Father, why are my children leaving the Church now that they're grown?

[Rosebud77]

My first neighbours when I came to Ireland… The son, who was late 20s, had stopped going to Mass and his mother was deeply upset.

They used to arrive separately at my door!

He told me that he had stopped going to mass because he saw folk coming out, then saying nasty things about others on the church steps.

I told his among other things not to “excommunicate” himself for the actions of others… And we talked oftenand deeply I was living very simply as a hermit even then.

He came to see me the night before he went t work abroad with his btother. Told me he was going to mass again, because of the way I lived and what we had talked about.

His father said something interesting too. He said that if they had been educated in maths as they were educated in religion ( older man; catholic Ireland) they would have beem geniuses.

I asked" But did it touch your hearts?" and he said no , A deeply significant thought.

Far far more than going to mass etc

PS I was then still Anglican

 

[PaulinVA]

The answer is not that parents did not properly indoctrinate (brainwash) their children. The simpke answer is that adult children have evaluated the Church and found it lacking.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Phemie]

Was there every any regular discussion of the faith, religion, scripture, or morality in everyday conversation in the family?

You know, my parents didn’t “talk/discuss” much of anything with us. They lived their faith, they didn’t discuss it. In our home there was a crucifix in every room, the Pope’s picture on the kitchen wall, St. Anthony of Padua on the wall of the landing heading upstairs, St. Gerard de Majella in Mom & Dad’s room, St. Maria Goretti in my room (though once I learned her story I decided I’d never become a saint).

AFA Mom & Dad were concerned, Scripture was not something to discuss. The priest told us what it meant in his sermon and nobody without a degree in the subject was fit to talk about it.

Morality? Well, we memorized the 10 commandments and the precepts of the Church from a young age and recited them every night along with our regular prayers. We were told what not to do, what was a sin, and were expected to listen.

It was pretty much the same way in my own home, minus the saints since I couldn’t stand anything on my walls – perhaps due to the overload in my childhood home. I probably “discussed” more with my kids but Scripture was not something I felt qualified to discuss either. I’m big on rules so the commandments and precepts were right up my alley. I did discuss morality with my kids, not that that stopped them from cohabiting and then marrying civilly.

My brothers didn’t just fall away, they think I’m insane for still being involved with the Church. One brother compares it to voodoo and went so far as to buy altar breads and pretend to go to Mass when Dad was ill. Instead, he’d go his office and bring back a “host” in a pyx and deceive Dad into thinking he was receiving Communion.

The other never fails to revile priests and everything he feels they stand for. Whenever they were home they would pretend to go to Mass so that Mom and Dad wouldn’t scold but then they’d simply head for the local coffee shop and wait for Mass to be over.

Both my brothers are godfather for my kids. Because we lived hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart at the time, I didn’t know their lack of faith or I’d never have asked them to assume that role in my kids’ lives.

 

[john1513]

You know, my parents didn’t “talk/discuss” much of anything with us. They lived their faith, they didn’t discuss it. In our home there was a crucifix in every room, the Pope’s picture on the kitchen wall, St. Anthony of Padua on the wall of the landing heading upstairs, St. Gerard de Majella in Mom & Dad’s room, St. Maria Goretti in my room (though once I learned her story I decided I’d never become a saint).

AFA Mom & Dad were concerned, Scripture was not something to discuss. The priest told us what it meant in his sermon and nobody without a degree in the subject was fit to talk about it.

Morality? Well, we memorized the 10 commandments and the precepts of the Church from a young age and recited them every night along with our regular prayers. We were told what not to do, what was a sin, and were expected to listen.

No offense but it sounds a little like living in a garage and pretending you’re a car. I can put 1,000 crosses on my wall and still be the worst person alive. Without building a faith: personal/family prayer (not just recitation), study, discussion, making the faith a part of your life, I don’t see how it can grow. If we talk about football or politics more than we talk about God, are we really Christians?

I probably “discussed” more with my kids but Scripture was not something I felt qualified to discuss either

By discussion I don’t mean explaining doctrines and defending theology (there are books that do that for you) but exploring what Scripture communicates to a person’s heart. There are not many ways to screw up discussing:

“I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.” (Jn 10:11)

or

If you are patient when you suffer for doing what is good,
this is a grace before God.
For to this you have been called,
because Christ also suffered for you,
leaving you an example that you should follow in his footsteps.
(1 Peter 2:20)

And what they mean to you or what they are telling you.

Or even easier, discussing what are you thankful for God today? How could you have served God better today? What do you want to ask Him for tomorrow?

I think these are the conversations that are not taking place in most Catholic families and contribute the exodus from the Church. Our families spend more time talking about the latest film than our own God.

