Female Altar Servers

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The earliest masses were underground, done in the home of the Church members. Most likely the Women would have done much to organize services done in their home. They also were likely to serve as an early “Alter Server,” due to gratitude for their efforts, or shortage of help.
 
I think it is probably true that there were always female altar servers in some form. When I was a child in the 1950’s, they had a strange rule that women were not allowed on the priest’s side of the communion railing. There were only ladies at daily Mass, and many times there were no altar boys. So what did the priest do? He asked one of the ladies to do the altar boy’s responses from the front pew. The responses were all in Latin. In our prayer books, there were two columns. One column showed the Mass in Latin, and the other showed it in English, so you would know what the Latin meant. All she had to do was read the responses from her prayer book.

The original poster was wondering what the altar girls would be preparing for. Well, for a short time, I was one of the Eucharistic Ministers who brought Communion to the home bound. In order to do this, I had to read most of the main Mass prayers and summarize what the priest said in the homily. It kind of freaked me out, because I certainly wasn’t used to doing this sort of thing.

Whenever we have a Communion Service (when no priest is available for daily Mass), it is always a woman who conducts the service. Some women serve as “pastors” of Catholic parishes. They are responsible for running the parish, with a priest available to do the Sacraments. I could go on and on. I’m sure that being an altar girl is a very useful experience that gets you over your fear of being up near the altar in front of everybody.
 
whatevergirl said:
actually, adults serve sometimes, during the early early (6:45am) weekday masses…because kids are in heading to school, at that time. I have also seen adults serve on the weekends, but it’s rare, I think.
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I’m an adult, I serve daily. Many churches around here have adult altar servers, even for weekend mass.
 
EBSSTF4 said:
The earliest masses were underground, done in the home of the Church members. Most likely the Women would have done much to organize services done in their home. They also were likely to serve as an early “Alter Server,” due to gratitude for their efforts, or shortage of help.
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Very good point. Going back to our roots is what Pope John Paul ll asked of all the faithful. It is sad that some refuse to believe that the church had traditions before Trent and before Vat ll.:hmmm:
 
plato3 said:
Very good point. Going back to our roots is what Pope John Paul ll asked of all the faithful. It is sad that some refuse to believe that the church had traditions before Trent and before Vat ll.:hmmm:
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It isn’t so much a matter of refusing to acknowledge traditions before Trent or Vatican II…

We are not in the position to change tradition ourselves. Nor do we simply get the option to pick and choose which ones we like.

Saying that women most likely served the altar in some capacity in the early church is a wonderful theory. However, we don’t know in what capacity they would have.

In the very early church, when the first Christians were still practicing Judaism, I would imagine that the seperation of the sexes which occurred during all public prayer would have probably carried over to the Christians. Such was their tradition.

We rely on the Holy Mother Church to guide us through these changing times and make changes where changes, first of all, can be made, and second of all, should be made.

But if we are going to sit there and play the “I think Jesus would have wanted it this way even though I have no scripture or recorded tradition to back up what I am saying” then I think we are starting to dabble in the theology of people like these women who get “ordained” and send petitions to the Pope to recognize them.
 
TimOliv said:
It isn’t so much a matter of refusing to acknowledge traditions before Trent or Vatican II…

We are not in the position to change tradition ourselves. Nor do we simply get the option to pick and choose which ones we like.

Saying that women most likely served the altar in some capacity in the early church is a wonderful theory. However, we don’t know in what capacity they would have.

In the very early church, when the first Christians were still practicing Judaism, I would imagine that the seperation of the sexes which occurred during all public prayer would have probably carried over to the Christians. Such was their tradition.

We rely on the Holy Mother Church to guide us through these changing times and make changes where changes, first of all, can be made, and second of all, should be made.

But if we are going to sit there and play the “I think Jesus would have wanted it this way even though I have no scripture or recorded tradition to back up what I am saying” then I think we are starting to dabble in the theology of people like these women who get “ordained” and send petitions to the Pope to recognize them.
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We will have to agree to disagree.EBSSTF4 identified a real tradition to show that there is a reference in our history to women serving. It was well know that wealthy women provided their homes for the early Christians to celebrate Mass. Mass was not in Latin. People stood around the altar. Some like to pick and chose the traditions that they want to remember. No need to go into ordination of women. Nobody said that. Women altar servers serve at the altar in churches in Rome. Just like old times.
 
plato3 said:
. It was well know that wealthy women provided their homes for the early Christians to celebrate Mass. .
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Yes, but do you have any documentation from primary sources that state that those same women served at Mass in any liturgical role what so ever?

Any quotes from Church Fathers from the time, perhaps a Roman historian like Pliny the Younger?
 
