Female Altar Servers

[adrift]

The majority of boys won’t, either. Why should a boy who is planning to get married serve at the Altar, either?

But the point is that they might become priest whereas the girl will never become a priest

I guess the real question is, why did the Vatican open this role to lay people? Why is it not restricted any more only to boys in youth seminary?

This is off subject but you could start your own thread with this question.

 

[Brendan]

Congratulations!! Voluntary service at a young age produces wonderful results, doesn’t it?

What is your parish doing for the girls?

They sing in the choir (the teens) and the younger girls usually bring up the offetory.

BTW, did I also mention that our parish has 3 young women in Noviate programs into various religious orders, so not having the girls perform altar service hasn’t resulted in a lack in consecrated vocations for the women either.

All three are going into habited orders BTW, including one that is professing into Mother Theresa’s Missionaries of Charity.

 

[Brendan]

I guess the real question is, why did the Vatican open this role to lay people? Why is it not restricted any more only to boys in youth seminary?

To get more boys interested in entering the priesthood.

The most recent letter from the Vatican (Congregation for Divine Worship and the Disciple of the Sacraments) on the subject quotes Pope John Paul II’s orginal letter permitting girls to serve at the altar

In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since “it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar” (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the “well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations” (cf. ibid.)

Notitiae - 421-422 Vol 37 (2001) Num/ 8-9 - pp 397-399

John Paul seemed to consider altar service for boys to be an assistance in encouraging priestly vocations, so that’s good enough for me

 

[Dr.Bombay]

I guess the real question is, why did the Vatican open this role to lay people? Why is it not restricted any more only to boys in youth seminary?

Modernism.

 

[jmcrae]

Modernism.

Are you Catholic? (Just wondering.)

Accusing the Church of Modernism is a very serious charge - you want to have some solid evidence to back that up.

 

[jmcrae]

They sing in the choir (the teens) and the younger girls usually bring up the offetory.

BTW, did I also mention that our parish has 3 young women in Noviate programs into various religious orders, so not having the girls perform altar service hasn’t resulted in a lack in consecrated vocations for the women either.

All three are going into habited orders BTW, including one that is professing into Mother Theresa’s Missionaries of Charity.

GREAT!!

This is really nice to see.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Are you Catholic? (Just wondering.)

Accusing the Church of Modernism is a very serious charge - you want to have some solid evidence to back that up.

I have evidence. Girl altar boys. Haven’t you been paying attention?

 

[MrS]

Are you Catholic? (Just wondering.)

Accusing the Church of Modernism is a very serious charge - you want to have some solid evidence to back that up.

Dr B is very much a Catholic…

but Modernism has crept into the Church in the last century… unless you want to call Bishop Sheen and like minded shepherds goofy…

separate the Church from those in it … if you can

.

 

[whatevergirl]

Of course, it doesn’t necessarily follow that there is something ‘right’ about them either.

They are simply ‘allowed’

Exactly,

In our parish we rightly encourage vocations by having only altarboys.

And likewise, when I visit another parish, I try not to focus on how many vocations are being lost in that parish by having girls server instead of boys.

being an altar boy on Sundays, and deciding to lead a celibate life forever, and devote one’s life to the priesthood…are two different things. we are not losing vocations to altar girls…we are losing vocations largely due to secularization…and the fact that the priesthood has lost respect, sadly, over the years, because of the scandals. to think altar girls are bringing these vocational numbers down is fooling ourselves. no offense…i respect your thoughts, but to say that serving as an altar boy causes one to be more likely to be a priest is rather a stretch.

 

[Brendan]

. to think altar girls are bringing these vocational numbers down is fooling ourselves. no offense…i respect your thoughts, but to say that serving as an altar boy causes one to be more likely to be a priest is rather a stretch.

Read my post above (#121) Pope John Paul seems to disagree with your premise.

As does the experiences I have seen.

As I mentioned, we have 6 men from our parish in the seminary right now, and 3 men from our parish have been ordained in the last 5 years.

We also have 3 women in Noviate programs into the convent.

How many men from your parish are in the seminary right now?

How many women from your parish are entering religious life?

Have you asked yourself why and what your parish can do to combat it?

If secularization is the problem, would it not be better to make your parish a haven from secularization; including the secular view of what “sexual equality” means?

 

[whatevergirl]

Read my post above (#121) Pope John Paul seems to disagree with your premise.

As does the experiences I have seen.

As I mentioned, we have 6 men from our parish in the seminary right now, and 3 men from our parish have been ordained in the last 5 years.

We also have 3 women in Noviate programs into the convent.

How many men from your parish are in the seminary right now?

How many women from your parish are entering religious life?

Have you asked yourself why and what your parish can do to combat it?

If secularization is the problem, would it not be better to make your parish a haven from secularization; including the secular view of what “sexual equality” means?

Oh, I definitely do not think women should be priests, largely due to the fact that Jesus selected 12 males…no question about that. But, Jesus looked upon men and women equally. I am not seeing the correlation between female altar servers and the priesthood…I do see what you are saying…but…I’m not seeing that this would improve the numbers of men entering the priesthood. My daughter is an altar server…and she simply looks at it as serving the church that asked her to do this. I mean…why doesn’t the Church disallow this, if it has potential dangers to it?

 

[Brendan]

Oh, I definitely do not think women should be priests, largely due to the fact that Jesus selected 12 males…no question about that. But, Jesus looked upon men and women equally.

