Fatima, the work of satan?

[myfavoritmartin]

THE MESSAGES OF FATIMA ARE NOT DOCTRINE!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Peel the scales from your eyes my friend! Now go back and read what I typed…
I am not as stupid as you think I am!

 

[JonathanKinsman]

"God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants you to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart

for the Heart of Jesus wants my Immaculate Heart to be venerated by His side.
I promise salvation to those who embrace it and their souls would be loved by God as the flowers placed by myself adorning His throne."

When I read this type of stuff I can’t help but wonder how many of you think its Mary and how many the work of satan?

2nd corinthians talks of satan disguised as a beautiful angel.
Just curious…

SIMON: This is your first alleged Fatima statement. No source is referenced.

Your boldfaced, underlined phrase is what you and those who take umbrage with you expanding on it (Mary promising salvation!) is the crux of this thread’s discussion.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

And how many things that you believe are not backed or vaguely backed by Holy Scriptures - Sunday worship just for starters!

All, to the best of my knowledge… start a thread, it’ll give a fundy a chance to defend himself w/o y’all thinkin i’m attackin ya’.
yee haw!

 

[JonathanKinsman]

went to vatican and I apologize here it is…

To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, **many souls will be saved **

SIMON: Here is the change you admit to when asked a few times by a Catholic poster. Your boldfaced phrase is completely different from the Original Post (OP).

 

[LilyM]

Peel the scales from your eyes my friend! Now go back and read what I typed…
I am not as stupid as you think I am!

I read what you said - you said the messages of Fatima promote doctrine that isn’t backed or vaguely backed by Scripture. Fatima doesn’t promote any doctrine of any kind at all!!!

What IS backed more than vaguely by Scripture is that the Church, the Apostles and their successors, have been given the power to bind and loose heaven. Nothing about binding and loosing heaven only when what they say is already written in Scripture.

So you’ve entirely got a hold of the wrong end of the stick my friend.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

SIMON: This is your first alleged Fatima statement. No source is referenced.

Your boldfaced, underlined phrase is what you and those who take umbrage with you expanding on it (Mary promising salvation!) is the crux of this thread’s discussion.

JK, I apologized and ask u guys to forgive me for paraphrasing, it said souls would be saved, the links have been attached numerous times… Did I take a big leap maybe even so souls will be saved?
Peace

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Agreed I could have stated my points/questions more clearly.

The potential to be satanic isn’t of my opinion rather doing what we are directed to do by innerrant scripture; test spirits.
My point all along is this is there anything in this vision that Mentions our Saviour or affirms he was of true flesh and blood as we are told to check in 1 john?
My stance is no…

SIMON: Here is your response to Philthy, who might have missed your apology, yet your answer changes ONCE MORE to that old Protestant red herring: Sola Scriptura.

You chide others for straying off topic (look at your ark comments, among others) yet you continue to stray away from your original point that Mary was claiming to be the equal to Jesus for purposes of salvation (contra to Catholic, thus Christian, dogma and teaching).

Here you pull out that old satanic metaphor (your threads are fond of that one) which tells me more about what is really bothering you other than your (purported) Marian gripe.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

I don’t think any have been clearly answered in one post take these points you mention and post the post number you think answers it. I’ll answer

what you ask me…
1.
2.
3. No claim that Christ is God in flesh, per the scripture i quoted about testing spirits

1 and 2 are for you.

SIMON: Your reply to JaneFrances is now quoting DANCING BEAR (you really liked his outta-left-field comment about preaching ‘Jesus in the flesh!’) as if your boldfaced comment for her number 3 question (about Fatima, your OP, my friend) was missing the point.

The scripture you JUMPED to about ‘testing spirits’ had NOTHING to do with your original attack on Fatima, private revelations as APPROVED by the Church, Marian devotion (NOT worship which is ONLY for GOD) and all things Catholic.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

SIMON: Here is your response to Philthy, who might have missed your apology, yet your answer changes ONCE MORE to that old Protestant red herring: Sola Scriptura.