 

[Kit15]

The answer is not that parents did not properly indoctrinate (brainwash) their children. The simple answer is that adult children have evaluated the Church and found it lacking.

I think that’s it in a nutshell.

At some point, adult children need to take furthering their Catholic education in their own hands. So many people don’t realize that there is so much more out there to learn besides what you were taught in school or CCD.

I mean…yeah we can talk about parents needing to create a much more Catholic home, but I wasn’t exactly raised with a daily rosary, saying grace before meals, or consistent discussion of the faith outside of answering questions and their track record of having children remaining in the faith is actually really good (Currently 5 out of 5 with one having temporarily “lapsed” for a few months to please an evangelical girlfriend).

For some reason when we were faced with the big “Why am I doing this anyway?!”, we decided to actually search for answers than simply assume there were none. Reading more books, especially about metaphysics, philosophy, and logic, really made a world of difference. At least for me.

 

[Phemie]

No offense but it sounds a little like living in a garage and pretending you’re a car. I can put 1,000 crosses on my wall and still be the worst person alive. Without building a faith: personal/family prayer (not just recitation), study, discussion, making the faith a part of your life, I don’t see how it can grow. If we talk about football or politics more than we talk about God, are we really Christians?

As I said, they didn’t talk much about anything. We were told what to do and what not to do to avoid offending God but beyond that…

By discussion I don’t mean explaining doctrines and defending theology (there are books that do that for you) but exploring what Scripture communicates to a person’s heart. There are not many ways to screw up discussing and what they mean to you or what they are telling you.

I could do that now. I didn’t learn the “What did you hear? What did it mean? How can you apply that to your life?” way of studying Scripture until I was 47.

But most of my childhood/teen years I was told The Bible was for the priest to interpret and he’d tell us what it meant and what to do about it. We were never encouraged to read the Bible and the very first time I did, around the age of 14, I opened it to Leviticus and read that. Colour me a confused teenager. Protestant kids had a world of advantage over us in that department.

Or even easier, discussing what are you thankful for God today? How could you have served God better today? What do you want to ask Him for tomorrow?

I think these are the conversations that are not taking place in most Catholic families and contribute the exodus from the Church. Our families spend more time talking about the latest film than our own God.

That is true, they’re not taking place because we as parents can’t model what we’ve never experienced. And we didn’t experience it because our parents hadn’t either.

 

[john1513]

That is true, they’re not taking place because we as parents can’t model what we’ve never experienced. And we didn’t experience it because our parents hadn’t either.

Very good point. Guess there is an important role for Church ministries after all As with anything, practice makes perfect.

Thank you for sharing about your family. I had a similar experience as yours but in high school and college I began to receive some serious faith education through retreats and ministries. I plan on continuing these for my sake as well as my young children’s. I know I can’t control if they leave the Church or not but I can give them the best possible faith experience and let them decide

 

[ItTakesAllKinds]

Late to the party, but thought I would share what I know about this topic. I was raised Catholic in a “very” Catholic family. My parents sacrificed to send me and my 6 siblings to Catholic schools K-12. They were great examples of the Catholic faith. Our family was very church centered, etc. When I went away to College I was finally free. I know that sounds terrible, but it is how I felt.

I was born a cynic. I just never believed anything about the Catholic faith… Sacraments, traditions, dogma, doctrine, etc. So many good people are Catholic. I really wish I could believe, but I can’t.

Life went on. I lived with my boyfriend for three years. We got married and will celebrate 30 years of so much happiness this summer. We have one daughter, by choice. I had her and knew I could never love another child as much as I love her and I knew how unfair that would be to subsequent children. We are a tight family. DD is now engaged to be married and we love our future son-in-law.

My point in sharing is that I don’t want Catholic parents to despair when their children “fall away” from the faith. The reality is that they probably didn’t fall; rather they are probably being true to themselves. Would you really want them to go through motions and pretend to be someone they aren’t?

My parents had a difficult time with me at first. They didn’t come to our (civil) wedding. Ironically, three of my siblings all got married in the Catholic Church. My husband and I are the only couple still standing. The rest are divorced.

Families are supposed to be about love. It is such a simple concept, with results of such impact. Love your children regardless of the path they take in life. Hold them close to your heart. Understand that maybe we aren’t all meant to take the same walk. Don’t ever feel like a failure because they don’t share your faith. We aren’t all the same. I have a strong moral compass and good values. They don’t always align with my parents’, and certainly often don’t align with the Catholic Church, but I have a good life. I believe I am learning the lessons in life I exist to learn. Most days, I believe in the possibility of a higher power. Life is great.

 

[john1513]

They were great examples of the Catholic faith. Our family was very church centered, etc.

What did this look like on a day-to-day or practical level?

 

[ItTakesAllKinds]

What did this look like on a day-to-day or practical level?

