Fatima ? I'm beginning to doubt

[ialsop]

I have no doubts about Fatima or Lourdes but I am not comfortable with Medjugorje due to the Church’s skepticism. But as others have said you don’t have to believe in private revelations.

I agree.

BUT as much as I agree, be warned, Medjugorje. is a banned topic here, so we should probably putter that out

I think that while it is not a mortal sin to disbelieve in Fatima, it is really illogical to not. Unless of course you believe that it has some heresy or that it is scientifically disproved. But one can’t just say “This doesnt suit me, I dont believe it” That is relativism.

 

[KidCatholic1]

At the time of Fatima, women were clothed from their neck down to their ankles. It was much more difficult for a man to get aroused & rape a woman, than it is now with the women eagerly displaying themselves.
The young girls have their favorite movie & TV stars leading the way.

I would say the Blessed Mother was right!

I ask this. Are you more concerned about that or about war? I’m not saying that immodesty is a good thing, I see it too often, but isn’t war worse? FAR worse?

 

[roseofshannon]

I ask this. Are you more concerned about that or about war? I’m not saying that immodesty is a good thing, I see it too often, but isn’t war worse? FAR worse?

See what this kid from Syria has to say:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1009721

St. Dominic Savio would say, “Death, but not sin!”

 

[KidCatholic1]

See what this kid from Syria has to say:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1009721

St. Dominic Savio would say, “Death, but not sin!”

You bring a good point. Perhaps we should just try to avoid both sin, AND war? Seems reasonable to me.

 

[jediliz]

I ask this. Are you more concerned about that or about war? I’m not saying that immodesty is a good thing, I see it too often, but isn’t war worse? FAR worse?

I believe that Mary told the three little shepherd children that war was a PUNISHMENT for sin.

 

[ialsop]

I ask this. Are you more concerned about that or about war? I’m not saying that immodesty is a good thing, I see it too often, but isn’t war worse? FAR worse?

War is caused by sin, not the other way around.

 

[ialsop]

You bring a good point. Perhaps we should just try to avoid both sin, AND war? Seems reasonable to me.

Yes, that would be LOVELY

 

[LethalMouse]

Why can’t we all dress immodestly AND not fornicate like freaks?

I am just saying if virtuous women got their appeal on virtuous men wouldn’t eventually settle to be in the world thinking virtue comes at the price of ugly if the only example of virtue comes in the form of boring, offendable, snooty, and all around selfrighteousness… then it takes a literal act of God for a guy who isn’t boring to get that God isn’t a stick in the mud…

 

[Avdima]

What sends more people to hell? Lust or dying in war?

You have to understand how Our Lady talked about war. War was not seen as an ORIGINAL CAUSE of evil. Rather, it was the RESULT of evil and sins. Lust and sins begat war.

Don’t believe me(or rather, Mary, since it wasn’t my theory)?

**Look at the twentieth century.
The seeds begin to be sown of sexual immoral trends…and World War 1.
Immodesty and the roaring 20s come and pass…World War 2.
Sexual Revolution…Cold war, Vietnam, ect ect ect…
And now EVERYTHING has gone screwy on sexuality…and we have an age of perpetual terrorism, war, and violence. **

Let me just tell you. That boy in his bedroom addicted to pornography because he looks at clantly dressed girls with lustful intent is in WAY more danger than those boys who are were rotting on the Eastern Front.

But yet we are living in the least violent and most peaceful era in recorded history.

 

[CJMartel]

We cannot forget the fact that the miracle of the sun was witnessed by no less than 80,000 people from as far away as Lisbon. Also, following on the heels of the miracle of the sun, EVERYBODY who was at the grotto, who had stood in the pouring rain for hours, were completely stone dry, as if it had never rained. The Mother Mary has shown herself numerous times, and has never let us down, though I fail to pray the rosary as often as I should, I am always mindful of Mary’s incredible love for us.

 

[commenter]

You have to keep this, like all private revelations, in perspective. In the 1950s, when most Catholics had a fairly good grasp of doctrine, and there was far less confusion and people with agendas, it was ok for people to focus on private revelations - a little. The problem today is most Catholics are far less grounded in doctrine, and there are far more questionable sources of teaching. Mixing in private revelations in 2016 may be problematic unless a particular person, or group, is extraordinarily prepared with the basics, first.

My friend, who supports a very popular private devotion currently somewhat discouraged by the Church, complained that the “bar” has been raised too far. He said if Fatima or Lourdes happened in 2016, the Church under current, stricter guidelines likely would not approve them. Perhaps he is right in his assessment of the Church, but even if so, I think the Church has good reasons for considering the realities of the current situation.

 

[laocmo]

That it offends God greatly for women to expose their bodies immodestly, etc. is quite puzzling to me. If you believe your Bible, God created women and men completely naked. Some of you probably still feel uneasy about that. Your ancestors probably painted the Sistine Chapel figures to cover their nakedness. He made this nakedness very attractive to both parties. He wanted them to reproduce. Since they were novices, He might even have shown them ways to encourage each other to complete the sex act. That thought is probably pornographic to some of you. Their interaction most likely involved every act you might observe on the porn channel. Why would it offend God if, after Eve started wearing clothes, she decided to show a little cleavage to attract Adam?? Our sexual morals contain some very silly notions.

