Fatima, the work of satan?

[Eireann]

**Myfavouritemartin **

Sadly, I missed this before… This really really really DOES contradict scripture, How you ask?
On resurrection day Christ was a full grown adult, approx. 33 years old! RIGHT? Well then if you believe in the resurrection and that Christ in both natures is in heaven right now… Which is a requirement of the Christian faith then how on earth and why on earth would he appear with her as a baby(or was really her but not really our Saviour) and why would he not himself speak to them if he was in that vision??? HE IS OUR SAVIOUR!
This vision in my opinion is an act of deception perpetrated by none other than satan.
This sounds like an argument for marianity… sheesh I personally am disgusted more now than ever… I will go back and read that this was quoted correctly.
Lord Jesus open the minds and hearts of all reading this to know and see the truth, in your name we pray.

So you have a problem with the child Jesus, but no problem with a burning bush ?

13th of May, 1917

The Lady spoke," Do not be afraid. I will not harm you. " Lucia asked,"where do you come from ? " I come from Heaven. " the Lady replied. Lucia asked, “What do you want of me ?” The Lady said,“I have come to ask you to come here for six months,at this same hour. Later I shall say who I am and what I desire.” From Heaven?,thought Lucia

13th JUNE, 1917 When Our Lady appeared to the children on this date, she told them : “I want you to come here on the 13th of next month. Say the Rosary and after each mystery pray:O my Jesus forgive us our sins save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven especially those who are most in need of your mercy.” When Lucia asked if she would bring them to Heaven, Our Lady replied, “I shall take Jacinta and Francisco before very long but you will stay a little longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me known and loved. He wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart.” “Must I stay here all alone?” “No, my child. Do not be sad because of this. I will never leave you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way which will lead you to God.”……………………

The part highlighted in blue happened, that in red is on-going.

Source

 

[Eden]

Here is the significance of the apparitions in Egypt and the Holy Family:

THE HOLY FAMILY’S JOURNEY TO EGYPT

On the 1st June (24th Bashans) the Church celebrates the anniversary of the Holy Family’s coming to Egypt. It is known that the Holy Family arrived at El Ferma at the north eastern border of Egypt (now the place is named Port Fouad). Then the Holy Family moved on to Tal Basta (the city of Zagazig is located there now)–and arrived there on 24th Bashans. Thus God has blessed our land and all the old Egyptian idols fell to pieces to realize the Book’s statement that: “In that day, shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord” (Isaiah 19:19).

The Virgin sat in the shade of a big tree. Joseph touched the ground with a rod of iron, and fresh water sprang out of the spot. It is said that a man named Kalloum wondered at what he saw. He invited the Holy Family to his house where he used to pray to an idol. That idol fell and was broken into pieces. So, the priests demanded the death of Jesus.

The Holy Family went over to Belbeis and then to Menyat Genah (near the present town of Sammanoud). There, Christ caused a spring of water to appear. A church was built there. It was called Beekha Isous, i.e. Christ’s heel; now it is known as the Monastery of El Maghtas.

The Holy Family then went over to El Natroun Valley. So, God blessed the place and filled it with monasteries and peopled them with monks. There, it is said, the Holy Family was met by two thieves. The first was deeply affected by the light and holiness emanating from the baby Christ’s face. So he persuaded his companion to restore what they had plundered. The Virgin prayed that he might be granted the blessing of repentance. It is the same thief, on Christ’s right, that had been touched by Grace, so he cried out on the throne, “Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.”

The Holy Family then moved on to Ein Shams and El Matterya. Joseph had a stick. Christ planted it. A spring of water came out, and it grew into a tree. El Matterya tree still lives up to the present day, over 2000 years.

The Holy Family passed by the site occupied now by the Church of Abou Serga in Ancient Cairo.

Then the Holy Family moved on to Upper Egypt (near Samalout) passing through El Ashmouneen, and Mount Kiskam and Meir and Mount Drinka (in Assyout). El Moharik Monastery there has an ancient church on the site of the cave in which the Holy Family stayed.

zeitun-eg.org/stmary5.htm

So I wonder, was the Miracle of the Sun with the apparition of the Holy Family a foreshadowing of this miraculous apparition in Egypt still to come 50 years later?