I’m not fond of the idea of girl’s serving at the altar, because it CAN and has often been a source of vocations to the priesthood. I fell, however, that it should be pointed out that the connection between altar serving and the priesthood isn’t absolute. Most boys who serve don’t go on to become priests. Some do, but it may well have been that the inclination to become a priest is what lead them to serve at the altar.

Brendan: A server’s role isn’t any more “liturgical” than the congregations. They’re simply assistants TO the priest, not priests themselves.They merely hand the priests all the materials needed to confect the Sacrifice. They no longer (thank goodness) make the responses on behalf of the congregation.

My take on it is that the Holy See has allowed it and we shouldn’t harp on it continually.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
My take on it is that the Holy See has allowed it and we shouldn’t harp on it continually.
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That’s your take on everything, Kirk. Just because the Holy See allows something doesn’t mean we have to docilely accept it like a bunch of lobotomized sheep. Contrary to what the anti-Catholics regularly claim, we aren’t a bunch of mind-numbed robots who must accept every word that comes from Rome as if it’s the voice of Christ Himself.

“Harping” is what gave us girl altar boys in the first place, in addition to outright disobedience. Perhaps “harping” can reverse this grievous error.
 
Dr.Bombay said:
“Harping” is what gave us girl altar boys in the first place, in addition to outright disobedience. Perhaps “harping” can reverse this grievous error.
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Service at the Altar was reduced to a laity role in 1983.

Are you saying that baptized Catholic girls are not members of the laity?
 
adrift said:
This is an interesting thread or could be one.:rolleyes:
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Exacly. And thanks to everyone who up to now has attempted to make it an interesting thread. I agree; the best thing about my original query was in its being potentially interesting. Not actually interesting; just potentially so.

When I said I would like to have the “why” I meant the same thing as desiring the argument. As in, “argument” in the technical sense. That is, what are the reasons offered by those in the Church for introducing female altar servers? Why is/was it a good idea? Why permit it, in other words?

I really am drawn to the aspect of our Church that makes it so reasonable and so public. That is, the Holy See rarely (if ever) just comes down in dictate form to the people and says “We will now do X…and that’s that! So, you want the reason for X? It’s because we say so!!” Our beloved Church gives reasons for its actions.

So, I was assuming that some here might be able to give some of the reasons (or arguments) for why having female altar servers is such a good idea. It looks peculiar to me; to say the least. And I had thought that a woman’s inability to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders was reason enough to have, if any children at all as servers, only boys. I can follow that line of reasoning. It is sensible.

Another poster said that it’s questionable that having boy altar servers is a great way to increase vocations. I would probably tend to agree, if there is not much else spiritually going on in that boy’s life. That would be equivalent to saying that sending my child to 1 hour a week PSR catechism class is enough to teach him the Catholic Faith. :o Ha! I don’t think so.

But, even though several have replied here (and I thank you for it) I still feel deprived of those reasons for having female altar servers. When there is at least one prima facie argument against the practice–to wit, that they will never serve at the altar as adults–it makes the practice at least peculiar. I don’t know how to get around that.

So, if anyone (e.g., an advocate of the practice) has any more to present I’d love to hear it. Is the Vatican document calling for the permissibility of the practice a few years ago posted on the Internet? Perhaps on Vatican.va? I can’t find it, if it is.
 
plato3 said:
Very good point. Going back to our roots is what Pope John Paul ll asked of all the faithful. It is sad that some refuse to believe that the church had traditions before Trent and before Vat ll.:hmmm:
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Really- he asked the faithful to return to pre-Trent traditions. Do you have documentation for this.

He did say the follow in Ecclesia de Eucharistia—and it sure does not seem that he is refering to pre-Trent traditions.

vatican.va/edocs/ENG0821/__P7.HTM

CHAPTER FIVE

THE DIGNITY
OF THE EUCHARISTIC CELEBRATION
  1. All of this makes clear the great responsibility which belongs to priests in particular for the celebration of the Eucharist. It is their responsibility to preside at the Eucharist in persona Christi and to provide a witness to and a service of communion not only for the community directly taking part in the celebration, but also for the universal Church, which is a part of every Eucharist. It must be lamented that, especially in the years following the post-conciliar liturgical reform, as a result of a misguided sense of creativity and adaptation there have been a number of abuses which have been a source of suffering for many. A certain reaction against “formalism” has led some, especially in certain regions, to consider the “forms” chosen by the Church’s great liturgical tradition and her Magisterium as non-binding and to introduce unauthorized innovations which are often completely inappropriate.
 
Magnanimity said:
So, if anyone (e.g., an advocate of the practice) has any more to present I’d love to hear it. Is the Vatican document calling for the permissibility of the practice a few years ago posted on the Internet? Perhaps on Vatican.va? I can’t find it, if it is.
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Okay - I’m assuming everyone knows this, but maybe there are some who don’t.

