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mikeledes
Guest
Every private revelation has to be compared with Divine Revelation. It it contradicts it, then it cannot be of God.
God Bless,
Michael
God Bless,
Michael
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Tom317
Guest
She is my Mother, she is the Mother of God, she was chosen by God before all time to be His Mother, how can I not have a love and devotion for her?
J
JaneFrances
Guest
Might it benefit this discussion to determine the MEANING of “devotion to my Immaculate Heart”?
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LilyM
Guest
Aah, but a proper devotion to Mary never leads one away from Christ. The absolute contrary - the stronger my love for the mother, the more my love grows for him as well.
If God trusted Mary to bring him safely into humanity then who are we to not trust her to bring us safely back to him?
(which I think is a paraphrase of Alphonsus Liguori)
W
water
Guest
It surely is a good idea; however, for many non-Catholics who come to the board to discuss, many are to find false in the Catholic belief not to get to know its real truth.
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mikeledes
Guest
If it leads you away from Christ, it most certainly would be of Satan. Thankfully, devotion to Mary does not. I ask for her prayers precisely because she is the mother of Jesus Christ. Secondly, the requests I make to her I know will be forwarded to Christ. Thirdly, my relationship with Jesus Christ does not exclude having a relationship with others, whether it be Christians in heaven like Mary or Christians on earth like yourself. Talking to you, respecting you, and asking for your prayers does not in any way take away from the Sovereignty of God or my relationship with Him. Now if my relationship with you or Mary takes precedence over my relatonship with God, then there is a serious problem. I love Mary as a mother and I love you as a fellow Christian and a human being. I love God more than Mary and you.
God Bless,
Michael
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tabcom
Guest
**I don’t believe in Fatima. Can I find Scripture to support my disbelief?
Did not Jesus say . . .
Mat 24:23
If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
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False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.
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Behold, I have told it to you beforehand.
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So if they say to you, ‘He is in the desert,’ do not go out there; if they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
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For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
If no one is going to have a private vision of Christ until the end of all things, how is that Mary is going to appear?
No…it’s not going to happen.
Hence, your proposal that it was not Mary but Satan that appeared to those young children with vivid imagination is a valid one.**
Did not Jesus say . . .
Mat 24:23
If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
24
False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.
25
Behold, I have told it to you beforehand.
26
So if they say to you, ‘He is in the desert,’ do not go out there; if they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
27
For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
If no one is going to have a private vision of Christ until the end of all things, how is that Mary is going to appear?
No…it’s not going to happen.
Hence, your proposal that it was not Mary but Satan that appeared to those young children with vivid imagination is a valid one.**
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Now if you have very specific things that trouble you about the messages from Fatima (and we’ve already addressed your concern in the one specific message you had trouble with), please bring them on.
But cherrypicking Scripture with “angel of light” and attempting to cast doubt by implying that Fatima was a work of the devil, on the basis of one verse that isn’t even taken in context. . .that’s speculation, and offensive speculation at that.
Please don’t cast such aspersions on the Mother of My Lord–and my dear Mother in heaven–for as Christ is My brother, then Mary is my mother as well.
But cherrypicking Scripture with “angel of light” and attempting to cast doubt by implying that Fatima was a work of the devil, on the basis of one verse that isn’t even taken in context. . .that’s speculation, and offensive speculation at that.
Please don’t cast such aspersions on the Mother of My Lord–and my dear Mother in heaven–for as Christ is My brother, then Mary is my mother as well.
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tabcom
Guest
**
Please help me understand what prayer means to you.**
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mikeledes
Guest
The passage is talking about the appearance of false messiahs, not a PRIVATE vision of Christ. I emphasize private as opposed to the very public Second Coming of Christ as Judge. I remind you that Saint Paul and Saint Stephen both had a vision of Christ after he ascended into heaven.
God Bless,
michael
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Tom317
Guest
No-one claims that Mary is the Messiah, nor does Mary make that claim. You are placing words on the visitation that are not there.