Evening, family rosary a couple times a week. Attended, as a complete family, all sacraments of all family members, parents belonged to CFM (Catholic Family Movement) and weekends were always devoted to participation in extra-curricular church activities as a family. Parents shared their Catholic beliefs as they pertained to any life lessons being taught. Mass every Sunday, even when we were on vacations or travelling. Very Catholic-centric. The catholic school we went to was small, with only about 180 students so we knew all of the families. I remember my mother always saying “As Catholics, we believe XYZ” often times. Parents were EM, brother was server, etc. This was back in the 70’s, so a lot of it was different from what I understand it is now. Anyhow, we were a large family. We all love eachother. My siblings are my best friends. I just don’t believe in most of Catholic Church teachings. I was catechized well. It isn’t that I don’t understand the teachings. I understand them better than most practicing Catholics. I just don’t believe.

 

[john1513]

Evening, family rosary a couple times a week. Attended, as a complete family, all sacraments of all family members, parents belonged to CFM (Catholic Family Movement) and weekends were always devoted to participation in extra-curricular church activities as a family. Parents shared their Catholic beliefs as they pertained to any life lessons being taught. Mass every Sunday, even when we were on vacations or travelling. Very Catholic-centric. The catholic school we went to was small, with only about 180 students so we knew all of the families. I remember my mother always saying “As Catholics, we believe XYZ” often times. Parents were EM, brother was server, etc. This was back in the 70’s, so a lot of it was different from what I understand it is now. Anyhow, we were a large family. We all love eachother. My siblings are my best friends. I just don’t believe in most of Catholic Church teachings. I was catechized well. It isn’t that I don’t understand the teachings. I understand them better than most practicing Catholics. I just don’t believe.

At any point did you ever feel that God particularly loved you, directly or through your parents, and did your family life contribute to or work against that?

 

[ItTakesAllKinds]

At any point did you ever feel that God particularly loved you, directly or through your parents, and did your family life contribute to or work against that?

Well I never really believed in God in the way the Catholic Church understands God to be. So, no, I never really felt like there was a mystical being who “loved” me. I definitely feel love, though, just not as described by Catholics. I know I have purpose and meaning and that my existence is intentional. I know that my existence is part of something bigger “than just me”. At least on the good days, which most days are. On a really bad day, I definitely question. I think that is healthy, though. I believe we are here to learn, and we learn through questioning. People may wonder why, as an agnostic, I am here at CAF. Usually I just read a lot. Many of my loved ones follow the Catholic teachings. Because I love them, I want to understand their lives (challenges, values, beliefs). That is why I am here. I will post, too, if I feel like I can add understanding or advice regarding the topic being discussed (although that isn’t often).

 

[john1513]

Well I never really believed in God in the way the Catholic Church understands God to be. So, no, I never really felt like there was a mystical being who “loved” me. I definitely feel love, though, just not as described by Catholics. I know I have purpose and meaning and that my existence is intentional. I know that my existence is part of something bigger “than just me”. At least on the good days, which most days are. On a really bad day, I definitely question. I think that is healthy, though. I believe we are here to learn, and we learn through questioning. People may wonder why, as an agnostic, I am here at CAF. Usually I just read a lot. Many of my loved ones follow the Catholic teachings. Because I love them, I want to understand their lives (challenges, values, beliefs). That is why I am here. I will post, too, if I feel like I can add understanding or advice regarding the topic being discussed (although that isn’t often).

It sounds like your parents never gave you compelling reasons to believe in the existence of God.

 

[ItTakesAllKinds]

It sounds like your parents never gave you compelling reasons to believe in the existence of God.

I definitely believe in a higher power. I just don’t call it “God”, and it is not the same God Catholics believe in. I find the Catholic concept of God to be troubling. I believe in truth, and I believe there is a lot that we, as humans, will never know. I think things are that way by design. So, as a child, I was taught all of these “truths” that I didn’t believe. As a child, it was hard to know where to draw the line between what is actually true and what is just a belief. I am very comfortable in saying “I don’t know, but this is what I choose to believe”. To me, it is honest. This tends to make many Catholics uncomfortable, in my experience. Anyhow, my parents did their best. I was a challenge for them. I quit believing in Santa Clause, on my own, by the time I was 4 years old. I was one of “those” kids. I questioned (still do) everything.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I definitely believe in a higher power. I just don’t call it “God”, and it is not the same God Catholics believe in. I find the Catholic concept of God to be troubling. I believe in truth, and I believe there is a lot that we, as humans, will never know. I think things are that way by design. So, as a child, I was taught all of these “truths” that I didn’t believe. As a child, it was hard to know where to draw the line between what is actually true and what is just a belief. I am very comfortable in saying “I don’t know, but this is what I choose to believe”. To me, it is honest. This tends to make many Catholics uncomfortable, in my experience. Anyhow, my parents did their best. I was a challenge for them. I quit believing in Santa Clause, on my own, by the time I was 4 years old. I was one of “those” kids. I questioned (still do) everything.

