Fearful for the church in Ireland?

[anon98328916]

thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-religious-orders-3276824-Mar2017/

The government are trying to enforce abortion upon us and sadly I feel it will happen. The health system in Ireland is in tatters! The government are trying to make all schools in Ireland secular and after reading this now hospitals. Nothing about this country is Catholic anymore…I know we as a country have failed God, I am fearful for the future and to be quite honest I want out! It will get to the stage of being persecuted for attending Mass and practising the faith. Where will it end? And I do wonder what God thinks of it all?

 

[Padres1969]

thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-religious-orders-3276824-Mar2017/

The government are trying to enforce abortion upon us and sadly I feel it will happen. The health system in Ireland is in tatters! The government are trying to make all schools in Ireland secular and after reading this now hospitals. Nothing about this country is Catholic anymore…I know we as a country have failed God, I am fearful for the future and to be quite honest I want out! It will get to the stage of being persecuted for attending Mass and practising the faith. Where will it end? And I do wonder what God thinks of it all?

What makes you think it will get to the point of your being persecuted for attending mass? Many countries in the west have gone the way you fear Ireland is going, ie: secular schools, allowing abortion, etc… But I’ve not heard of one that persecutes someone for attending religious services.

 

[anon98328916]

What makes you think it will get to the point of your being persecuted for attending mass? Many countries in the west have gone the way you fear Ireland is going, ie: secular schools, allowing abortion, etc… But I’ve not heard of one that persecutes someone for attending religious services.

When I say persecute I don’t mean physically more a case of being verbally attacked be it work or socially. This country is heading that way. The time the abuse scandals became public I can remember my boss at the time basically saying to me ‘how can you still be apart of that church? And still go to Mass’ I admit I said nothing as I wanted to avoid any arguments.

 

[Padres1969]

When I say persecute I don’t mean physically more a case of being verbally attacked be it work or socially. This country is heading that way. The time the abuse scandals became public I can remember my boss at the time basically saying to me ‘how can you still be apart of that church? And still go to Mass’ I admit I said nothing as I wanted to avoid any arguments.

I still think you’re overreacting on that point. I mean in the US and elsewhere in Europe religion is on the decline. I mean personally I don’t know many people who still attend religious services. Yet no one has ever bothered me or the few people I know who still attend church for doing so.

Maybe it’s different in Ireland because of your branch of the abuse scandal. But that same scandal hit the US pretty hard as well and I’ve not seen any backlash against those who still attend church Catholic or otherwise. Now many have left the Catholic church and others as a result of it, but that’s a different matter.

 

[SeekerWillie]

I can understand why you’d feel that way. After all, it wasn’t all that long ago that Irish Catholics couldn’t practice their faith publicly.

I certainly hope and pray it doesn’t go that way for you, though. Stay strong in your faith, and please know there are people in other parts of the world who love and pray for Ireland.

 

[Irishmom2]

thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-religious-orders-3276824-Mar2017/

The government are trying to enforce abortion upon us and sadly I feel it will happen. The health system in Ireland is in tatters! The government are trying to make all schools in Ireland secular and after reading this now hospitals. Nothing about this country is Catholic anymore…I know we as a country have failed God, I am fearful for the future and to be quite honest I want out! It will get to the stage of being persecuted for attending Mass and practising the faith. Where will it end? And I do wonder what God thinks of it all?

Therese,
The government can’t take your faith away, or your love for God. So be at peace.
Practice your faith and know that God sees what is in your heart. Do not worry yourself with what other people think or say, continue to practice your faith.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-religious-orders-3276824-Mar2017/

The government are trying to enforce abortion upon us and sadly I feel it will happen. The health system in Ireland is in tatters! The government are trying to make all schools in Ireland secular and after reading this now hospitals. Nothing about this country is Catholic anymore…I know we as a country have failed God, I am fearful for the future and to be quite honest I want out! It will get to the stage of being persecuted for attending Mass and practising the faith. Where will it end? And I do wonder what God thinks of it all?

In fairness most other countries are already there and very few Catholics are persecuted for attending mass. Abortion has been on the cards for years. I was going door to door for a couple of months with a pro-life group. Most people don’t give much thought to these things and are easily swayed by emotive arguments as opposed to, you know, logic and facts. So the choice argument has it. Plus the repeal crowd are much more vocal. Only hope for saving the eight are the older generation.