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LilyM
Guest
Not to mention St John. And Revelation isn’t all prophecy - Christ had a private message for John - ‘behold I am coming soon’.
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mikeledes
Guest
A prayer, in its most basic definition, is a request, a plea, a petition. Prayer directed to God is an act of worship. When Catholics “pray” to Mary or a saint, we mean that we are supplicating them for their prayers, not that we are worshipping them as God.
God Bless,
michael
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I did bring up time and location discrepencies… also.
I’ll read more on the visions right now so you won’t accuse me of cherry picking, though I was merely using them as an example.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Ah, but tab, the Messiah has not appeared.
Mary is not a ‘false prophet’ nor is she a Messiah.
Since Mary was the means through which Christ came into this world, and since He Himself is not coming again until He comes to judge us all, and since we also know from Scriptures that there will be signs–and not all of them will be bad signs (“look at the fig tree. When it spreads its leaves you know that summer is near”. That is a positive sign, nothing there about false prophets, right??)–then why would not Mary be once again the means through which Christ comes?
Again, this is ‘private revelation’ and we are not forced to believe. But since we know that the Holy Spirit is still our guard and guide, and since we know that visions --truthful visions–can still occur, and since we know that nothing said in this particular vision contradicted Scripture or Tradition, and in fact that as always one is drawn closer to Christ through Mary. . .then those of us who believe in the message because we believe in God are not succumbing to ‘vivid imagination’ or false beliefs.
After all, there are plenty of false beliefs around and have been since the apostles. They have always been shown to be false by their bad fruit.
Show me some ‘bad fruit’ from Fatima–that is attributable directly to something bad that was said at Fatima by Mary.
Mary is not a ‘false prophet’ nor is she a Messiah.
Since Mary was the means through which Christ came into this world, and since He Himself is not coming again until He comes to judge us all, and since we also know from Scriptures that there will be signs–and not all of them will be bad signs (“look at the fig tree. When it spreads its leaves you know that summer is near”. That is a positive sign, nothing there about false prophets, right??)–then why would not Mary be once again the means through which Christ comes?
Again, this is ‘private revelation’ and we are not forced to believe. But since we know that the Holy Spirit is still our guard and guide, and since we know that visions --truthful visions–can still occur, and since we know that nothing said in this particular vision contradicted Scripture or Tradition, and in fact that as always one is drawn closer to Christ through Mary. . .then those of us who believe in the message because we believe in God are not succumbing to ‘vivid imagination’ or false beliefs.
After all, there are plenty of false beliefs around and have been since the apostles. They have always been shown to be false by their bad fruit.
Show me some ‘bad fruit’ from Fatima–that is attributable directly to something bad that was said at Fatima by Mary.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
I’m getting fed up with Protestants saying that anything the Catholic Church say about Mary is Satan. It kinda reminds when the Pharisee called Jesus’ work Satan.
I think Satan is in their heart when they bash Mary. Jesus does not like it when they insult his Mother.
I think Satan is in their heart when they bash Mary. Jesus does not like it when they insult his Mother.
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Wolseley
Guest
Taken in isolation and subject to the inevitable misinterpretation that such isolation would provide, the above quoted passage would indeed be suspect.
Taken, however, within the proper context of everything else the Church teaches about Mary, there is nothing in the above that proves to be a problem.
It’s just like reading Scripture: you can’t take one isolated verse and build it up into a major doctrine.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I hope not.
In comparison the more I love my wifes mother the more I love my wife…head scratcher!!!
Last person I’d be quoting, I personally think**(my opinion)** he is one of the most prominent Heretics of ChristianityIf God trusted Mary to bring him safely into humanity then who are we to not trust her to bring us safely back to him?
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Mannyfit75
Guest
You views are more of a heretic than he is.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I am clearly not bashing Mary. Knock it off, and read through the post. I am critiqueing a vision, which we are warned to test spirits repeatedly in the old and new testament.
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