Female Altar Servers? How has this 11 year experiment gone?

[Iohannes]

Another note, since Inestabile Donum is just for instruction, Remdemptoris Sacramentum is just for instruction too? They both are equivalents of each other.

IT is interesting one time that, having altar girls was a sign that the parish was heretodox and disobiedent.

Even worse, some parents allow the girls to cross dress into priestly clothes(Cassock, surplice or cotta).

 

[JNB]

Reading this thread, I just happen to wonder why so many people know so little about the mass, and what a vocation is. Being a EHMC is NOT a vocation, being a reader is NOT a vocation. Both of these things are done on a temporary basis, and in theory, there should never be any laity distributing communion, and in theory, there should be instituted lectors(and these are allways male) as in done in the Lincoln and soon to be done in the Baker OR diocese. But to anyone who is a reader of an EMHC now, is is NOT a vocation, and people should not be groomed, as some would suggest as female altar servers would be, for these roles. Also there is no extra grace that one can recieve being a lector or EMHC, and being a lector or EMHC does not mean they are in any fuller or active participation in the mass than the people in the pews.

 

[YinYangMom]

JNB:

Reading this thread, I just happen to wonder why so many people know so little about the mass, and what a vocation is. Being a EHMC is NOT a vocation, being a reader is NOT a vocation. Both of these things are done on a temporary basis, and in theory, there should never be any laity distributing communion, and in theory, there should be instituted lectors(and these are allways male) as in done in the Lincoln and soon to be done in the Baker OR diocese. But to anyone who is a reader of an EMHC now, is is NOT a vocation, and people should not be groomed, as some would suggest as female altar servers would be, for these roles. Also there is no extra grace that one can recieve being a lector or EMHC, and being a lector or EMHC does not mean they are in any fuller or active participation in the mass than the people in the pews.

Ok, they aren’t vocations,
but they are ministries…and the sooner a person gets involved in ministry the better, imo.

 

[Iohannes]

Having EMHC really takes away the role that belongs to the priest, he is the Ordinary Minister of the Eucharist.

No one has the right of being a Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist.

No boys, available which I doubt, the priest can celebrate Mass without servers. It can be done. How about invite adult men to serve if no boys will serve?

It is soo bad out there I meet youth leaders who do not know what Mass is.

 

[Iohannes]

Kielbasi:

It gets young ladies involved in the liturgy.

Some of them may be discerning a calling to be a lector or eucharistic minister of Holy Communion, and service at the altar is a first step.

It is not possible for females to become lectors, they can only be called readers.

 

[MrS]

JNB:

Reading this thread, I just happen to wonder why so many people know so little about the mass, and what a vocation is. Being a EHMC is NOT a vocation, being a reader is NOT a vocation. Both of these things are done on a temporary basis, and in theory, there should never be any laity distributing communion, and in theory, there should be instituted lectors(and these are allways male) as in done in the Lincoln and soon to be done in the Baker OR diocese. But to anyone who is a reader of an EMHC now, is is NOT a vocation, and people should not be groomed, as some would suggest as female altar servers would be, for these roles. Also there is no extra grace that one can recieve being a lector or EMHC, and being a lector or EMHC does not mean they are in any fuller or active participation in the mass than the people in the pews.

Nicely said, and on topic. Thanks

 

[jlw]

I voted negative, only that there seems there are NO shortages of boys (who would grow up to be priests) to be altar servers. Why don’t more boys become altar servers??? Not encouraged?? They want to, but don’t see the big deal if girls are doing to too?? I can’t wholy blame girls for boys’ reluctance to serve at Mass, but whatever the reason, I could reach the conclusion that the less boys feel that being an altar boys is important, the LESS LIKELY HE WILL BECOME A PRIEST…thusly, a factor causing our priest “shortage”.

Vocations, indeed.

 

[Kielbasi]

Why don’t more boys become altar servers???

Years ago, there were a lot more boys available for the task. You had the school right there, the boys had to go to school, and altar boy duty was done right there.

Nowadays, mom and dad have to drive the kid down and stick around for the training, or drop him off and pick him up. A lot bigger of a deal and commitment for the parents (as well as the boy).

Opening up the ranks to girls widens the pool.

 

[Leeta]