I think secularising schools would be OK though. Religious education as an after school program would allow people who are actually serious about their faith to ensure their kids get a good grounding in it as opposed to whatever wishy washy religious stuff their 23 year old primary school teacher parrots out of a book and doesn’t understand himself. And I do think its terrible that baptised kids are given priority given that catholic schools are public and taxpayer funded. The money from the collection baskets is miniscule.

 

[TechieGuy]

“Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”

 

[MaryHelp777]

Keep the faith! It won’t happen!

The Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) is against abortion,

Also:
61% of the ministers here are against abortion (which they only reveal through voting, but are afraid to speak up about due to the Pro Abortion Media),

Last time.there was this referendum.the Irish people voted no to abortion,

God will prevail!!!

thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-religious-orders-3276824-Mar2017/

The government are trying to enforce abortion upon us and sadly I feel it will happen. The health system in Ireland is in tatters! The government are trying to make all schools in Ireland secular and after reading this now hospitals. Nothing about this country is Catholic anymore…I know we as a country have failed God, I am fearful for the future and to be quite honest I want out! It will get to the stage of being persecuted for attending Mass and practising the faith. Where will it end? And I do wonder what God thinks of it all?

 

[esieffe]

I have often thought that Ireland has a “religious hangover.” With all the violence back in the 70s and beyond, this might just be a leftist pendulum swing. We most certainly have that type of swing here. What is so shocking for us and you is that Ireland was always so solid when it came to the faith. It is like the married couple that everyone always thought would stay together.

My hope for your country is that this will pass, that sanity will prevail. I just can’t imagine that the Church will ever be erased from Ireland. Scotland maybe, Ireland never! Ireland is a second love here in the old US, we will always keep you in our thoughts and prayers!:shamrock2::shamrock2: :shamrock2:

 

[Jared2914]

I still think you’re overreacting on that point. I mean in the US and elsewhere in Europe religion is on the decline. I mean personally I don’t know many people who still attend religious services. Yet no one has ever bothered me or the few people I know who still attend church for doing so.

Maybe it’s different in Ireland because of your branch of the abuse scandal. But that same scandal hit the US pretty hard as well and I’ve not seen any backlash against those who still attend church Catholic or otherwise. Now many have left the Catholic church and others as a result of it, but that’s a different matter.

I have found it depends on how vocal I am about the faith. As long as I don’t talk about it much, people don’t care what religion I am. I can say I’m Catholic. People don’t really care. However, I get a very different response between saying a simple “Good Morning” vs. “Good morning, the Lord has blessed us with a great day!”. I have found many people get offended easily if I talk like this, them feeling like I am forcing religion on them. Then again, I live in one of the most liberal parts of the country. Other places could be very different, but here, I definitely feel I can’t talk too much about it or else I could lose my job or be passed over for promotions.

There is also a more subtle effect as well. Say all the guys at work want to go partying every week (I’ve been in this situation before). I don’t because I consider that sinful behavior. That cuts me off from making friends with them. I become sort of an outsider at work. Co-workers don’t talk to me much and aren’t likely to have good things to say about me when the boss is doing performance evaluations. I would be considered “not a team player”.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Keep the faith! It won’t happen!

The Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) is against abortion,

Also:
61% of the ministers here are against abortion (which they only reveal through voting, but are afraid to speak up about due to the Pro Abortion Media),

Last time.there was this referendum.the Irish people voted no to abortion,

God will prevail!!!

Hmm no… The Irish taoiseach may claim to be pro life but his government had exhibited pro choice tendencies. In the bill that brought limited abortion into ireland in 2013, a few dissenters from his dominant government party who refused to vote for it were kicked out of said party. Those ministers you speak of also voted for it or they wouldn’t be in the party now (unless they were only elected last year).

The Irish people might vote to keep the eighth, but my demographic is becoming increasingly politically active and are largely pro choice. I’m too young to remember the last referendum. I can’t call the outcome, but I’m not remotely hopeful.

 

[commenter]

I still think you’re overreacting on that point. I mean in the US and elsewhere in Europe religion is on the decline. I mean personally I don’t know many people who still attend religious services. Yet no one has ever bothered me or the few people I know who still attend church for doing so.
.

