Fatima, the work of satan?

[myfavoritmartin]

Twisting the words again. goodnight.

Thanks for the admission!

 

[Mintaka]

You’re right that I didn’t give you a good link. Here you go.

worldfatima.com/english/history/angel.html
worldfatima.com/english/history/ourlady.html

World Apostolate of Fatima is run by the folks who used to be known as the Blue Army; they’ve been around since 1947 here in the US but they changed their name so as not to seem scary. It’s a good source, though not quite as complete as I’d like.

I do appreciate the difficulties for a non-Catholic, or recent Catholic, of researching these things. The Blue Army used to put out a little booklet that told the whole Fatima story in about 50 pages, with all the quotes there were, and was available for free or a quarter in most parishes. Nowadays all the books seem to be 400 pages long – and they’re not free!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Your post’s have cleaned up a lot of what I’ve read, nonetheless in light of these A stearn warning why would your church approve these? Especially when then dance along the cloudy lines of how the scriptures tell us to test spirits… Truly are you guys okay with this?
Lets read the scripture below again

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds
of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing.
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So you’re basically saying that because Fatima had an apparition of Mary that the apparition wasn’t really Mary because she didn’t come right out and quote from the KJV to your satisfaction as you read the documents translated from the original Portuguese, Latin, etc.

And because you don’t feel that she said exactly what the KJV said in a passage that is cherrypicked, you assume the apparition is a satan. . .

despite the fact that not only did Mary give us a prayer which invokes the name of Jesus and prays to Him for salvation, not only was there the sacred communion administered which is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, and that every single word is never framed at “I’m Mary, do this for me” but as "God wishes me to relay this and My Son asks this. . ."and that absolutely nothing contradicts Catholic Christian (the original and best) teaching, and that souls have actually been brought to salvation (Lucia, Jacinta and Francisca to name just 3) because of this?

No, you don’t have to ‘believe’ in Fatima in that you don’t have to say any extra prayers or anything. However, since the church has found nothing ‘unacceptable’ to Catholic teaching, if you are Catholic, you may not choose to believe Fatima satanic. It’s not an “either-or” here. We know that the church has decided that there was something good here, but since it is a private revelation, it is not required to believe unless you can accept the grace to believe.

If you choose to believe, you must believe it to be an authentic miracle. If you don’t chose, you must simply grant that you yourself cannot yet find the grace to accept it. . .and that’s that.

So you’ll find good Catholics who don’t, can’t, accept Fatima–yet. Maybe ever. They won’t be found ‘unworthy of salvation’ if they can’t. . .(once again proving there is no ‘satan’ as that evil spirit would have commanded or demanded something not taught by the faith be accepted or threatened damnation if there was no belief).

I’m sure you think you’re being charitable trying to save us from satan. Personally I think he has most certainly been busy among people. But I think he’s far more likely to use his evil spirit to divide people, to stir up not an apparition calling on us to pray to God but to. . .perhaps. . .stir up a prideful spirit in a person and causing that person to cast aspersions, sow doubts and discord, and deny the Holy Spirit. I think he does that far more often, and sadly far more successfully, then we might know.

 

[NotWorthy]

You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. In order to save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart.** If you do what I tell you, many souls will be saved, there will be peace**

The manner the vision is giving to be saved doesn’t even jive with faith/works doctrines you guys follow… One person can not save another…Period.
This contradicts the saving message of our Lord and Saviour.
That is a false gospel.

So why does Jesus exhort us to pray for one another? Why are the prayers of the righteous powerful indeed? Why are the saints offering up our prayers in heaven?

Is all this contradictory to the saving message of our Lord?

 

[Philthy]

It seems sadly that you feel our scriptural instructions, you know the inerrant inspired word of God…blows

1 John 4
Test the Spirits
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Confession time maybe?

Ok, so you simply ignore the fact that the NT epistles dont all meet your test but continue to promote your interpretation of this verse? That’s OK - I understand. But think about this: does this verse sound like a admonition to INTERACT with spirits and question them, “Do you believe that Jesus has come in the flesh?” or do you simply infer that if the message that the spirit brings doesnt include “Jesus has come in the flesh” then the entire message is not only suspect, but satanic? The more I read it, its an admonition to actively test by interaction the spirit in question by asking it if it confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh. It makes me wonder if there were all sorts of people with messages from spirits and it was getting confusing what to believe and what not to believe and this protocol was put forth for testing. It doesnt sound like it was meant to be applied in the manner you are applying it, and the fact that books were added to the bible by non-Apostolic authors without “confessing that Jesus came in the flesh” seems to strongly support my point. You havent responded to this reasonable observation.

 

[KathleenElsie]

All the truth can be found in scripture…
2 tim 3:15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
14 But continue thou in the things that thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learn them;
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

A stearn warning
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds
of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
11 That all maybe judged who have not believed the truth but have consented to the iniquity.
12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
14 There fore brethen, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, wheather by word or our epistle.
16 Exhort your hearts and confirm you in every good work and word.

Another one I like is

2 Thessalonians ch3 vs6

Now we command you, brethen, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received of us.

DOUAY-RHEIMS QUOTES IN RED

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Another one I like is

2 Thessalonians ch3 vs6

Now we command you, brethen, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received of us.

DOUAY-RHEIMS QUOTES IN RED

Tradition is always good when it doesn’t contradict scripture… Good post but it has zero significance to this post.

Giving praise based on things learned in a spiritual vision with inaccurate dates and no scriptual basis could very clearly be deemed a brother not walking upright! so thank you for this…
Lets all take note.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Tradition is always good when it doesn’t contradict scripture… Good post but it has zero significance to this post.

