Fatima, the work of satan?

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Tom317 said:
I disagree strongly. Please get the book, read it and then we can discuss on a different thread, should be fun. 🙂
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I would not waste my money. Schoeman’s ideas have been soundly refuted by orthodox Catholics and theologians. I have read enough of the ideas and excperts to know it is the same nonsense I have heard before. It is easily refuted with scripture and tradition. Even the reviews at Amazon show how unorthodox his ideas are. You can disagree with me strongly if you want but you are also disagreeing with the Apostles. We can discuss this in a differen thread if you would like but these ideas are novel and not widely supported. I think it would be fruitless as John 3:18 alone refutes it soundly. I trust Jesus on the matter.
 
I hope I am not going off the topic, but my question for myfavoritmartin and others are about Guatalope, Do you think that is a work of God?

Thanks!
 
Melchior said:
I would not waste my money. Schoeman’s ideas have been soundly refuted by orthodox Catholics and theologians. I have read enough of the ideas and excperts to know it is the same nonsense I have heard before. It is easily refuted with scripture and tradition. Even the reviews at Amazon show how unorthodox his ideas are. You can disagree with me strongly if you want but you are also disagreeing with the Apostles. We can discuss this in a differen thread if you would like but these ideas are novel and not widely supported. I think it would be fruitless as John 3:18 alone refutes it soundly. I trust Jesus on the matter.
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I am so thrilled to see you have an open mind and that you can now say you know everything. I am no weak person of Scripture myself. I suppose when people get stuck in their own views, they often refuse to listen to others.

BTW, I am guessing you are not Catholic?
 
Tom317 said:
Nonsense, the Ark did not house God, yet they still venerated it because it contained the Word of God in the form of the tablets of the Commandments.

So, were they wrong?
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Exo 25:8
8 "Then have them** make a sanctuary for me**, and I will dwell among them. 9 Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you.
 
water said:
I hope I am not going off the topic, but my question for myfavoritmartin and others are about Guatalope, Do you think that is a work of God?

Thanks!
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Not read up on this. Sorry.
 
Hi Tom,

I believe that both myself and mel are Anglican… but your views are not only non-Catholic but non-Christian in teaching… so the fact of whether he’s Catholic or not is irrelevent…

I think if you can make a scriptural arguament (and it would have to be for protestants lol :)) then start a new thread as even though I don’t agree with you I’d like to hear your thoughts too.

Take care, S x
 
Tom317 said:
You seem to miss the most important part of that message:

"…God wants…"

It does not say “…Mary wants…”
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Thanks Tom, both you and I have pointed that out, think myfavouritemartin is flogging a dead horse.

Don’t think any answer will suffice at this stage.
 
Martin,

We are saved by the death and resurrection of Jesus on the Cross. HOW we appropriate that salvation is what is in dispute among the different Christian traditions. Our prayers for other people can help them appropriate the salvation that only Jesus can offer. Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is meant to point us to her Son. It is not meant to deify or cause us to worship Mary.

Why would you have a problem with that?

Peace,
Jacobaer
 
Melchior said:
Yes. But I think it gets twisted beyond recongnition these days into a pseudo-universalism. The theif on the Cross is a great example of Baptism of desire (or blood) He believed but did not have the opportunity to be baptized but he did embrace Christ in faith. All three baptisms cannot save those who reject Christ. It is far worse to be water baptized and to reject Christ as that is apostasy. There is not baptism of desire if one does not desire Christ.
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OK, now you’re narrowing it down to people that actually REJECT Christ. You did not say that in your previous question. As you know, Catholics teach that people who reject Christ do not fit under any of these three categories.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Exo 25:8
8 "Then have them** make a sanctuary for me**, and I will dwell among them. 9 Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you.
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Yes, and God did dwell among them. But don’t you agree that the Holy Spirit left the Ark and the Temple prior to the Babylonian invasion?

Back to the original question on this topic, which I think he was trying to get to - The Holy of Holies was still venerated, even at the time of Jesus, and God did not dwell there for 100’s of years.
 
Tom317 said:
I am so thrilled to see you have an open mind and that you can now say you know everything. I am no weak person of Scripture myself. I suppose when people get stuck in their own views, they often refuse to listen to others.

BTW, I am guessing you are not Catholic?
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So if I disagree with you my mind is closed? I am half Jewish I am pretty certain my reasons for studying this very issue for years is alot more personal and has been alot more painful for me than you can imagine. You are simply wrong and I have shown you how. Whether I am Catholic or not has not bearing since what you are espousing is not Catholic teaching. I never said I know everything but I do no about this issue since it menas something to me personally, as a Hebrew Christian. Remember there is no Jew or Greek in Christ. That’s also scriptural.

We are going to have to agree to disagree, but please don’t call me close minded because I disagree with you. I have been a Christian (Catholic even!) and a Jew my whole life. I don’t need to be educated on the relationship between my peoples.
 
NotWorthy said:
OK, now you’re narrowing it down to people that actually REJECT Christ. You did not say that in your previous question. As you know, Catholics teach that people who reject Christ do not fit under any of these three categories.
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I apologize. I thought I made that point clear from the get go when I quoted Jesus on the matter. I was not narrowing it down as I assumed that was what we were talking about when the poster who asked the question. I understood her (him?) to be referring to Jews who rejected Christ since there are few Jews today who are isolated from Christians and the basic Christian beliefs. Not believing implies rejection. If she said Jews who never heard of Jesus then I may have answered with some qualifiers. Mea culpa.
 
**You see that a person is justified

BY WHAT HE DOES

and

NOT BY FAITH ALONE
James 2:24 New International Version, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1984

And it was another MYFAVORITMARTIN’s idea

to add the word “alone” while he was translating Rom 3:28,

and to take out some books from the CHRISTIAN CANON…

And that seems to me the works of

THE BEAUTIFUL ANGEL OF LIGHTS…**
 
marko_pasa said:
**You see that a person is justified

BY WHAT HE DOES

and

NOT BY FAITH ALONE
James 2:24 New International Version, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1984

And it was another MYFAVORITMARTIN’s idea

to add the word “alone” while he was translating Rom 3:28,

and to take out some books from the CHRISTIAN CANON…

And that seems to me the works of

THE BEAUTIFUL ANGEL OF LIGHTS…**
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No need to yell.

Plus using “alone” in the German tranaslation was the “only” way to make it fit linguistically and contextually it does not alter the textual meaning one ioda. “Alone” linguistically contrasts to “works of the law”. So this is a just a (I really hate using this in internet discussion - but I must) strawman.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
And the devotion to the ark disapated, and the ark slid off to oblivion.
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Are you sure of this? As I mentioned, the Holy of Holies was still venerated. And the Ark did not just slide off into oblivion. I understand that Jeremiah took the Ark and hid it (I may be mistaken, but this is detailed in one of the Deuterocanonical Books). Jewish Tradition said the Ark would be found when the Messiah returned.

Boy, they didn’t know how right they were!!! (but that’s another thread) 🙂
 
Melchior said:
I apologize. I thought I made that point clear from the get go when I quoted Jesus on the matter. I was not narrowing it down as I assumed that was what we were talking about when the poster who asked the question. I understood her (him?) to be referring to Jews who rejected Christ since there are few Jews today who are isolated from Christians and the basic Christian beliefs. Not believing implies rejection. If she said Jews who never heard of Jesus then I may have answered with some qualifiers. Mea culpa.
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No, if that’s the case, then the fault is mine.

As I mentioned earlier, with all the insults and accusations flying around (and I apologize for those with a less than Christian attitude…) it’s hard to keep up with this thread.

I’m sorry about that.
 
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