FBI memo reports Guantanamo guards flushing Koran

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Lilyofthevalley:
It’s ART! Taking religious items and degrading them, is considered ART in this day and age.
Unless it is done in order to save lives. PissChrist is just offensive. :mad: But, appearing to or threatening to flush a man’s Holy Book down the toilet in order to gain information about terrorist plans or inner-workings is fine by me. Artful, even.
 
This is exactly the kind of thing that happens in a Holy War; each side either debases the others religion in the name of religion or each side claims debasement and the need for retribution.
 
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ybeayf:
If you tear pages out of a book, you can use them for all sorts of things – bog wipe, kleenex, rolling a doobie, etc. No problem to flush pages down a toilet. Furthermore, it is very common to see Qur’ans that are themselves very small – around the size of a Gideon Bible, or even smaller --and would lend themselves very nicely to being flushed down a toilet.?
ybeayf for whatever reason I think you have referred to yourself as female however you seem not to have much understanding of what can or cannot be flushed down a toilet, particularly one that is not necessarily ‘industrial strength’ like you would find in a baseball stadium downwind from the beer garden. Even a SMALL object will clog a toilet as any mother knows. Further if you are female surely you’ve been in a ladies room that has warnings of flushing anything but TP down–including Kleenex, and women’s products that are actually designed to flush.

The theory that someone could flush a BOOK down a toilet is ludicrous. This is a very common way for prisoners in American jails to get attention or divert the guards, plug the potties. In fact I understand that there was a report of a **detainee **stopping up a toilet with pages of the Koran, in an effort to protest conditions. (What were they expecting the Hilton?)
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ybeayf:
You don’t think it possible for the allegations to be true? If not, why not?
I think it is far more likely that the allegations were either made up as a result of instructions on the part of terrorist organizers or that the story of the DETAINEE plugging the toilet was misquoted. Outrageous claims by prisioners and detainees are somewhat par for the course. I heard a female detainee claim she was raped by six soldiers every night. When the claims become outragious, such as with someone flushing a book down a toilet, I tend to discount them quite heavily.

Lisa N
 
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Thekla:
This is exactly the kind of thing that happens in a Holy War; each side either debases the others religion in the name of religion or each side claims debasement and the need for retribution.
Except we don’t call it a holy war. War for freedom, democracy, national security, oil, whatever. But for Christianity?? Nah. Beating back wacko Islamacists?? Ok. But not in the name of Christianity.

Wackos can do whatever they like to the bible, and we aren’t rioting.
 
ybeayf for whatever reason I think you have referred to yourself as female
Nope. 100% male.
however you seem not to have much understanding of what can or cannot be flushed down a toilet, particularly one that is not necessarily ‘industrial strength’ like you would find in a baseball stadium downwind from the beer garden.
I have faith in our armed forces’ ability to construct a capable commode, yea, even a powerful and puissant potty with a fearsome flush.
Except we don’t call it a holy war. War for freedom, democracy, national security, oil, whatever.
It seems that freedom and democracy have become a sort of secular religion for many Americans, and a proselytizing one, at that.
 
It seems that freedom and democracy have become a sort of secular religion for many Americans, and a proselytizing one, at that.
Yeah, that fascist tyranny sure beats the heck outta anything else. :rolleyes:
The most prosperous and most religious country in the world is a democratic republic. Hmmmm.
 
The most prosperous and most religious country in the world is a democratic republic.
Most prosperous? I’ll give you that, though perhaps not for long. Most religious? Not by a long shot. Islam is a religion, too.
 
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ybeayf:
Most religious? Not by a long shot. Islam is a religion, too.
WHAT???

The most religious state in the world?? The United States of America.

When you combine all the Protestant and Catholic churches, Jewish Temples and Synogoges, Muslim Mosques, Buddist Temples, Hindu Temples, etc etc and the number of observant religous citizens who believe that there is a moral code that comes from someplace higher than man’s laws, there is NO numerical comparison on earth.
 
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ybeayf:
And one more…

Afghan Riots Not Tied to Report on Quran Handling, General Says
From that article:
there is another unconfirmed log reference to a guard report that a detainee tore pages from the Quran and flushed them in an attempt to flood the holding area as a form of protest.
Amazingly, I’m suddenly taking Muslim claims to the Absolute Divinity of the Koran/Quran/whatever much less seriously.
 
The most religious state in the world?? The United States of America.
When you combine all the Protestant and Catholic churches, Jewish Temples and Synogoges, Muslim Mosques, Buddist Temples, Hindu Temples, etc etc and the number of observant religous citizens who believe that there is a moral code that comes from someplace higher than man’s laws, there is NO numerical comparison on earth
Still not buying it. I’ll wait for you to produce some hard numbers.
 
there is another unconfirmed log reference to a guard report that a detainee tore pages from the Quran and flushed them in an attempt to flood the holding area as a form of protest.
Amazingly, I’m suddenly taking Muslim claims to the Absolute Divinity of the Koran/Quran/whatever much less seriously.

