Female Altar Servers at Tridentine Mass

[Andreas_Hofer]

There are a lot of positive points about altar girls, so I dont really see what the hubbub about it is.

As far as serving at Tridentine mass, I don’t see what the problem is, if the traditional Latin mass is going to survive in the long term, it will need adult participants as well in the future.

Whatever one’s position toward the use of girl altar servers, can’t we all agree that the Church using the traditional Roman rite had no problem perpetuating itself (maintaining the adult participants you mention above) without the use of girls at the altar? The Church managed for 1000 years without girl servers, so why should they suddenly be considered necessary to future adult participation?

 

[TNT]

From what I understand, that was also the case in most every convent.

The Mass required responses to the priest, and if there are no boys present, the responses are given by women or girls.

I believe the same was true for the choir. Convents and girls schools were allowed to have female choirs.

Actually, there really is no requirement for a TLM to have Servers at all…boy or girl.
RE:" The Mass required responses to the priest…"
I do not believe this to be required.
Further, Mass of the TLM era was normally in the Church associated with the convent, or an attached chapel for cloistered. Even today, in Dallas where the daily Mass for the Carmelite Cloistered uses either no alter server or boys from the priest’s parish.

 

[CatholicNick]

The Church managed for 1000 years without girl servers, so why should they suddenly be considered necessary to future adult participation?

The Modernists beg to differ…

 

[GoLatin]

The Mass required responses to the priest, and if there are no boys present, the responses are given by women or girls.

I have been to at least 1 TLM, possibly more, that was not at a convent, and there were no altar boys assisting the Priest.

The Priest gave the responses to himself, and the congregation was completely mute.

 

[GoLatin]

I have been to at least 1 TLM, possibly more, that was not at a convent, and there were no altar boys assisting the Priest.

The Priest gave the responses to himself, and the congregation was completely mute.

Clarification:

What I meant to say above was that I have been to at least 1 TLM where there were no altar boys assisting the Priest, and at which the Priest gave the responses to himself.

 

[AJV]

Permission was given to priests in monasteries when private Masses were common and servers could not be had, and the priest could even say it by himself in time of persecution or to fulfil an obliugation. Otherwise under the 1917 Code, it was not licit to not have someone to say the responses, and required an indult.

 

[palmas85]

Actually, there really is no requirement for a TLM to have Servers at all…boy or girl.
RE:" The Mass required responses to the priest…"
I do not believe this to be required.
Further, Mass of the TLM era was normally in the Church associated with the convent, or an attached chapel for cloistered. Even today, in Dallas where the daily Mass for the Carmelite Cloistered uses either no alter server or boys from the priest’s parish.

I believe that prior to Vatican II you were required to have a server except in special circumstances. You only had to have one, but you needed one.

Even if the Priest had a private Mass, he had a server, either an altar boy or another priest. Many times higher ranking prelates would serve Mass for younger Priests either as penance or to display humility. . Although not widely known an errant priest could also be assigned to serve for a junior priest as a penance for some transgresion. Thomas Merton wrote of just such an incident in his book TherSeven Story Mountain.

 

[batteddy]

But even “altar boys” are really extraordinary.

Instituted Acolytes in the new rite, and the Minor Order of Acolyte in the old rite, are the normative office to give those responses, etc.

Instituted ministers in the new rite, true Clerics in the old rite. Deputated lay men were technically extraordianary (though almost entirely universal as the minor orders became merely “stepping stones” in seminary…a shame I think).

 

[mystified]

Before all the changes, it was altar boys. But I did attend Mass once in a convent were the servers were nuns…they had no boy members in their order , and probably still don’t.

 

[Leeta]

The rubrics of the !962 Mass do not allow female acolytes. It wouldn’t matter if the priest wanted them or not.

Yes, if no boys are present, I have experienced it at a daily TLM Mass that the congregation of women from the pews said the altar boy responses or a lady sat in the front row. If any man was there who was not too elderly, he served. Many older gentlemen served. It depends on the state of their knees.
One of the gentlemen used to play on the German National soccer team and had quit due to a severe knee injury. Needless to say, he couln’t kneel for more than a few seconds. or not at all.
My sons served as altar servers at private Masses at side altars in Salzburg’s St. Sebastian ( a TLM parish) for a couple of priests. Apparently, acolytes are preferred for these private Masses. Other priests can serve for fellow priests.

 

[mickey_doolan]

What I can’t understand why it has to be male dominated rules? . What is it about the gender difference?.
Furthermore both genders get canonised, makes no sense to me.
Traditional Catholicism is too complex. I respect it but rules are rules…
I don’t think that Jesus is in favour with this setup.
Are Male Dominated ruling think they are saying that Mary 'Our Lady" has no right to enter the altar ,yet alone if she wishes to address the people from the altar?.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

What I can’t understand why it has to be male dominated rules? . What is it about the gender difference?.
Furthermore both genders get canonised, makes no sense to me.
Traditional Catholicism is too complex. I respect it but rules are rules…
I don’t think that Jesus is in favour with this setup.
Are Male Dominated ruling think they are saying that Mary 'Our Lady" has no right to enter the altar ,yet alone if she wishes to address the people from the altar?.

Jesus not in favor? While I cant say anything about that…im afraid to say St. Paul is very much in favor of keeping girls our of the cassocks and linens. In fact, if he had his way, women wouldnt even be allowed to speak in Church.

Other supporters for all-male altar boys are a large number of Popes and theologians.

Concerning the ‘rules’
You’ll also find that Traditional Catholicism came before modern Catholicism.

If it was the one true religion then, it is still the one true religion now. And its rules are just as good as the new ones…

 

[janryboy]

oh…i remember 13 years ago…I was very active as an altar boy…

it was already rumured to allow girls as altar servers…

and recently during my college years…i saw one girl in white sotana…serving.

is it a big deal?

 

[pgoings]

I do not believe that the rubrics of the 1962 Missale Romanum address the issue of the sex of the server; if they do, can someone provide a specific reference?

The 1917 Code prohibits this; but it is no longer in force. The 1983 Code, per a later official interpretation, permits the use of women and girls as servers at the altar, and this would apply equally to the Novus Ordo and to celebrations under the 1988 Indult.

However, no bishop is obliged to permit the use of women or girls as alter servers in his diocese, and, even if he does, no priest is obliged to make use of such women or girls when celebrating Mass.

This is the option of the canonists I have consulted.

Additionally, as regards the calendar, the celebrations under the Indult do use the calendar in force in 1962, but the discipline of obligation days is regulated by the 1983 Code. So, the Feast of Corpus Christi is still celebrated on Thursday, but, where it was formerly a Holy Day of Obligation, that obligation no longer exists. This is also true for things such as the Octave Day of the Nativity (formerly the Circumcision) when it falls on a Monday in the U.S. There is no obligation in force.