Fatima, the work of satan?

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lets read more thoroughly…

You obviously haven’t read this thread nearly as well, I corrected myself! and asked to be forgiven for mistating it as I was going off of Ratzingers translation and not the other 20 of them.Many would be saved was the actual term…for the phrase I was speaking of.----> Souls Saved —Salvation.
do you see the connection here?
Cardinal Ratzingers translation??!!

SIMON: Double Whoa!! Are you implying our Holy Father mistranslated something? Are you imputing a nefarious intent on his part?

You’re not getting off the hook on this one, friend.

Explain this: what translation and where did you find it??

If this is a fraud, then you owe everyone on this thread who is Catholic a very sincere mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
 
IMHO (and I might be banned for this) but I do not think Simon wants to learn just bash. It makes for long protracred threads that get no place.

God Bless
 
SIMON: Whoa! You’re beginning to sound like the Catholics who have answered you on this thread! What happened to the ‘test spirits’ proof?
I debunked it by demonstrating that some Scripture doesnt pass his test and he has since ignored me!
jk:
More importantly: why the new Tag Line? Are you implying (again) something untoward and uncharitable about Leo X ?

What is your source for this quotation?

Did you know fabula (Latin) means ‘narration, story, or account’ not the fable of American English (my American Heritage gives as its third definition: “A falsehood. A lie.”)
Oh sure, he knew that…:rolleyes:
jk:
I hope you weren’t Catholic bashing with this new signature quote.
How could you even suspect such a thing? 😉
 
Cardinal Ratzingers translation??!!

SIMON: Double Whoa!! Are you implying our Holy Father mistranslated something? Are you imputing a nefarious intent on his part?

You’re not getting off the hook on this one, friend.

Explain this: what translation and where did you find it??

If this is a fraud, then you owe everyone on this thread who is Catholic a very sincere mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
i’VE POSTED THE LINK 5 TIMES YOU DIG IT UP.
 
Cardinal Ratzingers translation??!!

SIMON: Double Whoa!! Are you implying our Holy Father mistranslated something? Are you imputing a nefarious intent on his part?

You’re not getting off the hook on this one, friend.

Explain this: what translation and where did you find it??

If this is a fraud, then you owe everyone on this thread who is Catholic a very sincere mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
JK, what part of I’ve apologized don’t you get?
 
The fruits of Fatima: Penance, conversion, prayer to Jesus for salvation, increased devotion to Jesus through Mary, love of neighbor, and greater obedience in humility to the will of God.

Penance. This is called for in the message. Those who listen and believe have followed the call to do penance.

Conversion. Have you yourself not seen on these forums alone that many have come to be converted to the Faith?

Prayer to Jesus for salvation: Directly in the message which gives us the Fatima prayer. I pray this several times daily as do thousands of others.

Increased devotion to Jesus through Mary: the devotion is something that has been part of Christianity from its beginning, though you refuse to accept anything as “christian” apparently unless it came after approximately AD 1500 and ‘protests’ Catholicism. The increase in devotion is there because any knowledge and any thought about Mary increases one’s thoughts and knowledge of Christ. She leads us to him. . .not to her. It’s as if she were a beautiful crown on His Head. Our eyes might be drawn to the crown, because the splendour of God is too bright for us but the crown, being a creation, is not. But once one sees the crown one is not focused on the crown but on the splendour below. What we would not have dared to look at ourselves becomes our focus. . .through that crown (Mary). What we would not have dared to contemplate–God made man–became our Savior, through being born of Mary. She is worthy of being a crown for Him (as His Mother), He alone is worthy of adoration as King of Kings.

Don’t you see from my posts alone that everything that Mary does is because of what God has willed for her (he is eternal and unchanging) and that every single thing reflects back only to God? Makes us more aware of God? More loving of God, more focused on God, etc.?

Love of neighbor: Well, I’m still here trying, out of love for you, to steer you toward the right direction (God) and away from the false scrupolosity that keeps you from giving God His FULL honor and glory.

Greater obediency in humility to the will of God. Just as Mary always did, I model myself (being only a poor human creature) on the one human creature that God created without sin and made the mother of His Son, yet who herself remains meek and humble, only reflecting “Him” and only doing HIS WILL.

It is ‘humbling’ to be reminded not from God Himself (because that would really make us proud, that we were so important that God Himself deigned to come to speak to us even after sending Christ to us), but from the meek and nearly unknown WOMAN who bore His Son, that we 'like sheep have gone astray" and need to submit our necks to the yoke of obedience to God. Obviously it sticks in some people’s craw to think that ‘some creature’ (and not that person himself or herself) speaks for God and that he or she isn’t important enough to get “God’s” attention.
 
More importantly: why the new Tag Line? Are you implying (again) something untoward and uncharitable about Leo X ?