I had to laugh when the one poster said that an altar girl might discern a vocation to be a reader or an EMHC and that to participate in Mass, one must do such things! I thought at first that the person must have been joking.
Ministries are carried out by ordinary Ministers, priests and deacons, not lay people. Lay people have apostolates.
Read, “The Hidden Treasure of the Holy Mass”, by St. Leonard of Port Maurice. He discusses the three general ways to participate in Holy Mass and it isn’t being an EMHC.
The ordinary ministers are called to distribute Holy Communion and to read the readings and the Gospel, not lay people. That is their calling, not ours.
Altar boys are possible priestly vocations. Also, my boys were the best altar boys around. The girls did not seem to know what the Mass was about. They wore distracting hair bows and were sloppy.
Boys at that age do not like girls and do not wnt to be around them. Boys have a harder time spiritually than girls. I know because I live with 8 of them. They are so easily distracted by toys that the spiritual side of their life can be forgotten or neglected. Serving at the altar is the perfect solution for their spiritual growth. They are doing something hands on and they are doing something important by assisting the priest and trying to save particles of the Host from falling.
For that reason alone, girls should pray in the pews and help with the mending and care of the altar linens and vestments.
Until the new interpretation was made by the Congregation in 1992, altar girls were a sign of disobedience. By the way, this disobedience in having altar girls was prevalent before the New Code of Cannon Law in 1983.
Altar girls have definitely been detrimental to boys having an opportunity to discern a priestly vocation before they become enthralled with materialism or impurity.

 

[David_B]

batteddy:

I say we officially institute more men into the offices of Acolyte and Lector and stop having any unofficial “readers” or “altar servers” or “EMCs”. Acolytes can official distribute communion if necessary.

I have to admit that I felt the same way as you about this, well until Pope John Paul II’s funeral and Pope Benedict’s installation Mass. At both Masses there were female readers. I think it’s safe to say that unofficial lay readers are here to stay for good.

 

[Purificator]

Many female altar servers around here end-up being 55 year old female wanna-be priests. It’s painful to watch many times…

 

[ekim61]

I recently returned to the Catholic Church after being absent for 25 years. I attended my first Mass several weeks ago and I said Wow they have Alter girls now.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It is a pleasuer to see young men and women serving God.

 

[misericordie]

YinYangMom:

Young girls these days need every bit of encouragement they can get to lead chaste lives.

The altar server’s role is to assist…I’ve never understood or accepted that only boys had the skills and sense to fulfill the obligations.

I could understand where altar servers being boys was like a stepping stone into the priesthood, but in reality, these days, in the West, it really serves to introduce and prepare young people to/for other ministries available as they mature in their faith/age.

Several of our young ladies have gone on to be Eucharistic Ministers, along with the boys…and from there, young men can consider the priesthood, while young women can consider vocations outside the priesthood.

Better yet, should the women choose the vocation of marriage, how wonderful it is that they have this background experience to share with her children someday as she guides them to become actively involved in the Church.

The only “eucharistic minister” as you put it, are the PRIESTS. Now in rare occasions, Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are used in a Mass with maybe 500 people attending and one priest.

 

[TJD]

When I help at alter server training I am sure to thank the kids for coming. I want them to understand that their efforts are appreciated. I want them to understand that what they are doing is important. (They help the priest focus on the Mass and the consecration) Based on some of the thoughts in this thread I should thank the boys more than the girls. Sorry, I treat them the same, boys and girls helping the priest on the alter.

I do not think that female alter servers are the root cause of the American shortage of priests. If we want more priests we need to help our children, no encourage our children to open their hearts to the Holy Spirit. I would be proud if my son became a priest, but to be honest I want grandkids. I know it’s not about what I want but what God wants. I will work to overcome my selfishness. I will pray to God to help me and my children to discern honestly. Will you?

Over all Diaconia said it best in post #58

…Encouraging more priestly vocations is probably mostly tied (in the US) to American families being less materialistic and selfish. And quit trying to vicariously re-live your own childhood by getting your kids involved in every sort of sport and extra-curricular activity….

Christ’s Peace,

TJD

 

[patg]

I think many look at this subject with the belief that it fosters vocations and other such such pious, unrealistic concepts. I became a server as soon as I was allowed and served as often as possible as did many of the boys in my school. Here’s why we did it:

• The entire school went to mass every day. Therefore if you served you had a comfortable place to be - not crammed into a small church like a sardine with over 600 sleeping, smelly, puking, snotty, coughing, restless other kids.
• You got to be late for class whenever you served or trained for serving
• You got to miss class and sometimes get paid for it whenever there was a wedding or funeral - a dream come true!
• You had to go to church on Sunday anyway, so you may as well be doing something rather than sleeping in the pews next to your parents
• Interesting things could always be done with the altar wine (although it usually wasn’t very good).

And just think if we could have also been socializing with girls - how great would that have been!!!

I don’t remember anyone even imagining that this all had anything to do with vocations and if it did, it failed miserably.

 

[Purificator]

misericordie:

The only “eucharistic minister” as you put it, are the PRIESTS. Now in rare occasions, Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are used in a Mass with maybe 500 people attending and one priest.

Bishops and deacons are also ordinary ministers of the Eucharist…

 

[Purificator]

** I think many look at this subject with the belief that it fosters vocations and other such such pious, unrealistic concepts.** I became a server as soon as I was allowed and served as often as possible as did many of the boys in my school. Here’s why we did it:

• The entire school went to mass every day. Therefore if you served you had a comfortable place to be - not crammed into a small church like a sardine with over 600 sleeping, smelly, puking, snotty, coughing, restless other kids.
• You got to be late for class whenever you served or trained for serving
• You got to miss class and sometimes get paid for it whenever there was a wedding or funeral - a dream come true!
• You had to go to church on Sunday anyway, so you may as well be doing something rather than sleeping in the pews next to your parents
• Interesting things could always be done with the altar wine (although it usually wasn’t very good).

