Father, why are my children leaving the Church now that they're grown?

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john1513 said:
Well there’s actually a lot here that is Catholic. By that I mean when I ask people why they believe the things you listed, they usually very Catholic explanations. E.g.

I don’t believe in sin (not-Catholic): because we are created good (Catholic).

I don’t think God judges (not Catholic, sort of): because God would be loving (Catholic)

I don’t believe in heaven or hell (not Catholic): because God would be merciful and forgiving (Catholic)

I don’t mean to trivialize your beliefs but everything else you listed seems fairly Catholic. I would venture you mostly believe in a Catholic God (no offense) and your parents may have instilled some elements of this God in you (by being loving, forgiving, etc.). But I assume you don’t believe that Jesus is God since you didn’t list him? That could then explain your lack of belief in a Church (i.e. that God reveals himself through a human authority). Am I on the right track?

Also, are there any other sources besides your parents that you obtained your beliefs (e.g. popular thinkers, friends, culture, media, etc.)?
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There is no doubt many of my beliefs were formed on the basis of what I learned as a child. I think we all do that, don’t we? I would have to say I definitely don’t believe in a “Catholic” God, though. My God is a non-consequential God. By this, I mean a God who does not rule with consequences. I believe the only consequences we face are the ones we create for ourselves and eachother, as humans. I don’t believe in an afterlife that includes consequences for how we lived our lives on earth. I guess the biggest difference between me and Catholics is that I am at my most comfortable when saying “I don’t really know and neither does anyone else”. It is actually a source of comfort to me that we are created in a way that doesn’t require us to have an answer for everything. In answer to your question about where I obtained my beliefs, I am a free-thinker. I am like a sponge and I love soaking up ideas, thoughts, and knowledge from others. I don’t exclude any sources. I process it, and keep that which makes sense to me and discard the parts that don’t. I don’t discard anything just because it can’t be proven, though. A large part of my belief system is based on what I am able to imagine, as long as it gives me comfort and (of course) does no harm.

Also, you are correct, I don’t believe in Jesus as God.

Not sure if I answered your questions. Faith and religion are the deepest topics I think there are for us as humans!
 
ItTakesAllKinds said:
There is no doubt many of my beliefs were formed on the basis of what I learned as a child. I think we all do that, don’t we? I would have to say I definitely don’t believe in a “Catholic” God, though. My God is a non-consequential God. By this, I mean a God who does not rule with consequences. I believe the only consequences we face are the ones we create for ourselves. I don’t believe in an afterlife that includes consequences for how we lived our lives on earth. I guess the biggest difference between me and Catholics is that I am at my most comfortable when I say to myself, “I don’t know and neither does anyone else”. In answer to your question about where I obtained my beliefs, I am a free-thinker. I am like a sponge and I love soaking up ideas, thoughts, and knowledge from others. I don’t exclude any sources. I process it, and keep that which makes sense to me and discard the parts that don’t. I don’t discard anything just because it can’t be proven, though. A large part of my belief system is based on what I am able to imagine, as long as it gives me comfort and (of course) does no harm.

Not sure if I answered your questions. Faith and religion are the deepest topics I think there are for us as humans!
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Just curious,Whete does Jesus Christ fit into your beliefs?
 
Jeanne_S said:
Just curious,Whete does Jesus Christ fit into your beliefs?
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I am willing to give the writers of the bible the benefit of the doubt, and say that I am willing to believe that Jesus was a real person who existed. Possibly a very good person. Not a god, though, in my opinion. On the other hand, I am also willing to entertain the “dusty book of fairytales” view of the Bible. I think there are some good lessons written into the bible. I appreciate that the Bible is a historical document.
 
ItTakesAllKinds said:
I am willing to give the writers of the bible the benefit of the doubt, and say that I am willing to believe that Jesus was a real person who existed. Possibly a very good person. Not a god, though, in my opinion. On the other hand, I am also willing to entertain the “dusty book of fairytales” view of the Bible. I think there are some good lessons written into the bible. I appreciate that the Bible is a historical document.
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I am not going to preach to you as you have probably already heard much of what I would say.However,I think we may be very close in age,I was also a product of Carholic School,in the late fifties,through sixties.
My own faith journey after leaving home was spotty at best.I held onto a lot of warped ideas about God being a vengeful God who was “out to get me”.I rebelled some,to the extent I devolved into an Easter and Christmas Catholic.Then not even that for several years.Trying different Christian faiths.
I found my way back home twelve years ago when my husband entered the Catholic Church.I have been on a continuous faith learning journey ever since.One can never stop learning and hopefully through that process ,growing in love and appreciation for the beautiful gift Christ gave us in the Catholic Church.God is Love:pray:😊
 
Jeanne_S said:
I am not going to preach to you as you have probably already heard much of what I would say.However,I think we may be very close in age,I was also a product of Carholic School,in the late fifties,through sixties.
My own faith journey after leaving home was spotty at best.I held onto a lot of warped ideas about God being a vengeful God who was “out to get me”.I rebelled some,to the extent I devolved into an Easter and Christmas Catholic.Then not even that for several years.Trying different Christian faiths.
I found my way back home twelve years ago when my husband entered the Catholic Church.I have been on a continuous faith learning journey ever since.One can never stop learning and hopefully through that process ,growing in love and appreciation for the beautiful gift Christ gave us in the Catholic Church.God is Love:pray:😊
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Congratulations on finding your way to a faith that has helped you on your journey!
 