Will you p,ease expand on your comment re a Catholic concept of God? Thanks

 

[john1513]

Will you p,ease expand on your comment re a Catholic concept of God? Thanks

Good point. I guess I should have said parents never gave compelling reasons to believe in a “Catholic God”. I also realize I do not know what a “Catholic God” is in her mind compared to a higher power so if ItTakesAllKinds could define those it could help me see what exactly we’re talking about here.

I believe in truth, and I believe there is a lot that we, as humans, will never know. I think things are that way by design.

This sounds a lot like “Catholic God”

 

[ItTakesAllKinds]

Will you p,ease expand on your comment re a Catholic concept of God? Thanks/QUOTE

Perhaps I should have said “Christian” God, as opposed to “Catholic” God. Here is what I do/don’t believe (just the basics):

1. I don’t believe in sin.
2. I do believe in good and bad, relative to our lives as we live them.
3. I do believe in human nature
4. I don’t believe in a God who judges
5. I don’t believe in heaven or hell
6. I do believe in a positive afterlife of some sort
7. I believe in human purpose
8. I believe our spirits are more than just our bodies
9. I believe we are born with instincts related to morality
10. I believe we live to learn, but that we aren’t all here to learn the same lessons. In
    other words, our spirits aren’t all here for the same lessons.
11. I believe we are created to be imperfect. In other words, our imperfection IS the way we are supposed to be. Our imperfections, and the results of them, provide us with the situations we need to experience in order to learn the things we are supposed to learn (kindness, charity, empathy to name just a few)(also: I don’t believe in original sin).
12. Ultimately, I believe our existence is a mystery. If a God wanted us to know why we are here, specifically, it would be stamped on our foreheads. I think we are supposed to focus on the here and now, doing the best we can, and not worrying so much about what was or what will be.

As you can see, most of the items listed above don’t jive with Catholic or Christian teachings. The higher power I believe in has a hand in the things I listed. Therefore, the higher power I believe in is not a Catholic or Christian God. I am, what I believe most people from organized religions would consider, someone with new-age beliefs. I prefer not to label it that way. I am fluid. I like to hear about others beliefs and learn.

I hope that explains it and that it isn’t offensive to anyone. These are just my beliefs. I fully respect the right of every individual to believe in whatever faith they choose. We are all trying to get it right.

 

[john1513]

Jeanne S;14655052:

Here is what I do/don’t believe (just the basics)…

Well there’s actually a lot here that is Catholic. By that I mean when I ask people why they believe the things you listed, they usually very Catholic explanations. E.g.

I don’t believe in sin (not-Catholic): because we are created good (Catholic).

I don’t think God judges (not Catholic, sort of): because God would be loving (Catholic)

I don’t believe in heaven or hell (not Catholic): because God would be merciful and forgiving (Catholic)

I don’t mean to trivialize your beliefs but everything else you listed seems fairly Catholic. I would venture you mostly believe in a Catholic God (no offense) and your parents may have instilled some elements of this God in you (by being loving, forgiving, etc.). But I assume you don’t believe that Jesus is God since you didn’t list him? That could then explain your lack of belief in a Church (i.e. that God reveals himself through a human authority). Am I on the right track?

Also, are there any other sources besides your parents that you obtained your beliefs (e.g. popular thinkers, friends, culture, media, etc.)?

 

[Jeanne_S]

ItTakesAllKinds;14655152:

Well there’s actually a lot here that is Catholic. By that I mean when I ask people why they believe the things you listed, they usually very Catholic explanations. E.g.

I don’t believe in sin (not-Catholic): because we are created good (Catholic).

I don’t think God judges (not Catholic, sort of): because God would be loving (Catholic)

I don’t believe in heaven or hell (not Catholic): because God would be merciful and forgiving (Catholic)

I don’t mean to trivialize your beliefs but everything else you listed seems fairly Catholic. I would venture you mostly believe in a Catholic God (no offense) and your parents may have instilled some elements of this God in you (by being loving, forgiving, etc.). But I assume you don’t believe that Jesus is God since you didn’t list him? That could then explain your lack of belief in a Church (i.e. that God reveals himself through a human authority). Am I on the right track?

Also, are there any other sources besides your parents that you obtained your beliefs (e.g. popular thinkers, friends, culture, media, etc.)?

Wrong person.I am not the o e who posted this list!

 

[john1513]

Wrong person.I am not the o e who posted this list!

Good catch! I meant it for:

Here is what I do/don’t believe (just the basics):