You chide others for straying off topic (look at your ark comments, among others) yet you continue to stray away from your original point that Mary was claiming to be the equal to Jesus for purposes of salvation (contra to Catholic, thus Christian, dogma and teaching).

Here you pull out that old satanic metaphor (your threads are fond of that one) which tells me more about what is really bothering you other than your (purported) Marian gripe.

Jonathan,
You seem intelligent, It is not I whom has strayed my friend! I’ve but a couple handful of thoughts that are repeatededly ignored throughout this whole thread… I am 1 against many armed with the Word of God as my sword, when I use it, you guys claim I am using the heretical sola scriptura, but you know that is a false claim as SS is only that we whom practice it test everything against scripture… you are trying to pull away from the truth of this thread…

 

[RobbyS]

I agree this is creepy. How can Mary, who I love mind you, promise Salvation. She is not God and what “she” proposes is another means of salvation. There has to be a better explanation that “the church approved it”. Does that means she approves this part where “Mary” promises salvation is we do this specific thing?

You deserve a better explanation than the scorn you have received. This is a legitimate question and seems very problematic. I would think Catholics would want to explain something so odd sounding to a Protestant enquirer.

Mel

The promise is contingent on an acceptance of the same kind of commitment to Christ that Mary made. In Luke 11:27-28, It says: As he says this, a woman raised her voice and said to him, “blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts you sucked! " But he said. Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it.” As Lumen Gentium, a document of the Vatican Council, says, this is not rejecting the praise that the good women gave to his mother. He accepts it and goes further explaining how Mary is blessed because of her fiat (Lk 1:38) “Let it be done.”

We believe that Mary was the first and most faithful of Christians.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

According to Ave Marie inst… Mary asked the children to come here being(CovadaIria) for 6 straight months, on the 13th of each at the same hour…

The 4th apparition occurred 8-15

SIMON: Here is where the real MYFAVORITEMARTIN shows his antennae. You are now comparing Catholics (through an attack on a child’s recollection written over 4 decades later!) about a DATE???!!

Gee, what about the discrepancy in St Luke’s account in Acts about St Paul’s journeys (it doesn’t mesh with his epistles) and the different conversion stories???

Let’s hear a Sola Scriptura Protestant address these textual problems.

Simon, I mean this with all sincerity and in a charitable manner: you don’t know what you’re talking about. You avoid answering direct questions and you pick and choose from others (usually on another topic) when you do “answer.”

Finally, since you are so concerned about the inerrancy of the Bible, did our God “boo-booed” by giving us TWO different endings to the Gospel of St Mark??? Did our God “boo-booed” with references in 1 Kings 11:41 to a book called Acts of Solomon and Chronicles of Solomon and then didn’t leave us a codex or scroll?? Or the Acts of Jeroboam in 14:19???

And I certainly hope you don’t have any tattoos in clear violation of Leviticus 19:28!!

 

[GoldenArrow]

I’m lazy and I’ve not yet read all four pages. Forgive me if this has already been covered.

** Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin** “God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants you to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart for the Heart of Jesus wants my Immaculate Heart to be venerated by His side. I promise salvation to those who embrace it and their souls would be loved by God as the flowers placed by myself adorning His throne.”

I have an explanation for this Fatima message.

To understand Fatima one must also understand the Sacred Heart of Jesus devotion.

The Sacred Heart of Jesus devotion was given by Our Lord to a couple of Catholic mystics long, long ago. (I forget who at the moment). The Sacred Heart is represented iconographically as a bleeding heart, pierced on its side by the Spear of Destiny. It is shown with a crown of thorns. In the center of the heart is a burning flame, representing the Holy Spirit. The Cross is shown in the center of the flame, representing the suffering of Christ.

Now, the Church teaches that Jesus is the New Adam. Mary is the New Eve. Jesus was formed from the flesh of Mary. He veiled His Divinity from the flesh of her womb, and so, given that Christ has no earthly father, all of Christ is formed from the flesh of Mary.

Now, remember the prophecy of Simeon to Mary, “A sword shall pierce your heart.”