 

[Eireann]

myfavouritemartin

Sadly, I missed this before… This really really really DOES contradict scripture, How you ask?
On resurrection day Christ was a full grown adult, approx. 33 years old! RIGHT? Well then if you believe in the resurrection and that Christ in both natures is in heaven right now… Which is a requirement of the Christian faith then how on earth and why on earth would he appear with her as a baby(or was really her but not really our Saviour) and why would he not himself speak to them if he was in that vision??? HE IS OUR SAVIOUR!
This vision in my opinion is an act of deception perpetrated by none other than satan.
This sounds like an argument for marianity… sheesh I personally am disgusted more now than ever… I will go back and read that this was quoted correctly.
Lord Jesus open the minds and hearts of all reading this to know and see the truth, in your name we pray.

So you have a problem with the child Jesus, but no problem with a burning bush ?

The 13th of May, 1917

The Lady spoke," Do not be afraid. I will not harm you. " Lucia asked,"where do you come from ? " I come from Heaven. " the Lady replied. Lucia asked, “What do you want of me ?” The Lady said,“I have come to ask you to come here for six months,at this same hour. Later I shall say who I am and what I desire.” From Heaven?,thought Lucia

13th JUNE, 1917 When Our Lady appeared to the children on this date, she told them : “I want you to come here on the 13th of next month. Say the Rosary and after each mystery pray:O my Jesus forgive us our sins save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven especially those who are most in need of your mercy.” When Lucia asked if she would bring them to Heaven, Our Lady replied, “I shall take Jacinta and Francisco before very long but you will stay a little longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me known and loved. He wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart.” “Must I stay here all alone?” “No, my child. Do not be sad because of this. I will never leave you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way which will lead you to God.”……………………

The part highlighted in blue happened, that in red is on-going. then again it has been established.

Source

 

[Eireann]

13th JULY 1917

." The doubts of her mother,the taunts of the people the questions of the parish priest; all these things passed through Lucia’s mind and she decided not to lose an opportunity. "I would like to ask who you are and if you will do a miracle so that everyone will believe that you appeared to us.

" After further conversation ,Our Lady said, "Make sacrifices for sinners and say often, especially when you make a sacrifice Jesus, this is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners and in reparation for sins against the Immaculate Heart of Mary. " Lucia said, “As she (Our Lady ) said these words, she opened her hands. The reflection they gave out seemed to penetrate the earth and we saw a sea of fire and plunged in this fire devils and souls like transparent embers, black or bronzed, in human form, which floated in the fire and were carried by the flames which they themselves gave forth, together with clouds of smoke, falling on all sides–as the sparks fall in great fires–without weight or equilibrium, amidst cries of pain and despair which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The devils could be distinguished by their horrible and terrifying forms of strange unknown animals but transparent like burning coal.” The terrified children looked up at the Blessed irgin as if asking for help and she sadly but kindly told them : “You have seen hell where the souls of sinners go. To save them God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If you do what I tell you many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war will end, but if men do not cease to offend God another worse one will begin When you see a night lit by a strange unknown light, you will know that it is the sign that God gives you that he is going to punish the world for its crimes by means of war, hunger and the persecution of the Church and the Holy Father. To prevent it I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart and the reparatory Communion of the First Saturdays. If my desires are fulfilled, Russia will be converted and there will be peace ; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church ; the good will be martyred and the Holy Father will have much to suffer ; various nations will be annihilated. But in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me and she will be converted and the world will enjoy a period of peace. In Portugal, the Dogma of Faith will always be conserved.” ( The first World War was ongoing at that time.Lucia believed that the aurora borealis which illuminated the night sky on 24th-25th January,1938 was the warning given of the approach of World War 2. ).

The warning about the war was given, and it came.

Source

 

[Eireann]

13th August ,1917

The children were unable to go to theCova da Iria on the 13th August as they were in prison ! The Mayor of Vila Nova de Ourem decided to put an end to the "nonsense " at Fatima .He was an anti-religious Mason. He called to the village on the pretence of bringing the children to the apparition site in his carriage but instead brought them to his house in Ourem. When they refused to tell him all that had been revealed to them, they were lodged in the local gaol and threatened with being thrown into a cauldron of boiling oil.While they were in prison, Jacinta began to say the Rosary and all the other prisoners knelt down and joined in What a scene ! The Mayor eventually had to release them. On Sunday,19th August, Our Lady appeared to the children at a place called Valinhos. She asked them to continue saying the Rosary every day and again promised to perform a miracle in October.