In the US, nobody bothers pro abortion politicians who go to Mass, or Protestant services. But prolife politicians (Henry Hyde, for instance) have been followed by proabortion people, who tracked how often they attended Mass, and whether they went to communion and Confession. They then tried to build a case that politicians - or especially judges - who are very religiously Catholic are biased, therefore should recuse themselves on all matters concerning abortion, or same sex marriage.

The implication is that people who are prolife, or pro traditional marriage are less objective, less able to think clearly, as measured by going to Mass.

Colleges that formerly made allowances for chapels in a convenient place on campus are now much less willing to do so. In my old (state) university, Mass was allowed in the student union, but not anymore.

 

[JPUSC]

In the US, nobody bothers pro abortion politicians who go to Mass, or Protestant services. But prolife politicians (Henry Hyde, for instance) have been followed by proabortion people, who tracked how often they attended Mass, and whether they went to communion and Confession. They then tried to build a case that politicians - or especially judges - who are very religiously Catholic are biased, therefore should recuse themselves on all matters concerning abortion, or same sex marriage.

The implication is that people who are prolife, or pro traditional marriage are less objective, less able to think clearly, as measured by going to Mass.

Colleges that formerly made allowances for chapels in a convenient place on campus are now much less willing to do so. In my old (state) university, Mass was allowed in the student union, but not anymore.

“It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.”

“We have to find a new balance, otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

 

[TechieGuy]

However, I get a very different response between saying a simple “Good Morning” vs. “Good morning, the Lord has blessed us with a great day!”.

Honestly, if you hit me with that last before I had my morning coffee, I’d probably give you the stink-eye too.

 

[Thorolfr]

I have often thought that Ireland has a “religious hangover.” With all the violence back in the 70s and beyond, this might just be a leftist pendulum swing. We most certainly have that type of swing here. What is so shocking for us and you is that Ireland was always so solid when it came to the faith. It is like the married couple that everyone always thought would stay together.

My hope for your country is that this will pass, that sanity will prevail. I just can’t imagine that the Church will ever be erased from Ireland. Scotland maybe, Ireland never! Ireland is a second love here in the old US, we will always keep you in our thoughts and prayers!:shamrock2::shamrock2: :shamrock2:

The Catholic Church in Ireland has a lot of problems and has lost most of its credibility and respect. Take this article by Emer O’Toole in the Guardian from just a couple of days ago:

The Catholic church is ‘shocked’ at the hundreds of children buried at Tuam. Really?

It has been confirmed that significant numbers of children’s remains lie in a mass grave adjacent to a former home for unmarried mothers run by the Bon Secours Sisters in Tuam, County Galway. This is exactly where local historian Catherine Corless, who was instrumental in bringing the mass grave to light, said they would be. A state-established commission of inquiry into mother and baby homes recently located the site in a structure that “appears to be related to the treatment/containment of sewage and/or waste water”, but which we are not supposed to call a septic tank.

The archbishop of Tuam, Michael Neary, says he is “deeply shocked and horrified”. Deeply. Because what could the church have known about the abuse of children in its institutions? When Irish taoiseach Enda Kenny was asked if he was similarly shocked, he answered: “Absolutely. To think you pass by the location on so many occasions over the years.” To think. Because what would Kenny, in Irish politics since the 70s, know about state-funded, church-perpetrated abuse of women and children? Even the commission of inquiry – already under critique by the UN – said in its official statement that it was “shocked by this discovery”.

If I am shocked, it is by the pretence of so much shock. When Corless discovered death certificates for 796 children at the home between 1925 and 1961 but burial records for only two, it was clear that hundreds of bodies existed somewhere. They did not, after all, ascend into heaven like the virgin mother. Corless then uncovered oral histories from reliable local witnesses, offering evidence of where those children’s remains could be found. So what did the church and state think had happened? That the nuns had buried the babies in a lovely wee graveyard somewhere, but just couldn’t remember where?

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/07/catholic-church-children-buried-at-tuam-ireland

 

[Rosebud77]

It must be hard over there to realise what effect the Tuam baby scandal has had and will have the next while

And the avalanche has only just started.

In at least 8 other such homes, the death rate among babies was up to 68 % way above the national trend.

The babies were neglected wholesale. Most died in the first year

Added to this we now have the breaking news of baby trafficking from here.