.
Quantum nobis nostrisque ea de Christo fabula profuerit, satis est omnibus saeculis notum. The words, said to have been spoken to Cardinal Bembo, were noted down for the first time by Bale in his Pageant of the Popes, ed. 1574, p. 179. Bale, bishop of Ossory, had been a Carmelite.
 
IMHO (and I might be banned for this) but I do not think Simon wants to learn just bash. It makes for long protracred threads that get no place.

God Bless
Let’s pretend that you are right, just for argument’s sake. I recommend that you treat Simon with all intents that he is coming here to learn.

If you think that among Protestants, that Simon alone share these thoughts about Mary and Fatima, then you are wrong. There are others on that may have questions, and they are following this thread to truly get answers.

If our good friend Simon is just baiting you, then your answers are not for him, but for any of the others who are reading this thread to learn the truth. If Simon is not baiting you, then your efforts are for him and them.

As I look at our front screen, CA Forums show that there are 140 members logged in **AND 349 GUESTS!!! **

Act as if those 349 guests are following this thread and everybody wins!
 
She leads us to him. . .not to her. It’s as if she were a beautiful crown on His Head. Our eyes might be drawn to the crown, because the splendour of God is too bright for us but the crown, being a creation, is not. But once one sees the crown one is not focused on the crown but on the splendour below. What we would not have dared to look at ourselves becomes our focus. . .through that crown (Mary). What we would not have dared to contemplate–God made man–became our Savior, through being born of Mary. She is worthy of being a crown for Him (as His Mother), He alone is worthy of adoration as King of Kings.
What a beautiful analogy! Thank you very much 🙂
 
As far as Mary drawing us to Mary:

I did a poll on these Forums (which were lost during the crash), asking people that go to daily mass AND say the rosary each day, “Which came first?”.

80-90% of the respondents said that they said the rosary daily, and then they began attending daily mass.

One could surmise, from this highly (un)scientific poll, that Mary continues to draw us toward Jesus. This is how it was with me.
 
Let’s pretend that you are right, just for argument’s sake. I recommend that you treat Simon with all intents that he is coming here to learn.

If you think that among Protestants, that Simon alone share these thoughts about Mary and Fatima, then you are wrong. There are others on that may have questions, and they are following this thread to truly get answers.

If our good friend Simon is just baiting you, then your answers are not for him, but for any of the others who are reading this thread to learn the truth. If Simon is not baiting you, then your efforts are for him and them.

As I look at our front screen, CA Forums show that there are 140 members logged in **AND 349 GUESTS!!! **

Act as if those 349 guests are following this thread and everybody wins!
My friend John is much more levelheaded than most!

You my friend are blessed with the spirit of commonsense that alludes many of us.

The Lord is Worthy to be sought!!! Always.
Simon
 
The fruits of Fatima: Penance, conversion, prayer to Jesus for salvation, increased devotion to Jesus through Mary, love of neighbor, and greater obedience in humility to the will of God.

Penance. This is called for in the message. Those who listen and believe have followed the call to do penance.

Conversion. Have you yourself not seen on these forums alone that many have come to be converted to the Faith?

Prayer to Jesus for salvation: Directly in the message which gives us the Fatima prayer. I pray this several times daily as do thousands of others.

Increased devotion to Jesus through Mary: the devotion is something that has been part of Christianity from its beginning, though you refuse to accept anything as “christian” apparently unless it came after approximately AD 1500 and ‘protests’ Catholicism. The increase in devotion is there because any knowledge and any thought about Mary increases one’s thoughts and knowledge of Christ. She leads us to him. . .not to her. It’s as if she were a beautiful crown on His Head. Our eyes might be drawn to the crown, because the splendour of God is too bright for us but the crown, being a creation, is not. But once one sees the crown one is not focused on the crown but on the splendour below. What we would not have dared to look at ourselves becomes our focus. . .through that crown (Mary). What we would not have dared to contemplate–God made man–became our Savior, through being born of Mary. She is worthy of being a crown for Him (as His Mother), He alone is worthy of adoration as King of Kings.

Don’t you see from my posts alone that everything that Mary does is because of what God has willed for her (he is eternal and unchanging) and that every single thing reflects back only to God? Makes us more aware of God? More loving of God, more focused on God, etc.?

Love of neighbor: Well, I’m still here trying, out of love for you, to steer you toward the right direction (God) and away from the false scrupolosity that keeps you from giving God His FULL honor and glory.

Greater obediency in humility to the will of God. Just as Mary always did, I model myself (being only a poor human creature) on the one human creature that God created without sin and made the mother of His Son, yet who herself remains meek and humble, only reflecting “Him” and only doing HIS WILL.