The Immaculate Heart of Mary is a heart usually represented iconographically wreathed in lilies, representing purity. In the center of her heart is a flame, representing her suffering at witnessing her Son’s passion. There are usually seven swords shown piercing the heart of the Virgin, representing the seven major events of her life that gave her the greatest sorrow. (There is even a devotion in the Church to the Seven Sorrows).

Since the flesh of Jesus and the flesh of Mary are one, then also, the hearts are one. That is, the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary are twin Hearts.

The flame that burns within these hearts can also be a metaphoric representation of the Human Will of Jesus and the Will of Mary united to the Will of the Father through the possession of the Holy Spirit within the soul. That is, the Indwelling.

Think of the two Hearts: the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary as being Twin Hearts, the flames burning within each heart being perfectly united to the Will of the Father. That is, Jesus always does the Will of the Father. Mary, also, always does the Will of the Father.

So, if Mary promises salvation, it is as if Jesus had promised salvation. If you have true devotion to the Mother, you give honor to the Son by imitating Him in his hidden life in Nazareth, when Jesus took the form of a slave and obeyed and honored the will of his earthly parents, Mary and Joseph. Jesus knew the Ten Commandments. He would’ve obeyed them to the letter. He obeyed and honored both Joseph and Mary in His hidden life.

In obeying and honoring Jesus’s earthly parents, we are imitating the life of Jesus Christ.

The one person who had the most intimate and personal relationship with Jesus Christ was Mary. If you want a relationship with Christ, the person to look to as an example is none other than the Blessed Virgin Mary.

In honoring the heart of the mother, you honor the Heart of the Son.

God Bless!

 

[GoldenArrow]

The explanation of the Sacred Heart of Jesus devotion from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

newadvent.org/cathen/07163a.htm

The explanation of the Immaculate Heart of Mary devotion from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

newadvent.org/cathen/07168a.htm

God Bless!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

SIMON: Here is where the real MYFAVORITEMARTIN shows his antennae.

my antenae as you call it… is finely tuned to what Christ provided me… The Holy Spirit… Thanks for asking

You are now comparing Catholics (through an attack on a child’s recollection written over 4 decades later!) about a DATE???!!

Shame Jon, I was actually using Catholic sources, not the Children themselves… thanks for trying to paint a bad picture of me. I forgive you.

Gee, what about the discrepancy in St Luke’s account in Acts about St Paul’s journeys (it doesn’t mesh with his epistles) and the different conversion stories???

If you think the scriptures are errant you contradict your church!

Let’s hear a Sola Scriptura Protestant address these textual problems.

Finally, since you are so concerned about the inerrancy of the Bible, did our God “boo-booed” by giving us TWO different endings to the Gospel of St Mark??? Did our God “boo-booed” with references in 1 Kings 11:41 to a book called Acts of Solomon and Chronicles of Solomon and then didn’t leave us a codex or scroll?? Or the Acts of Jeroboam in 14:19???

Tell me bout the errancy in these scriptures and I’ll tell you you errant in your interpretation, seriously YOUR church agrees scripture is inerrant what are you argueing about?

And I certainly hope you don’t have any tattoos in clear violation of Leviticus 19:28!!

WOW, where is this from?
Feeling guilty?
course I don’t.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Jonathan,

You seem intelligent, It is not I whom has strayed my friend! I’ve but a couple handful of thoughts that are repeatededly ignored throughout this whole thread… I am 1 against many armed with the Word of God as my sword, when I use it, you guys claim I am using the heretical sola scriptura, but you know that is a false claim as SS is only that we whom practice it test everything against scripture… you are trying to pull away from the truth of this thread…

SIMON: **“I am 1 against many armed with the Word of God as my sword,…” **God bless you, Simon, and keep you safe. However, when the word ‘scripture’ is mentioned in the NT, it refers to the Jewish Tanakh (what we call the Hebrew Bible) written in Greek (what we call the Septuagint).

When Jesus is quoted, His quotes are from the Septuagint.

Your Protestant ‘Textus Receptus’ is from the Jewish rabbis who met at Jamnia in 70 AD to retranslate the Septuagint into Hebrew. The Tanakh has specific changes in it (notably in Isaiah) to avoid any connection with Jesus as the promised Messiah from God for His people and for all nations.