Again I’ll say, God complaining about women’s fashions at a time when millions of Germans and Russians were laying rotting in the fields of Europe seems banal and ludicrous. Someone mentioned in Fatima’s time women were covered from head to toe in clothing like that was a good thing. Women’s bodies were designed to cause arousal in men and also the other way around. Why not accept it and note that sexual needs must be controlled like all the other human appetites.

 

[multitude]

You have to understand how Our Lady talked about war. War was not seen as an ORIGINAL CAUSE of evil. Rather, it was the RESULT of evil and sins. Lust and sins begat war.

This really should be a lot more widely understood. Almost everything else flows, from sins of the flesh. If lust, sexual sin is left uncurbed, then it’s a fight for resources, whether it is justified or not. That’s where violence, war, comes in. And only a child, or someone willing to be as simple as a child, would understand that.

And it is why Our Lady will only ever appear to children or the childlike. She won’t appear to those who are unable to accept messages like that.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . Some of you probably still feel uneasy about that. . . He made this nakedness very attractive to both parties. . . Women’s bodies were designed to cause arousal in men and also the other way around. . .

You would feel quite uneasy seeing me naked; more than I would.
Not saying you would want to burn your eyes out to rid yourself of the mental image, I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be any arousal.
It wasn’t always that way, but that’s what transience is all about.

BTW - If you haven’t already, find yourself a spouse to love and stay away from porn; it rots the soul.

 

[jediliz]

is it a coincidence that the Bikini was invented in the years following WW2 (about 30 years after Fatima)? And it was a nude model who first showed it off (yes, a nude model). I learned this on a show called Mysteries at the Smithsonian. Now bikinis are designed to enhance the top of the woman and some of those are definitely showing more than they should.

War is a PUNISMENT for sin. I am not asking women to dress like the duggars…with long skirts down to their ankles and never be able to wear jeans or slacks. I am just asking for common sense. Mary was right to warn us that Fashions that are offensive to GOD (who SEES everything, remember!) would come around, The bikini, short shorts…the thong…wearing shorts in a way that it shows your undewear.

And yes, God did create our first parents naked. Then when they SINNED and their EYES were opened…they were ashamed of their nakedness and made clothes. Sorry, but I would not want to see people walking around naked now.

Remember, Mary also said more people go to Hell for sins of the Flesh than anything else.

 

[ialsop]

But yet we are living in the least violent and most peaceful era in recorded history.

Ummmmm…is that a joke?

Look at all the wars on all continents. Look at all the terrorist attacks in Europe and America and the Middle East and Russia and Africa and India and Asia.

Look at the violence in schools, shopping malls, and theaters.

Look at crime rates, domestic abuse rates, and look at our media and how all of it glorifies violence.

HOW is this a peaceful era?

Could you clarify that?

 

[ialsop]

Why can’t we all dress immodestly AND not fornicate like freaks?

I am just saying if virtuous women got their appeal on virtuous men wouldn’t eventually settle to be in the world thinking virtue comes at the price of ugly if the only example of virtue comes in the form of boring, offendable, snooty, and all around selfrighteousness… then it takes a literal act of God for a guy who isn’t boring to get that God isn’t a stick in the mud…

The problem is that you find no beauty in modestly, only in a person(man or woman) flaunting themselves to the whole public.

 

[WT1]

Ummmmm…is that a joke?

Look at all the wars on all continents. Look at all the terrorist attacks in Europe and America and the Middle East and Russia and Africa and India and Asia.

Look at the violence in schools, shopping malls, and theaters.

Look at crime rates, domestic abuse rates, and look at our media and how all of it glorifies violence.

HOW is this a peaceful era?

Could you clarify that?

Ancient history is full of brutality so when you compare it to today’s standards we are much more aware and defend human rights. You have to consider things like:

Slavery
Child labor
Women’s rights

 

[porthos11]

“This doesnt suit me, I dont believe it” That is relativism.

As a matter of fact, “this doesn’t suit me” is a perfectly fine reason for rejecting any private revelation. One can reject Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, whatever without sin. Private revelation binds no one, and while one can make the argument of prudence, what is not binding is not binding. It may not be wise to reject this or that private revelation especially if the message is good, but even to reject it would not be sinful. Difference in opinion is always permissible with private revelation, and if one rejects an apparition such as Fatima solely because one does not like it, he is most free to do so.

This DOES become a problem where divinely revealed public revelation is involved, then the relativism card gets played.

 

[ffg]

I don’t have a problem with the messages at Fatima.

They were toward ‘the good’.

It’s like some books in the Bible…

The reality of the details in the described situation is less important than the message, though the details can be interesting to dig into, if you miss the message, what good are the details?

If it informs to act toward a good, then it’s a good message.

As some have noted, there are a great many MORE souls hurting and dying - forever - out of sins of the flesh than those who lost their physical bodies in WWI.

At the time - perhaps this was not quite visible because of WWI - thus the message’s importance.

Take care,

Mike