At one time (prior to 1983) an Altar server was an instituted acolyte - an Ordained member of the clergy. Thus, “boys only” because women and girls can’t be Ordained clergy.

In 1983, a number of Clergy functions (including Altar server) were reduced to laity roles. There are now (since 1983) only three Clergy functions: Deacon, Priest, and Bishop.

Women are laity. Always have been. All Baptized Catholics are members of the laity.

The argument that went to Rome was, “If Altar server is a laity role now, then can women and girls (being members of the laity) take on this role?”

The answer that came back in 1994(?) was “Yes, they can.”

Rome was not “pressured” or “bullied” into saying “Yes.” They simply examined the facts, did their due diligence, and came back with the answer that made (and continues to make) perfect sense.
 
Magnanimity said:
I have no desire to engage in a kind of tit-for-tat. But, in reply to the above it would seem that there are innumerable other ways of serving the Church, outside of one which will be impossible for them to realize when they become adults. Again, I’m wondering what their service is oriented toward. But, you mention the possibility of opening doors to consideration of a Religious life. I had considered that this might be part of the argument. And it would seem to be the strongest reason that occurred to me just thinking about it. However, of course, nuns don’t serve at the altar. And given that fact, it is at least questionable that to engage in an act for 7 or so years (an act like serving at the altar), which will absolutely stop upon entering the possible age for a Religious vocation seems disconnected.
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Serving at the altar does not necessarily stop upon entering the possilbe age for a religious vocation. My parish has adult altar servers at funeral Masses. They don’t pull the children out of school for this, but they have a team of adult men and women who volunteer to serve whenever there is a need for them at a funeral Mass.
 
🙂 to mag I hope this will help explain how it has worked for the good of the lord in our church, if you are not familiar with the mass you may not comprhend it all so I will do my best to help. Our girl servers help with the wine and hosts so they are learning right up front what it means they never touch them as the priest is the one to concentcrate. We have some men and women who take the hossts to the ill and homebound so there you have them allready learned the respectfullness of the hosts. We have lay people who read the scriptures so if the girls learn to be up front then they read better as they get older, a good way to sscreen the readers. They learn about resposes and they actually may be getting the only scripture reading in their life depending how long they are at our church. On thursday morning mass the children are all at the service so the father lets many of them help during the entire service so they see the others all taking turns doing various things except of course the wine and hossts they see us adults recive communion after them so they observe our actiions and we don’t mind it is only one day a week.The boys and girls are equally treated and on mondays our nun does the service with the hosts father has allready concecrated gives him a day off except he runs all day everyday visiting and inviting people to church (invite) is his specific term we are to use. When he is at a conference we all know what to do as we are comfortable with the children and they are comfortable with us because we are all at the table together receiving the bread of life and I am comfortable with that as I need to be on good behavior as father says because these young ones are watching hope this helps you love in christ and His mercy
Desert with one s ,return from :love:
 
jmcrae said:
The argument that went to Rome was,** “If Altar server is a laity role now, then can women and girls (being members of the laity) take on this role?” **

The answer that came back in 1994(?) was “Yes, they can.”

Rome was not “pressured” or “bullied” into saying “Yes.” They simply examined the facts, did their due diligence, and came back with the answer that made (and continues to make) perfect sense.
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I would venture to say that NO ONE asked that question of Rome. You make it sound like the question was asked first, and then little girls were invited to serve.

The facts are different.

Liberal, modernist laity is some parishes, with the “permission” of priests who should have known better, began inducting girls into the groups of altar boys.

It took but a short time for the abuse to become a popular fad, grown in numbers, and get the attention of some bishops… and they caved by looking for reasons to say okay (gotta keep those collection baskets full… which my own bishop is know to have said more than once.)

So now the abuse is still an abuse… but it is called a norm… and hopefully the new generation of Catholics will provide their sons as servers, and the girlaltarboy abuse will fad(e) away.

.
 
Dr.Bombay said:
You think???

Just be thankful you didn’t have to face the juggernaut of the Royals in the playoffs. The very thought terrifies, doesn’t it? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/20_3_48.gif
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smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gifto female altar servers

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gif to your Royal

but thanks to what they did, the Twins got woopped, and the Tigers had to crank it up a notch.

.

%between%
 
Magnanimity said:
Is the Vatican document calling for the permissibility of the practice a few years ago posted on the Internet? Perhaps on Vatican.va?
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Here’s what the 2004 Instruction Redemtionis Sacramentum has to say on the subject:

“47. It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes. Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.”

Hope that helps.
 
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