The RSV that modern mainstream Protestants use is translated from Catholic (Vatican Codex, for one) manuscripts. Including the Septuagint (verified by the so-called ‘Dead Sea Scrolls’ dated to the 1st century AD) and the Vulgate (for the Psalms) from St Jerome’s translation of Aramaic, Hebrew (all now lost) and Greek manuscripts.

We Catholics use the RSV-CE (that’s Catholic Edition because the canon had MORE books than Protestants cared for).

So, Simon, when you throw SS and other recent American Protestant doctrines around, be sure you are quoting in context (what is being said to whom for what purpose) and remember that the bible you claim as your ‘sword of God’ was discerned and collected by the Catholic Church in 382 AD as OFFICIAL scripture of the Church (not Eastern Orthodox, not Protestant: these did not exist prior to 1054 and 1541 AD).

Pax Christi

And keep reading, lectio divina my friend, and praying.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Since the flesh of Jesus and the flesh of Mary are one, then also, the hearts are one. That is, the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary are twin Hearts.

WHAT? Their Hearts flesh or blood are not ONE, where do you guys come up with that? When a baby is in a stomach it is embrionic fluid it is not blood they don’t share flesh and they surely don’t share hearts… What kind of theology are you guys pushing? seriously?

 

[Mannyfit75]

WHAT? Their Hearts flesh or blood are not ONE, where do you guys come up with that? When a baby is in a stomach it is embrionic fluid it is not blood they don’t share flesh and they surely don’t share hearts… What kind of theology are you guys pushing? seriously?

Think and slow down. I think they mean that Jesus got his body from his biological mother, Mary. Jesus didn’t get his body from out of nothing. He got it from a woman.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

SIMON: **“I am 1 against many armed with the Word of God as my sword,…” **God bless you, Simon, and keep you safe. However, when the word ‘scripture’ is mentioned in the NT, it refers to the Jewish Tanakh (what we call the Hebrew Bible) written in Greek (what we call the Septuagint).

When Jesus is quoted, His quotes are from the Septuagint.

Your Protestant ‘Textus Receptus’ is from the Jewish rabbis who met at Jamnia in 70 AD to retranslate the Septuagint into Hebrew. The Tanakh has specific changes in it (notably in Isaiah) to avoid any connection with Jesus as the promised Messiah from God for His people and for all nations.

The RSV that modern mainstream Protestants use is translated from Catholic (Vatican Codex, for one) manuscripts. Including the Septuagint (verified by the so-called ‘Dead Sea Scrolls’ dated to the 1st century AD) and the Vulgate (for the Psalms) from St Jerome’s translation of Aramaic, Hebrew (all now lost) and Greek manuscripts.

We Catholics use the RSV-CE (that’s Catholic Edition because the canon had MORE books than Protestants cared for).

So, Simon, when you throw SS and other recent American Protestant doctrines around, be sure you are quoting in context (what is being said to whom for what purpose) and remember that the bible you claim as your ‘sword of God’ was discerned and collected by the Catholic Church in 382 AD as OFFICIAL scripture of the Church (not Eastern Orthodox, not Protestant: these did not exist prior to 1054 and 1541 AD).

Pax Christi

And keep reading, lectio divina my friend, and praying.

off the subject you claimed I was relying on SS to answer questions( I haven’t), it seems your using it to label me so you can avoid them… look at your post you haven’t dealt with anything of context other than attacking me…Very Charitable.
incidently the vulgate as far as accuracy is as pathetic as the KJV in translation.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Think and slow down. I think they mean that Jesus got his body from his biological mother, Mary. Jesus didn’t get his body from out of nothing. He got it from a woman.

HMMM. Read it again, insinuation…

 

[Mannyfit75]

HMMM. Read it again, insinuation…

I did and I think its has a symbolic meaning like marriage. “The two shall become one flesh.” The writings of Sacred Heart of Jesus and Mary is similar.

When a man and woman marry, they do become one flesh (though not physically).