It is ‘humbling’ to be reminded not from God Himself (because that would really make us proud, that we were so important that God Himself deigned to come to speak to us even after sending Christ to us), but from the meek and nearly unknown WOMAN who bore His Son, that we 'like sheep have gone astray" and need to submit our necks to the yoke of obedience to God. Obviously it sticks in some people’s craw to think that ‘some creature’ (and not that person himself or herself) speaks for God and that he or she isn’t important enough to get “God’s” attention.
Really TE what I was in search of is you taking parts of the actual messages written of Fatima and drawing the parallel to these points, your answers listed could be used in practically any marian debate.
I do respect your answers and truly hope and pray that anyone whom is attracted to the phenom that is fatima approach as you’ve laid out above.
Though on a line item comparison I’d say this falls short.
 
My friend John is much more levelheaded than most!

You my friend are blessed with the spirit of commonsense that alludes many of us.

The Lord is Worthy to be sought!!! Always.
Simon
Once again, I feel not worthy of being called “level-headed”. It’s rare that my name is used in the same sentence as “level-headed” or such.

Thanks for the kind words. I think what you call level-headed is better described as “someone who’s been there, before”.
 
JP 2 believed in it. So too do I.

What is good enough for his late Holiness is definitly good enough for me 👍
 
Quantum nobis nostrisque ea de Christo fabula profuerit, satis est omnibus saeculis notum. The words, said to have been spoken to Cardinal Bembo, were noted down for the first time by Bale in his Pageant of the Popes, ed. 1574, p. 179. Bale, bishop of Ossory, had been a Carmelite.
Simon, O Simon, please quit the slander and disingenuousness in your tag lines.

John Bale never knew Cardinal Bembo nor was he ever in Rome. He is the first and ONLY one to claim that Pope Leo X said this: a few paragraphs after (in that scandalous tome ‘Pageant of the Popes’) he attributes lightning strikes on a Catholic church after Martin Luther speaks as proof that God approves of those separated sects.

John Bale USED to be a priest, look up HIS links, my friend, and quit being so shameful and disrespectful of common sense research and proof of assertions (you know, the text, the context, the obvious meaning of things).

Interesting, that you dropped this tagline but you did not apologize: I guess you’re too good to admit you’re wrong and ashamed of your gibes at Catholics. Tsk tsk.
 
Really TE what I was in search of is you taking parts of the actual messages written of Fatima and drawing the parallel to these points, your answers listed could be used in practically any marian debate.
I do respect your answers and truly hope and pray that anyone whom is attracted to the phenom that is fatima approach as you’ve laid out above.
Though on a line item comparison I’d say this falls short.
SIMON: Of course you missed my (and others evidently) point that Marian appearances DO NOT change Christian teaching or the Cycle of Redemption.

You are the one who is taking things out of context: like your taglines (unattributed) and your proof texting (out of context).

Be more charitable or at least more honest.
 
JK, what part of I’ve apologized don’t you get?
The part where you tell all of us where Pope Benedict’s ‘translation’ which you claim you used can be found on the Fatima question.

The part where you ACTUALLY say “I’m sorry for telling a half truth” or “I’m sorry I changed the words to fit my argument to bait you Catholics.” You know, an APOLOGY.
 
I’m just going to take this thread title and work with it for a minute. O.K. Let’s all go with the idea that the apparition at Fatima was satan. Why would satan waste his time with a Church that was in error? Wouldn’t he work hard to deceive the believers of the* true* faith and appear to Protestants if their teachings were the true faiths? Muslims and Protestants are not the target audience of apparitions. It is always members of the churches with Apostolic Succession. I have no doubt that it was not satan who appeared to the children at Fatima, and that it was the Blessed Virgin. But I’m just working with Simon’s premise.

He really has a no-win situation here. Either satan is concentrating his deceptions on the Church which he knows teaches truth in an effort to corrupt the followers of the truth, in that way confirming that the Catholic Church is the True Church. Or, the Blessed Mother did appear to the children in Fatima. Thus, confirming that the Catholic Church is the True Church. So, really, the concern for every Protestant should be, why do neither satan nor the Blessed Virgin take the time to appear to Protestants?
 
I really do not know why my Catholic Sisters and Brothers are getting up tight about criticisms of Fatima.

We know only too well the criticisms of Mother Church.

What folk think of my faith matters little to me. What really matters to me is my personal relationship with my Saviour God.

All else is trivia.

You will know them by their fruits.

Their rejection is their loss
 
I really do not know why my Catholic Sisters and Brothers are getting up tight about criticisms of Fatima.

We know only too well the criticisms of Mother Church.

What folk think of my faith matters little to me. What really matters to me is my personal relationship with my Saviour God.

All else is trivia.

You will know them by their fruits.

Their rejection is their loss
Well said 👍
 
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