Fatima, the work of satan?

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Georgess said:
’ Love your God, ( our Lord ) , with all your heart, all your might , all your strength ’ …( as the one perfect creature did …)
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Please,please,please tell me the one perfect creature you speak of is Christ…, though by the way you phrased it I am guessing you meant Mary… That being the case you are wrong wrong wrong…
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Please,please,please tell me the one perfect creature you speak of is Christ…, though by the way you phrased it I am guessing you meant Mary… That being the case you are wrong wrong wrong…
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You might be wrong instead. Jesus is not creature but creator. Therefore, the perfect creature who created by the Creator is the one the other poster meant. 🙂

Speaking of Creator and Creature, the Creator allowed to have the Creature to be pregnant with, this Creature must be the Most Blessed Creature. 😃
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Please,please,please tell me the one perfect creature you speak of is Christ…, though by the way you phrased it I am guessing you meant Mary… That being the case you are wrong wrong wrong…
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Err… you think of Christ as a creature? Mary is a “creature” because she is a created being. She is perfect, because God willed her to be full of His grace. Christ is not a creature or a created being. He is eternally begotten of the Father. He is perfect, to be sure, but not a creature. Perhaps your more focused on the word “perfect”. As to whether Mary is perfect, I’m sure you are aware that we believe that is scripturally proven with the angel’s greeting to Mary at the Annunciation. However, I understand that you disagree and this is not the thread to start a debate on that issue.

Good thread, very thought provoking…as long as we all can keep it charitible. 🙂
 
myfavoritmartin said:
went to vatican and I apologize here it is…
To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, **many souls will be saved **and there will be peace

Same thing different words, sorry I usually double check these things. It coould be a translation discrepency.
link
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
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So what is the quote in question? Is it this?
“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI.
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myfavoritmartin said:
“God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants you to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart for the Heart of Jesus wants my Immaculate Heart to be venerated by His side.
I promise salvation to those who embrace it and their souls would be loved by God as the flowers placed by myself adorning His throne.”

When I read this type of stuff I can’t help but wonder how many of you think its Mary and how many the work of satan?

2nd corinthians talks of satan disguised as a beautiful angel.
Just curious…
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sigh

If you want to read about a REAL Satanic apparition…try Medujuorge (or however you spell it)
 
Here’s something else from the same website I think that adequately describes Catholic teacihng on Mary’s “Immaculate Heart”:
According to Matthew 5:8, the “immaculate heart” is a heart which, with God’s grace, has come to perfect interior unity and therefore “sees God”. To be “devoted” to the Immaculate Heart of Mary means therefore to embrace this attitude of heart, which makes the fiat—“your will be done”—the defining centre of one’s whole life. It might be objected that we should not place a human being between ourselves and Christ. But then we remember that Paul did not hesitate to say to his communities: “imitate me” (1 Cor 4:16; Phil 3:17; 1 Th 1:6; 2 Th 3:7, 9). In the Apostle they could see concretely what it meant to follow Christ. But from whom might we better learn in every age than from the Mother of the Lord?
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  			Originally Posted by **LilyM** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1776647#post1776647) 				
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If God trusted Mary to bring him safely into humanity then who are we to not trust her to bring us safely back to him? 😃 (which I think is a paraphrase of Alphonsus Liguori)*
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myfavoritmartin said:
Last person I’d be quoting, I personally think**(my opinion)** he is one of the most prominent Heretics of Christianity
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Two things:
  1. Why do only Non-Catholics call him prominent? I’ve only heard of Saint Alphonsus Liguori when defending Catholics’ Marian beliefs.
  2. Have you actually read any of his works, or have you just read snippets of his writings that tend to go “overboard” in his love for Mary? I ask this because he has written some very good works that show a deep, deep love for Christ. If you read a significant part of his writings, I think you’d find that his love of Mary is far exceeded by his love for God.
 
water said:
You might be wrong instead. Jesus is not creature but creator. Therefore, the perfect creature who created by the Creator is the one the other poster meant. 🙂

Speaking of Creator and Creature, the Creator allowed to have the Creature to be pregnant with, this Creature must be the Most Blessed Creature. 😃
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You are not denying the 2 natures of Christ are you?
 
myfavoritmartin said:
went to vatican and I apologize here it is…
To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, **many souls will be saved **and there will be peace

Same thing different words, sorry I usually double check these things. It coould be a translation discrepency.
link
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
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Not at all the same thing.