The commission of inquiry will now be widened to take in the other homes and where eg homes have closed and planning permission has been given to rebuild, that has been stopped as they are sure now of human remains there,

There are still survivors, Their stories.

And the anger against the Church here is rampant. I work online on a big forum and the anger at this… And my own emotions on this.

It was not "just " the neglect, but the dishonouring in the burials which were at Tuam in a wastewater treatment tank ie a septic tank . There may well be another separate site there; they will be checking that soon with imaging technology machinery. They have extracted some remains from the septic tank, and forensics are in progress.

They have to be scientific and open about it all now. And we have to accept and face what has been done by those at the very heart of the Irish Catholic Church.

This is not outside or from the Enemy. This is “us” . And there is here no denial of that fact. Archbishops and bishops are aknowledging this reality

And the Church here as an institution? The abuse scandals all but destroyed it and was the reason SSM got in and that may well happen with abortion now. Our fault. As a Church.

And that will affect the Church here now and rightly so, to me. I have seen and heard so much anger and so much grief… eg how can they preach pro life when they let treat babies like this?

Each must make their decision now.

I am ill and getting more ill. This has done that to me. It haunts me. Near Tuam here where I live. And nearer another home .

And my own calling as a hermit is reinforced now and strengthened in a tradition as old as the faith

I was out on Ash Wednesay, just beofe this all became public although we knew trutha nd that it would hit soon.

I was at Knock Shrine. Love Mayo and have many friends there.

When I was first in ireland, I was there in Ash Wednesday and it was thronged and humming…

Last week it was a ghost place. Deserted. Terrible to see.

Then this was made public.

 

[carefullytread]

I am ill and getting more ill.

Those of us who’ve read your posts and appreciated your voice should all be praying for you. Your presence on this forum is much cherished!

 

[Rosebud77]

The Catholic Church in Ireland has a lot of problems and has lost most of its credibility and respect. Take this article by Emer O’Toole in the Guardian from just a couple of days ago:

The Catholic church is ‘shocked’ at the hundreds of children buried at Tuam. Really?

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/07/catholic-church-children-buried-at-tuam-ireland

Your post is spot on. Oh one misquote > Archbishop Neary spoke of shock at the extent not at the fact. There is no way the diocese did not know.

And yes, many falling way and more now. I saw this two years ago when this news was first aired. If you abuse a nations’s children?

 

[Zeno11]

thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-religious-orders-3276824-Mar2017/

The government are trying to enforce abortion upon us and sadly I feel it will happen. The health system in Ireland is in tatters! The government are trying to make all schools in Ireland secular and after reading this now hospitals. Nothing about this country is Catholic anymore…I know we as a country have failed God, I am fearful for the future and to be quite honest I want out! It will get to the stage of being persecuted for attending Mass and practising the faith. Where will it end? And I do wonder what God thinks of it all?

The Church in Ireland is in a desperate crisis. (I am Irish though I currently live and work in London) and the majority of people are so appalled by the actions of nuns and priests in the past that they now want nothing to do with the catholic church.

We are mocked and ridiculed for supporting a church where the sexual abuse of children was endemic and covered up by priests and bishops and now the latest unbelievable scandal of hundreds and perhaps thousands of babies and small children who were being ‘cared’ for by nuns having been buried in unmarked graves and even in sewer pits. There is a general consensus that even more of these graves will be discovered at other Mother and Baby homes around the country.

Add to that the selling of children to Americans without the knowledge or permission of their mothers, and the appalling treatment of unmarried mothers right up to the 1990s, the testing of vaccines on helpless children, and the cruelty of nuns towards these children, and you do have to wonder what sort of church was at large in Ireland.

For myself, I have really had enough. I think the downfall of the catholic church in Ireland is being allowed by Almighty God because it has been corrupt and unchristian. I am studying the Orthodox church and it’s teachings with a view to converting. After all, the Orthodox hold St Patrick and St Brigid as Orthodox saints. Ireland was a country that was Orthodox in its beliefs, rituals and practices until the 12th century, and we were known as a land of saints and scholars. It wasn’t until Pope Urban 1V (the only English pope; oh the irony!) ordered the invasion of Ireland by England to bring us into line with Rome in the 12th century, that we became ‘Roman’ catholics. And a pretty fine mess that has left us in.