Giving praise based on things learned in a spiritual vision with inaccurate dates and no scriptural basis could very clearly be deemed a brother not walking upright! so thank you for this…
Lets all take note.

Fatima was approved within the accepted form by the Holy Catholic Church. It falls under the tradition in its approval.

No where does Fatima contradict scripture. Many follow and accept it but it is not required of a Catholic to do so.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Fatima was approved within the accepted form by the Holy Catholic Church. It falls under the tradition in its approval.

No where does Fatima contradict scripture. Many follow and accept it but it is not required of a Catholic to do so.

If I show you its contradictions would you hear?
His sheep will hear his voice!

Here is an Idea show us how it reinforces scripture. Or follows scripture, please…

 

[myfavoritmartin]

In the vision the Mary image stated…
"Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to my immaculate heart.

This making me known comment that completely goes against…
2 Corinthians 11:3

3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your **sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
**

 

[water]

In the vision the Mary image stated…
"Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to my immaculate heart.

This making me known comment that completely goes against…
2 Corinthians 11:3

3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

“Honor your father and your mother” –
I accept that Virgin Mary is not only the Mother of Jesus, our God, but also our mother. To honor her is one of the most beautiful thing that we do.

Our devotion to her, not worship, leads us come closer to Jesus.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

“Honor your father and your mother” –
I accept that Virgin Mary is not only the Mother of Jesus, our God, but also our mother. To honor her is one of the most beautiful thing that we do.

Our devotion to her, not worship, leads us come closer to Jesus.

Satan would never know this! he would never try and decieve in this manner?
… Why not a vision of Christ himself?

 

[Mintaka]

“Blessed art thou among women.”
“All generations shall call me blessed.”
“Behold thy mother.”
“Honor thy father and thy mother.”

Hmmm. So if most of the world doesn’t honor Mary very much, Jesus would be totally uninterested in telling the world to honor her. 'Cause he’s not a good Jewish son or anything like that, who’d give honor and hospitality to all his close relations and friends, and especially his mother. And God would be totally uninterested in honoring the woman who helped unmake Eve’s mistakes, even though that affected the entire destiny of His beloved creation, the human race, and helped His plan of salvation go into motion.

Abraham, yeah. Sarah who laughed in His face, yeah. Jacob who was a big conman louse, he’s somebody, he’s Israel. David and Solomon who screwed up all kinds of ways, sure. Rahab. Tamar. 'Cause they’re all special.

Mary, no. She’s just His mom. She just changed His diapers and wept under His cross and did everything He could ask, and a lot He didn’t. No reason to honor her at all.

 

[water]

Satan would never know this! he would never try and decieve in this manner?
… Why not a vision of Christ himself?

and sure…I suppose satan could move the Sun too to make thousands of people believe and turn their lives to love God more and more.

Let him try! He would loose at his own game for many people turning their lives back to Jesus!

One can never honor their parents enough.

 

[KathleenElsie]

In the vision the Mary image stated…
"Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to my immaculate heart. Devotion is not the same as worship.

This making me known comment that completely goes against…
2 Corinthians 11:3

3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

vs4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Christ whom we have not preached, or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received: or another gospel, which you have not received; you might well bear with him. This admonishment is about the taking of money by false profits while true profits did not take a wage. The question here was Was working for free making the members of these churches think less of the true profits.?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

“Blessed art thou among women.”
“All generations shall call me blessed.”
“Behold thy mother.”
“Honor thy father and thy mother.”

Hmmm. So if most of the world doesn’t honor Mary very much, Jesus would be totally uninterested in telling the world to honor her. 'Cause he’s not a good Jewish son or anything like that, who’d give honor and hospitality to all his close relations and friends, and especially his mother. And God would be totally uninterested in honoring the woman who helped unmake Eve’s mistakes, even though that affected the entire destiny of His beloved creation, the human race, and helped His plan of salvation go into motion.

Abraham, yeah. Sarah who laughed in His face, yeah. Jacob who was a big conman louse, he’s somebody, he’s Israel. David and Solomon who screwed up all kinds of ways, sure. Rahab. Tamar. 'Cause they’re all special.

Mary, no. She’s just His mom. She just changed His diapers and wept under His cross and did everything He could ask, and a lot He didn’t. No reason to honor her at all.

The same zeal to be spoken of for Jesus? sadly i’ve not seen it. And this post is about a vision or a spirit only… , but its about Mary, when will you guys get it. The whole mariology bit requires these so called visions because there is no biblical support for the extremeness in which it has been carried to.
The fatima visions supports…
Purgatory—YEP
Mariology----YEP
Magisterium----YEP

SCRIPTURE----- SADLY NO!!!

 

[water]

Purgatory—YEP
Mariology----YEP
Magisterium----YEP

SCRIPTURE----- SADLY NO!!!

didn’t you say “Purgatory — YEP”?
It is in the scripture.

 

[Eden]

Satan would never know this! he would never try and decieve in this manner?
… Why not a vision of Christ himself?

In the Miracle of the Sun, the children did see a vision of Christ. While everyone else saw a whirling sun, the children saw visions of the Holy Family, Jesus, Joseph and Mary. They also saw Our Lord carrying His cross with His Mother, Our Lady of Sorrows.

Also, Lucia (one of the Fatima children) said that in 1925 the Blessed Mother and the Christ Child appeared to her in a vision, as did just the Christ Child in 1926.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

and sure…I suppose satan could move the Sun too to make thousands of people believe and turn their lives to love God more and more.

Let him try! He would loose at his own game for many people turning their lives back to Jesus!

One can never honor their parents enough.

If your parents come between you and Christ it is Christ you should honor…

Matthew 10:37

37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;