13th , September , 1917

The number of visitors and pilgrims and of the curious had continued to increase and a large number turned up on this day. Our Lady again appeared to the children and hrr principal message was to continue saying the Rosary daily. The scene was now set for the big day to come on 13th October.Was it all a fraud or would there be an extraordinary sign given ?

13th October ,1917

Almeida Garrett, the well known Professor of Coimbra University,estimated the number at 100,000. The Diario de Noticias reporter counted 240 carts,135 bicycles and 100 cars.This only included the number of vehicles which returned to Vila Nove de Ourem.It is not disputed that the number present exceeded 70,000.The crowd did not consist of believers only.There was a percentage of curious,incredulous and unbelieving people, who had come with the sole purpose of mocking the credulity of the simple faithful……….

A cry went up from every mouth and the people fell on their knees on the muddy ground. The light turned a beautiful blue as if it had come through the stained-glass windows of a cathedral and spread itself over the people who knelt with outstretched hands. The blue faded slowly and then the light seemed to pass through yellow glass. Yellow stains fell against white handkerchiefs, against the dark skirts of the women. They were repeated on the trees, on the stones and on the serra. People wept and prayed with uncovered heads in the presence of a miracle they had awaited. The seconds seemed like hours, so vivid were they. " In the other Lisbon paper the Seculo, Avelino de Almeida recorded, "Before the astonished eyes of thr crowd-- - - - the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic laws------the sun “danced” according to the typical expression of the people.Some swore that the sun whirled on itself like a giant catherine wheel and that it lowered itself to the earth as if to burn it in its rays. Some said that they saw it change colours successively. " Dr. Garrett, already mentioned wrote "The sun, whirling wildly, seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its hugh and fiery weight. " He estimated that the phenomenon lasted about ten minutes. Dr. Domingos Pinto Coelho said in the paper Ordem : “The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceedingly fast and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat.” . This phenomenon was not registered at any astronomical observatory and could not, therefore, have been of natural origin. It was witnessed by people of every category and class, by believers as well as unbelievers, journalists of the principal daily papers amd even by people kilometres away, a fact which destroys any theory of collective hallucination. There were actually three miracles. Firstly, the event was foretold three months in advance.Secondly, the solar phenomenon itself. Thirdly, although it had been raining hard all night long and up to shortly before noon, as soon as the sun returned to normal,everything was bone dry,the ground, the vegetation and the people’s clothing so powerful had the heat of the sun become during solar happening.

The promised miracle of the sun happened.

Source

 

[JonathanKinsman]

The source link I posted was cardinal joseph ratzinger

and it covers all 3 secrets.

Simon: You’re (Edited by Moderator). I hope it was unintentional.

The link you provided IS NOT a translation of the 3 secrets of Fatima by then-Cardinal Ratzinger.

He, as Prefect of the CIF, wrote a “theological commentary on the visions of Fatima.”

If you had actually READ what you claim is damning evidence against the Church, you would have not posted your uncharitable lies.

You still haven’t apologized for this and for that spurious “quote” attributed by (Edited by Moderator) John Bale about Pope Leo X.

(Edited by Moderator)

 

[Eireann]

The Consecration of Russia.

"On May 13, 1982, His Holiness John Paul II made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made. I responded “NO.” It was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.
“Then this same Supreme Pontiff, John Paul II, wrote to all the bishops of the world [Dec. 1983) asking them to unite with him. He sent for the statue of Our Lady of Fatima – the one from the little Chapel to be taken to Rome, and on March 25, 1984 - publicly - with the bishops who wanted to unite with His Holiness, made the Consecration as Our Lady requested. They then asked me if it was made as Ours Lady requested, and I said [COLOR=“Blue”]'YES.” Now it was made.
Source

Pope JP 2 shot 13th May 1981
Sister Lucia dies 13th February 2005

And not forgetting the Vatican

Fatima is undoubtedly the most prophetic of modern apparitions. The first and second parts of the “secret”—which are here published in sequence so as to complete the documentation—refer especially to the frightening vision of hell, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Second World War, and finally the prediction of the immense damage that Russia would do to humanity by abandoning the Christian faith and embracing Communist totalitarianism.