She says what someone might have said when discussing the poor state of storm preparedness in New Orleans prior to Hurricane Katrina and suggesting repairs to the levees or what have you …

‘If you do what I say (make the repairs) may people will be saved (from flooding).’

Would you have taken someone who said that as acting entirely on their own authority and insinuating that they themselves will be doing the saving and are in charge of the matter? Absolutely not.

They are merely claiming a certain amount of special knowledge. Mary certainly has the right to claim the same, as she is the most intimate of all human creatures with God. None of the rest of us have physically borne God in our wombs or allowed him to take on our flesh.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
Err… you think of Christ as a creature? Mary is a “creature” because she is a created being. She is perfect, because God willed her to be full of His grace. Christ is not a creature or a created being. He is eternally begotten of the Father. He is perfect, to be sure, but not a creature. Perhaps your more focused on the word “perfect”. As to whether Mary is perfect, I’m sure you are aware that we believe that is scripturally proven with the angel’s greeting to Mary at the Annunciation. However, I understand that you disagree and this is not the thread to start a debate on that issue.

Good thread, very thought provoking…as long as we all can keep it charitible. 🙂
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I disagree, Christ is a creature in that he has 2 nature fully man and fully devine.
Its good when it stays in debate format.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
I disagree, Christ is a creature in that he has 2 nature fully man and fully devine.
Its good when it stays in debate format.
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Neither of which are “created” in the sense that an ordinary human being is created - both of which are begotten.
 
NotWorthy said:
So what is the quote in question? Is it this?
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It really is not an issue of the quotes, rather the context of the vision and whether or not it should be blindly accepted or compared to scripture for its viableness. My question is this John… The church says you dont have to agree or follow the vision that being the case do you feel its a real vision or a work of satan see 2 cor. quoted above and numerous times for a scriptural example.
Am I making sense?
 
water said:
Of course not - this makes me ask you that you are denying Virgin Mary is the Mother of Jesus and God?
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Blessed among women Jesus mother Mary is the virgin mother of Jesus of Nazereth. Our Lord and Saviour. How awesome an honor.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
It really is not an issue of the quotes, rather the context of the vision and whether or not it should be blindly accepted or compared to scripture for its viableness. My question is this John… The church says you dont have to agree or follow the vision that being the case do you feel its a real vision or a work of satan see 2 cor. quoted above and numerous times for a scriptural example.
Am I making sense?
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Something that should be pointed out is that the Church has unofficially declared Fatima true.
  1. Why would the Church lead its people astray by saying something is ‘worthy of belief’ when believing in false things is bad for the flock?
  2. Though Fatima has not been infallibly ratified…the children whom it has appeared to have been cannonized. Which is an infallible statement. Thus unoficially supporting Fatima.
  3. When the Church almost entirely as a whole venerates Our Lady under the title of Our Lady of Fatima…its pretty much clear what the Church’s real stance is.
So anything else is just a formality.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Blessed among women Jesus mother Mary is the virgin mother of Jesus of Nazereth. Our Lord and Saviour. How awesome an honor.
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That is an honor indeed - she is the mother of God, and the Catholics pay their respect to Virgin Mary but never in our mind we worship you or think she will give us salvation as many other non-Catholic Christians think.
 
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NotWorthy:
  1. Have you actually read any of his works, or have you just read snippets of his writings that tend to go “overboard” in his love for Mary? I ask this because he has written some very good works that show a deep, deep love for Christ. If you read a significant part of his writings, I think you’d find that his love of Mary is far exceeded by his love for God.
    I’ve read his Glories of Mary in its entirety…I found it very very troublesome, as should you.
    Peace
 
myfavoritmartin said:
I’ve read his Glories of Mary in its entirety…I found it very very troublesome, as should you.
Peace
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Many people comment on that book, dont worry about it.

The language used back then is not neccesarily the same used today.

for example…worship was even used as a term for veneration.
 
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