ItTakesAllKinds said:
There is no doubt many of my beliefs were formed on the basis of what I learned as a child. I think we all do that, don’t we? I would have to say I definitely don’t believe in a “Catholic” God, though. My God is a non-consequential God. By this, I mean a God who does not rule with consequences. I believe the only consequences we face are the ones we create for ourselves and eachother, as humans. I don’t believe in an afterlife that includes consequences for how we lived our lives on earth. I guess the biggest difference between me and Catholics is that I am at my most comfortable when saying “I don’t really know and neither does anyone else”. It is actually a source of comfort to me that we are created in a way that doesn’t require us to have an answer for everything. In answer to your question about where I obtained my beliefs, I am a free-thinker. I am like a sponge and I love soaking up ideas, thoughts, and knowledge from others. I don’t exclude any sources. I process it, and keep that which makes sense to me and discard the parts that don’t. I don’t discard anything just because it can’t be proven, though. A large part of my belief system is based on what I am able to imagine, as long as it gives me comfort and (of course) does no harm.

Also, you are correct, I don’t believe in Jesus as God.

Not sure if I answered your questions. Faith and religion are the deepest topics I think there are for us as humans!
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Very interesting! I think Jesus should be the hinging point for all Catholics and Christians. Therefore it sounds like your parents did not give you convincing reasons to believe in his resurrection as a historical fact?
 
john1513 said:
Very interesting! I think Jesus should be the hinging point for all Catholics and Christians. Therefore it sounds like your parents did not give you convincing reasons to believe in his resurrection as a historical fact?
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They taught me exactly as the Catholic Church teaches. I just don’t believe.
 
john1513 said:
So the answer is yes: you weren’t convinced by what they told you.
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Yes. But I always make the point it was nothing they did or didn’t do. For me, the evidence has just never been there. I also wasn’t convinced by any of the priests or nuns who taught me, or any of the many other Catholics who tried to convince me over the years.
 
It’s not impossible that a person raised by a good Catholic family just didn’t believe and decided to be true to themselves. I don’t think we should question the parents did their best.
 
ItTakesAllKinds said:
Yes. But I always make the point it was nothing they did or didn’t do. For me, the evidence has just never been there. I also wasn’t convinced by any of the priests or nuns who taught me, or any of the many other Catholics who tried to convince me over the years.
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Sorry, didn’t meant to implicate your parents so much. I guess I basically wanted to get to the reason “Why aren’t you Catholic?” and it sounds like evidence of Christs’ resurrection, which is probably common, which all Catholics should do a better job of understanding and explaining. I often thought people left the church because they didn’t pray enough or the benefits of faith weren’t shown. But maybe we aren’t taking as good of a rational approach to religion as we should.
 
ItTakesAllKinds said:
Jeanne S;14655052:
Will you p,ease expand on your comment re a Catholic concept of God? Thanks
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Perhaps I should have said “Christian” God, as opposed to “Catholic” God. Here is what I do/don’t believe (just the basics):
  1. I don’t believe in sin.
  2. I do believe in good and bad, relative to our lives as we live them.
  3. I do believe in human nature
  4. I don’t believe in a God who judges
  5. I don’t believe in heaven or hell
  6. I do believe in a positive afterlife of some sort
  7. I believe in human purpose
  8. I believe our spirits are more than just our bodies
  9. I believe we are born with instincts related to morality
  10. I believe we live to learn, but that we aren’t all here to learn the same lessons. In
    other words, our spirits aren’t all here for the same lessons.
  11. I believe we are created to be imperfect. In other words, our imperfection IS the way we are supposed to be. Our imperfections, and the results of them, provide us with the situations we need to experience in order to learn the things we are supposed to learn (kindness, charity, empathy to name just a few)(also: I don’t believe in original sin).
  12. Ultimately, I believe our existence is a mystery. If a God wanted us to know why we are here, specifically, it would be stamped on our foreheads. I think we are supposed to focus on the here and now, doing the best we can, and not worrying so much about what was or what will be.
As you can see, most of the items listed above don’t jive with Catholic or Christian teachings. The higher power I believe in has a hand in the things I listed. Therefore, the higher power I believe in is not a Catholic or Christian God. I am, what I believe most people from organized religions would consider, someone with new-age beliefs. I prefer not to label it that way. I am fluid. I like to hear about others beliefs and learn.

I hope that explains it and that it isn’t offensive to anyone. These are just my beliefs. I fully respect the right of every individual to believe in whatever faith they choose. We are all trying to get it right.
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I don’t mean to push on you too hard, so hopefully it doesn’t come off that way. I did not grow up religious but I shared some/most of these ideas myself, and then converted to Catholicism as a young adult, so this exchange has been really interesting to read in the thread.

One thing that occurs to me is that this conception of God and faith is very, very convenient for you - it means you don’t have to do much of anything, strive for anything, grow or change in any kind of meaningful way. You can kind of just float around aimlessly, and everyone’s groovy.

As I said, I used to share some of these beliefs, and one thing that began to convict me was that as much as I prided myself on being an intellectual, I was really engaging in some serious intellectual dishonesty because it suited me and my own faults. In another post you mention the “Jesus was a good guy” line of thinking, which I also used to think, but IMO that’s not an intellectually honest position. Jesus made claims about his divinity. He was either right, or he was wrong. If he was wrong, he’s either crazy or dangerous. There’s no room for “he was a good guy with some nice ideas.”

I’m just some lady on the Internet, so obviously you can dismiss what I’m saying if you want to. But maybe it’ll give you some food for thought, that your positions work out for you at least partially because they offer some convenience for you.
 
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