So there you have it my favouritemartin, I believe in Fatima, you don’t oh well . :tiphat:

 

[LilyM]

Sadly, I missed this before… This really really really DOES contradict scripture, How you ask?
On resurrection day Christ was a full grown adult, approx. 33 years old! RIGHT? Well then if you believe in the resurrection and that Christ in both natures is in heaven right now… Which is a requirement of the Christian faith then how on earth and why on earth would he appear with her as a baby**(or was really her but not really our Saviour)** and why would he not himself speak to them if he was in that vision???** HE IS OUR SAVIOUR!**
This vision in my opinion is an act of deception perpetrated by none other than satan.
This sounds like an argument for marianity… sheesh I personally am disgusted more now than ever… I will go back and read that this was quoted correctly.
Lord Jesus open the minds and hearts of all reading this to know and see the truth, in your name we pray.

Sorry, just saw this comment and had to respond.

Here you are saying that Satan can appear in any form he wishes, up to and including an angel of light … or the Mother of God … or even the Infant Saviour himself … and yet Jesus is so feeble and powerless that he can ONLY appear either as a 33-year-old man or as a lamb???

The Saviour I worship happens to be MORE powerful than Satan. If I though for a second that Satan was greater or more able than Jesus in any respect I would not even think of worshipping Jesus, and I wonder that you would.

Being God incarnate (and you don’t appear to fully understand what this concept means, either for Christ or His Blessed Mother) Jesus can certainly appear in whatever form He chooses.

 

[Michael_Francis]

The level of charity on this thread had better rise and the level of heat decline if this thread is to remain open.

Penalties have been issued for posts here by both non-Catholics and Catholics alike.

I’ll let the words of St. Peter’s 3rd chapter of his1st letter be my final comment to you all.

13: Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is right?
14: But even if you do suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
15: but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16: and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
17: For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong.

MF

 

[Tom317]

Over 4000 views, its a ligitimate concern!
And no it wasn’t established.

Be honest with all of us, after this many posts is there anything anyone can post that will convince you that Fatima is not the work of satan?

 

[Tom317]

BTW, I was not trying to be uncharitable, I would truly like to know what it is you seek?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I’ll respond this evening, now is the time to let things cool off a bit.

 

[Sixtus]

As to my Protestant brothers and sisters…We will keep the light on for you.

Well said

 

[Sixtus]

now is the time to let things cool off a bit

My dear sisters and brothers, when the enemy attacks he scores but once. When he gets you to argue among yourselves he scores twice.

Please do not allow him this double victory!!

 

[water]

My dear sisters and brothers, when the enemy attacks he scores but once. When he gets you to argue among yourselves he scores twice.

Please do not allow him this double victory!!

I understand what you meant; however, I truly think myfavoritmartin is our brother in Christ. To call one enemy is to deny his belief in Christ - we just have different points of view on this matter.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I understand what you meant; however, I truly think myfavoritmartin is our brother in Christ. To call one enemy is to deny his belief in Christ - we just have different points of view on this matter.

Thanks Water, I think in due time I’ll be able to have the same working relationship with you as I do notworthy and mikeledes.
Peace my brother.
He is worthy to be sought!
Simon

be back in an hour!

 

[mark_a]

The subject of Mary provides so many Protestants with the “ah-hah” moment they are looking for. You’re not the first and you won’t be the last.

The subject of artificial contraception, abortificients, and abortion provide Catholics with the “ah-hah” moment we are looking for.

If we’re both wrong, which one is more likely to get you hell bound?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

The subject of Mary provides so many Protestants with the “ah-hah” moment they are looking for. You’re not the first and you won’t be the last.

The subject of artificial contraception, abortificients, and abortion provide Catholics with the “ah-hah” moment we are looking for.

If we’re both wrong, which one is more likely to get you hell bound?

The subject is not Mary it is the vision at fatima…
It seems you are ensinuateing that I approve of those said things.
I am a fundamentalist I dont.

 

[water]

Thanks Water, I think in due time I’ll be able to have the same working relationship with you as I do notworthy and mikeledes.
Peace my brother.
He is worthy to be sought!
Simon

be back in an hour!

I think likewise. God bless you, Simon!

 

[JonathanKinsman]

But how does that promise jive when considering faith plus works? She is** promising **

salvation.

SIMON: Contrary to your most recent statement: it IS about Mary=Satan=Disguised as an Angel.

It has been answered many, many times.

Any news on that ‘edit’ request of mine??

Pax Chrisi Simon

Jonathan