Fatima, the work of satan?

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Tom317 said:
water;1779695:
I agree, the only one we should be siding with is Christ, and of when we support/love Mary we are siding with Christ.

Marian teachings and beliefs are very difficult for Protestants, they have years of counter-teaching that makes it a stumbling block for them, just as belief in the Real Presence is a stumbling bloack and so is the Crucified Christ.
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Your right Marian teaching and beliefs are very difficult for non catholics. But once again this thread is not about that. Its about fatima and whether or not it may be the works of satan.
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just noticed that the “quote” function of the forums application did not function correctly. 🙂 The previous post says it was posted by me. 🙂 it should’ve been Tom.
 
Tom317 said:
I agree, the only one we should be siding with is Christ, and of when we support/love Mary we are siding with Christ.

Marian teachings and beliefs are very difficult for Protestants, they have years of counter-teaching that makes it a stumbling block for them, just as belief in the Real Presence is a stumbling bloack and so is the Crucified Christ.
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you’re right. I don’t know when we are all going to agree to have one true church. Keep praying for it everyday.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Tom317;1779724:
Your right Marian teaching and beliefs are very difficult for non catholics. But once again this thread is not about that. Its about fatima and whether or not it may be the works of satan.
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Again, I know what the thread and your questions are about. I feel your questions have been vey thoroughly answered, yet Marian teachings and beliefs are very difficult for you. For Catholics Mary is simply a known quantity, for many Protestants Mary is a vessel and not much more.
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myfavoritmartin said:
Your right Marian teaching and beliefs are very difficult for non catholics. But once again this thread is not about that. Its about fatima and whether or not it may be the works of satan.
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Right. And you were trying to substantiate proof that it may be the works of satan. . .?

So far, your quotation regarding the instruction of the Blessed Mother regarding “devotion to my Immaculate Heart” has been answered. Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, reflects and magnifies devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. This is the foundational premise of all true Marian devotion.

Are there other concerns? Understandably, you have issues with the messenger, but do you have other concerns about the message?
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Antiochus iv in the 11th chapter of Daniel comes to mind…
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That’s stretching it a bit, you know what I’m talking about, satan the angel of light appearing to someone and announcing something in the future.

I could think of some modern day ones myself, but would break forum rules.
 
Tom317 said:
Too many variables. If the person is a Jew, then that applies well enough. If the person claims to be Christian, then they must believe in Christ. God reads our hearts and knows where we stand.
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just a quick question to tom or anyone else…slightly off topic but: do you believe that a jew can get to heaven without believing in jesus??
 
Simon, once again, the “three secrets” is nowhere near the totality of the Fatima message–and that’s what I was making the point about. Why not look up Fatima–actually, here is a link to EWTN (Eternal Word) and I linked right to the Marian apparitions. (You can check out the entirety–angelic apparitions, Marian apparitions, the message of Fatima, and the secrets, there).

ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/BVM.htm
 
Abira said:
just a quick question to tom or anyone else…slightly off topic but: do you believe that a jew can get to heaven without believing in jesus??
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No. I say that as the son of a Jew, who died 10 years ago. I would never say it lightly. Anyone who has heard the good news of Jesus Christ and rejected it cannot be saved. Jesus said this very clearly in John 3. Very few people in western society have not had the opportunity to hear who Jesus is. I know people will start on about invincible ignorance etc. But half my family is Jewish and I love them. I loved my dad and we were very close. But my only hope is that on his death bed, while he lay unable to speak he repented and turned to Christ who had been preached to him. If he continued to reject him I have no comfort that He could be saved while rejecting Christ. But I am not God and I hope in His mercy. But I acknowledge that mercy must be received through Christ alone. One simply cannot reject it and be saved. Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or Atheist or whoever. No Christ. No Heaven.

Mel
 
Tom317 said:
Yes.
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Jesus answer:

*John 3:16-18:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.*
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Really?
Wow am I confused… Just when I think I am grasping the entirety of Catholocism.
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First, as a Bible believing Christian you know that God made promises to His Chosen people the Jews. Those promises are irrevocable. God does not break His promises.

Second, Jews continue to be God’s chosen people, Christians are the graftet into family of God, we are adopted children.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Really?
Wow am I confused… Just when I think I am grasping the entirety of Catholocism.
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This is the type of thing that makes other devout Christians go nuts, doesn’t it? Christ himself says in no uncertain terms “no” and yet some Catholics say yes. How can one be a Christian and deny salvation is through Christ alone which neccesarily means one must believe in Him. He could not have been more clear on this. In fact the message is one of the clearest in the New Testament.

Some of you Catholics need to get something this foundational straight. Jesus said no one come to the Father but by Him. And He says we do that first by believing in Him. This is Christianity 101.
 
ok so to tom and the others who believe a jew can be saved without christ…

is the fact that they are jewish significant to your answer…or can anyone be saved without christ?

secondly, what is your belief in more detail as it differs from mine.

Take care,

S x
 
Melchior said:
Jesus answer:

*John 3:16-18:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God*.
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Yes, yet one must take the totality of Scripture into account and not just one passage. God’s promises are rock solid, He does not go back on His promises.
 
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