Federal Judge Says San Francisco's Labeling of Catholics as "Hateful" is Constitution

[Imagine23]

If you’d like to read the comments in context, they are Considerations regarding proposals to give legal recognition to unions between homosexual persons.

(NB this is not a document issued under the authority of William Cardinal Levada, but under his predecessor, then Josef Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI – Oh yeah if some random city government (especially a foreign city government) recommended to me that I reverse my boss’s policy, yeah: I’d be all over that )

tee

"Homosexuality is a troubling moral and social phenomenon, even in those countries where it does not present significant legal issues. "

You might be interested to note that the Taliban is in complete agreement with the above Church opinion. The penalty for homosexual acts under the Taliban was the death penalty. Most Islamic countries have severe penalties for homosexuality.

Virulent hatred of gays is not limited to religious groups, but other irrational groups like the Nazis. Hitler was extremely anti-gay and sent gays along with Jews to the death chambers.

When you look at your views on issues like these, it is important to consider the types of individuals and groups that agree with you.

 

[Imagine23]

The answer is yes. the Church will not place a child with someone who is living a sinful life. That is why extensive background checks are done on anyone who wants to adopt. They will not, BTW, place a child with a man and a woman who are living togehter and not married

So the Church is consistent in its irrationality, great.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

You ignored Mark Chance’s Hyperlink?
catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ResearchReviewHomosexualParenting.pdf
Quite a few references in there.

There are also arguments based on simple reason that mortally sinful lifestyles are not good for children. I do not want anyone who cannot master their perverse sexual incliations around children at all. Much less so if they actual revel in their disordered lifestyle and seek to propagate such twisted values to innocent children.

 

[Imagine23]

cnsnews.com/Commentary/Archive/200202/COM20020225f.html

Of course the fact that children are better off being raised by a man and a woman is self evident to everyone other than those who want to put their politicl agenda aherad of the well being of children.

I think that left-handed people are better parents than right-handed people and therefore we should not place children with right-handed people. If you disagree, prove I am wrong.

 

[Imagine23]

So?

Gay people shouldn’t adopt.

Why not?

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I think that left-handed people are better parents than right-handed people and therefore we should not place children with right-handed people. If you disagree, prove I am wrong.

You have no interst in reasoned debate here? Handedness has nothing to do with parenting, but sexual identity and the relationship expressed by the parents is visible to the child. Gender identification is well recognized to have an impact on the child’s development. Are you seriously denying that?

 

[Imagine23]

Please use the proper name. It is the The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith not what you called it.

Ah, that’s the name, Holy Office of the Inquisition is easier to remember (and that was the former name) but I’ll use the new name from now on to be Politically Correct.

I guess you want to forget why it was called the Holy Office of the Inquisition, right?

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Ah, that’s the name, Holy Office of the Inquisition is easier to remember (and that was the former name) but I’ll use the new name from now on to be Politically Correct.

I guess you want to forget why it was called the Holy Office of the Inquisition, right?

Not really. The inquisition was a part of a time and culture. Besmirching the work they did is done by people wh do not reognize what they did and why and in the context of the times.

 

[Imagine23]

Agreed. Somebody is getting close to the line with his blatant disrespect for the teachings of the Church, which, incidentally, have been around a lot longer than the city of San Francisco.

People thought the world was flat for a long time. The age of an opinion does not make it correct.

Why should people respect a discriminatory teaching? I respect people, not discriminatory behaviors.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

People thought the world was flat for a long time. The age of an opinion does not make it correct.

Why should people respect a discriminatory teaching? I respect people, not discriminatory behaviors.

So you only respect opinions without dicrimination? The only opinions that qualify for you as valid would then be unexamined opinons.

Okay, that’s a wrap

 

[Imagine23]

Not really. The inquisition was a part of a time and culture. Besmirching the work they did is done by people wh do not reognize what they did and why and in the context of the times.

They tortured people in some of the most sadistic and violent ways imaginable for crimes like “blasphemy.” I cannot imagine anything more barbaric. If you think that is honorable work then you need to reassess your values.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

They tortured people in some of the most sadistic and violent ways imaginable for crimes like “blasphemy.” I cannot imagine anything more barbaric. If you think that is honorable work then you need to reassess your values.

Did they torture people? Or was it actually the governments wherein they resided? Geuss you better check your facts, huh?

 

[Imagine23]

So you only respect opinions without dicrimination? The only opinions that qualify for you as valid would then be unexamined opinons.

Okay, that’s a wrap

Very amateurish attempt Michael. My point all along has been that the Church’s claim that placing kids with gays “does violence to them” has not been explained or justified. Nobody has been unable to do so here, and I’m sure you will not be able to do so.

 

[estesbob]

Thanks for the link to another very typical “Christian” anti-gay propaganda piece. A lot of radical statments are made within it that aren’t substantiated by facts.

Even if some of the vicious allegations in it were true (and there is no evidence suggesting they are), what would they have to do with parenting?

Black have a higher incidence of HIV infection in this country. Does that mean we shouldn’t place children with black parents?

The fact of being heterosexual has nothing to do with whether someone will be a good parent. If it were a factor, there wouldn’t be heterosexual child abusers. It is simply irrelevant, as being left-handed is irrelevant to whether one would be a good parent.

Can you ctell us what the problems with the studies they cited were? Or are they flawed merely becuase you disagree with the results?

Can you cite evididence that the sexual behavior of a childs parents has no impact on them?

 

[hoosiertoo]

Imagine23 - are you Catholic?

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Very amateurish attempt Michael. My point all along has been that the Church’s claim that placing kids with gays “does violence to them” has not been explained or justified. Nobody has been unable to do so here, and I’m sure you will not be able to do so.

You have not defined evidence other than to state a preference for unexamined opinions. Any evidence provided you simply fall back on the propaganda canard. Several links have been provided, several studies have shown that the lifestyle is statistically destructive. I do not want to gamble with Children to suit adults’ selfish desires. That you do should give you pause to aslso reasses your values while I do the same

 

[estesbob]

You have no interst in reasoned debate here? Handedness has nothing to do with parenting, but sexual identity and the relationship expressed by the parents is visible to the child. Gender identification is well recognized to have an impact on the child’s development. Are you seriously denying that?

False analogies are the last resort of those who can not defend their position.

 

[Imagine23]

Did they torture people? Or was it actually the governments wherein they resided? Geuss you better check your facts, huh?

Church used, and worked in concert with, local governments to carry out the torture and murders. The governmental actors were all Church members. The Church dominated all facets of life back then. Any governmentals actors brave enough to defy the Church would be deemed heretics and tortured. It was McCarthyism to a violent and ubiquitious extreme. The torturing would not have happened but for the “crime” of heresy. Feel better about the torture now and the Church’s involvement?

 

[Imagine23]

Imagine23 - are you Catholic?

I was baptized and confirmed.

 

[estesbob]

I was baptized and confirmed.

You told us in the Santa Claus thread that god was a myth.