It’s equally as substantiated as the allegations of US interrogators desecrating the Qur’an, so if you reject the one on the basis of lack of proof, you should logically reject the other.
 
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ybeayf:
It’s equally as substantiated as the allegations of US interrogators desecrating the Qur’an, so if you reject the one on the basis of lack of proof, you should logically reject the other.
One would also have to weigh the motives and likely outcome of mendacity in either case, as well as the trustworthiness of the sources. I find erstwhile terrorist contacts less than…pristine, shall we say, and their motives for and the likely outcome of lying about the actions of their captors to be quite profitable. You seemto feel likewise about the truthfulness of our Armed Forces, but I fail to see a similar motive for lying on their part.

At any rate, will the truth ever be known here? Most likely not. I was just making a comment, similar to your own.
 
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ybeayf:
Still not buying it. I’ll wait for you to produce some hard numbers.
Well, on one hand, you are correct. Nigeria is #1.

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POLL RESULTS
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**
 
There is uglines in war. Sometimes we act like those we are waring with…even if we are supposed to have Christian morals. The risk of fighting evil is the fat chance of becoming contaminated. :bigyikes:

These allegations are jut but a murmur of what happened at Guatonomo Bay. Only one person was accused of these sexaul explicit acts. Even to the point of making the prisoners pretend to have fellatio with each other. Putrid behaviour. :banghead:

And many on this board excused these fellas and their ilke. I just wonder if Christ would accept these excuses! :hmmm:

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
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Shoshana:
There is uglines in war. Sometimes we act like those we are waring with…even if we are supposed to have Christian morals. The risk of fighting evil is the fat chance of becoming contaminated. :bigyikes:

These allegations are jut but a murmur of what happened at Guatonomo Bay. Only one person was accused of these sexaul explicit acts. Even to the point of making the prisoners pretend to have fellatio with each other. Putrid behaviour. :banghead:

And many on this board excused these fellas and their ilke. I just wonder if Christ would accept these excuses! :hmmm:

Blessings,
Shoshana
…i would not recommend standing too close to some:eek:
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/lwx/lightning/lgtng-hits-tree.jpg
 
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ybeayf:
Still not buying it. I’ll wait for you to produce some hard numbers.
Well, on one hand, you are correct. Nigeria is #1.

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POLL RESULTS
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**
 
I think I meant to say “of the most prosperous, the most religious”. 😃
 
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ybeayf:
Nope. 100% male…
Well then it makes more sense you don’t know what can or cannot be flushed.
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ybeayf:
I have faith in our armed forces’ ability to construct a capable commode, yea, even a powerful and puissant potty with a fearsome flush…
So you are suggesting that the armed services anticipated the Royal Flush of the Koran and thus contstructed toilets that would (in your words) allow a small BOOK to go down? Utter baloney. Even you can’t possibly believe that.

I did hear a report that after reviewing something like 25000 pages of documentation there were five cases where US servicemen violated the regulations on handling the Koran. There were also 15 cases of detainees mishandling the Koran including one who tore pages out and threw them on the ground. There was no substantiated report of either our military or the detainees of flushing a Koran down the toilet. This story has about as much credibility as the woman who said that six US military men raped her every single night…
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ybeayf:
It seems that freedom and democracy have become a sort of secular religion for many Americans, and a proselytizing one, at that.
Really? I see the emphasis on freedom and democracy from RELIGIOUS not secularists. After all forcing decisions via the courts is not democracy and that’s the usual tactic of the ACLU and other liberal activists. They know they can’t win in the ballot box so they use the courts to push their secular agenda. In addition those liberals speaking against the war want freedom for themselves (to engage in any behavior) but don’t want their brothers and sisters abroad to have even basic freedoms. Sorry but I sure don’t see many liberals pushing a “freedom and democracy” agenda here or abroad.

Lisa N
 
So you are suggesting that the armed services anticipated the Royal Flush of the Koran and thus contstructed toilets that would (in your words) allow a small BOOK to go down? Utter baloney. Even you can’t possibly believe that.
So if pages are ripped out of a Qur’an, they can’t be flushed down a toilet?
Really? I see the emphasis on freedom and democracy from RELIGIOUS not secularists.
Even if that is true – I’m not arguing either way – I would still describe it as a secular religion, simply because it is secular (“worldly”), irrespective of the other religious beliefs of those who hold to it.
 
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