And just think if we could have also been socializing with girls - how great would that have been!!!

I don’t remember anyone even imagining that this all had anything to do with vocations and if it did, it failed miserably.

Your assertion is simply incorrect. Serving at the altar is a wonderful way to foster a possible vocation to the priesthood or diaconate.

While a few boys may serve Mass for the sad reasons you have suggested, it certainly wouldn’t be the primary reasons – at least around here.

 

[Stu]

Diaconia:

This is an interesting issue. etc.

Nice post Deacon. I especially like points you made in the end. I have two sons and two daughters and can think of nothing better than if they all chose a vocation.

While I don’t think it prudent to have female altar servers I do agree that since the Church permits it then it is a settled issue for the most part. I do believe however there is still room to discuss this issue, devoid of emotion of course, and therefore hope for an eventual change.

I too have had the privilege and honor of leading and training altar servers at my parish which included both boys and girls. I would agree that in general individual girls for the most part follow directions better and are more mature than the boys. But it is precisely for that reason that I believe serving on the altar should be limited to boys (males).

To become men, both spiritually and maturity-wise, young boys need structure (as most would agree). Serving on the altar in a male only setting provides an avenue for that structure and in that structure helps our young men better focus on God and ultimately on the priesthood. In a male only setting the problems you mentioned (following directions, maturity) would be mitigated as groups of young men tend to police themselves ensuring everyone stay within the norms of expected behavior. Unfortunately, the addition of just one female to this mix disrupts that cohesion and rigidity of standards and from there all bets are off. I’ve seen it time and time again in the military.

God of course calls all of us in some way. Furthermore, I believe it is evident that this calling is different for men and women as we each have roles to carry out with neither role being greater than the other, both being essential. Since the time of Adam, man has failed in his role to spiritually lead his family. We even see it in the Church today with families who regularly attend Mass, except for Dad who stays home (usually for some stupid reason). Women contine to volunteer to the point that the cantors are predominantly women, readers are predominanty women, EMHCs are predominantly women, ushers/greeters are predominanty women, etc. Is it any wonder then that many out there seem to think that women clergy is also acceptable. It’s time in my opinion for the Church to address this overarching issue by calling upon and challenging the men of the Church to stand up and become participating members that lead by example and truly are the spiritual heads of their family instead of repeating the sins of Adam. Going back to all male altar servers is a begining step in my opinion.

On a side note, being in the military has allowed me to see many different parishs. While not scientific, those that had all male servers were much more reverent during Mass and packed every Sunday. Probably more indicative than causal but I would say it goes to show orthodox parishs seem to fourish.

 

[jordan]

patg:

I don’t remember anyone even imagining that this all had anything to do with vocations and if it did, it failed miserably.

I can see why you don’t. It was all about **you **from what you posted.

Catholic2003:

Pope John Paul II might have never said that personally, but the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts did so with its authentic interpretation that I quoted above. The dubium asked whether canon 230 §2 gave permission for female altar servers. The “Affirmative” response is pretty clear to those who follow the magisterium of the Church instead of their own personal preferences

Catholic2003, I believe you are reading something into Canon 230, and into the response to the dubium.

First, 230.2 did not give permission for female altar servers. Here’s the quotation from the Vatican website:

Can. 230 §1. Lay men who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte.
§2. Lay persons can fulfill the function of lector in liturgical actions by temporary designation. All lay persons can also perform the functions of commentator or cantor, or other functions, according to the norm of law.

“Other functions, according to the norm of law” would not have included acolyte, or altar server, since this was not according to the norm of law. Now, if you would go back and look at the “dubium” you posted, it did not say “female altar server.” It referred to “service at the altar,” which does not equal “altar server.” “Service at the altar” is a phrase which could be linked to the specifically permitted functions for all laity, such as lector, cantor (or EMHC). Also, the “affirmative” response pointed to an instruction “to be given.” In other words, there was no specific permission for female altar servers, and because of the confusing verbiage, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments came out with the 1994 letter clarifying the situation.

Lastly, the Church’s official position is this:

"47. It is altogether** laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys** or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. … Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms." Redemptionis Sacramentum (March 2004)

I would maintain that, in general, to encourage girls is to discourage boys. The Church does not want to discourage boys. What to do?

Blessings,
jb

 

[patg]

jordan:

I can see why you don’t. It was all about **you **from what you posted.

DUH, it was me it was supposed to be influencing towards a vocation, wasn’t it? I never said we weren’t also trying to serve God, I was just listing the things that enhanced the eperience.

And we should not be so incredibly naive as to forget that for preteens and teens, most everything is about ME - that’s just the way it is.