But He did not create them to serve in the same litugical roles. Equal roles, but different ones.

I am not seeing the correlation between female altar servers and the priesthood…I do see what you are saying…but…I’m not seeing that this would improve the numbers of men entering the priesthood.

Here is JPII on the subject

"it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar… Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations" -This is from the “Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference”, dated March 15, 1994, paragraph no. 2

Do you disagree with the Pope’s understanding that the “noble tradition” of having male altar servers has provided well known assistance in encouraging vocations?

My daughter is an altar server…and she simply looks at it as serving the church that asked her to do this.

And that is ALL she can look at it as. While a boy could look at it as a stepping stone to the priesthood.

And is her presence detering some boys in the parish from stepping forward, since they now view altar service as a girl’s job?

I mean…why doesn’t the Church disallow this, if it has potential dangers to it?

It has few dangers,per se, other than possibly promoting a secular view of gender roles, rather than a Catholic Liturgical understanding.

But it carries few benefits in terms of vocations.

 

[Brendan]

And I would still like an answer to my question.

How many men from your parish are in the seminary right now, and how many women are in the process of professing to religious life?

 

[davy39]

Here’s what the 2004 Instruction Redemtionis Sacramentum has to say on the subject:

“47. It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes. Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.”

Hope that helps.

It sure does! I hope this ends the useless arguing and bickering once and for all. In our diocese, (Toledo, Oh) the Bishop has said they may serve. So what’s the problem? I’m sure we have more important things to discuss that this subject all the time.

 

[plato3]

It sure does! I hope this ends the useless arguing and bickering once and for all. In our diocese, (Toledo, Oh) the Bishop has said they may serve. So what’s the problem? I’m sure we have more important things to discuss that this subject all the time.

That’s not fair! Can’t we pick and chose the instructions that we like? The ones that support our opinion?:banghead:

 

[TimOliv]

No, not “just anybody” can “traipse up there.”

A girl Altar server is not “just anybody.” She has been appointed for service by her priest. People don’t just appoint themselves as Altar servers, or anything else.

And nobody is allowed up on the Altar whom the priest has not specifically appointed to be there as his helper. Ever.

I have heard of people just “traipsing” up on to the Altar for whatever reason, and YES, this is an abuse of the Mass. But girl Altar servers have been appointed, and are there because they have been appointed to be there by the priest.

Protestants and heathens are still not allowed up there. And even baptized Catholics, if they have not been specificially appointed to some service, are not allowed up there.

At many (too many) churches the selection and training of altar servers has been delegated to lay persons. This means the priest has pretty much no hand in their formation. I would suspect that having, say, a woman from the altar and rosary society who has never served a mass training the altar servers could indeed be part of the problem.

 

[TimOliv]

It sure does! I hope this ends the useless arguing and bickering once and for all. In our diocese, (Toledo, Oh) the Bishop has said they may serve. So what’s the problem? I’m sure we have more important things to discuss that this subject all the time.

No one has disputed what the church says. You see, I think folks like you misunderstand the purpose of the discussion boards. We know what the church teaches, this is a smattering of everyone’s opinions on the matter.

Now, for the enlightened soul who will undoubtedly tell me that our opinions matter not, only the decisions of our Holy Church, you are correct. But that is why we are sharing them on a discussion board and not, say, sending petitions to Rome (like the “womenpriests”)

 

[paramedicgirl]

No one has disputed what the church says. You see, I think folks like you misunderstand the purpose of the discussion boards. We know what the church teaches, this is a smattering of everyone’s opinions on the matter.

Now, for the enlightened soul who will undoubtedly tell me that our opinions matter not, only the decisions of our Holy Church, you are correct. But that is why we are sharing them on a discussion board and not, say, sending petitions to Rome (like the “womenpriests”)

Yes, just because the Church has tolerated females serving at the altar, doesn’t mean we have to like it.

 

[Magnanimity]

Being an Altar server is not the same thing as being a priest.

{…}

A priest is now free, should he so choose, to ask a woman or girl to assist him as an Altar server at Mass, in addition to still being able to ask boys and men to do this, as well, because the role of Altar server is now officially classified as a lay role; it is no longer the first step towards Ordination to the priesthood.

Here is a quote from Redemtionis Sacramentum (2004) of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments, supplied above by “Servurus,”
Here’s what the 2004 Instruction Redemtionis Sacramentum has to say on the subject:

“47. It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes. Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.”

Being such an advocate of the “if the Vatican says it” position, I hope you will look at the italicized (by me) portions above. Clearly, the Vatican does recognize and says we should continue to recognize the natural and historical link between alter serving and sacerdotal ordination. Also, ironically I think, the document quoted above does not even attempt to give reasons for why female altar servers is a good idea - of the reasons it should be permitted.

I have to agree with “adrift.” The original query of this thread is going unanswered.

To give the “what” of a practice is not to automatically give the “why;” anymore than knowing what you believe is the same as knowing why you believe it. They are quite distinct. And although everyone is in a hurry to point out that femal altar serving is legit, via the Vatican, no one seems to be in much of a hurry of providing any reasonable support (in the form of argument) for the practice.

 

[davy39]

That’s not fair! Can’t we pick and chose the instructions that we like? The ones that support our opinion?:banghead:

What’s not fair about it? There are people that don’t like receiving Holy Communion in the hand. There are people that don’t like saturday evening Mass. There are people that don’t like the Mass in english. There are people that don’t like Gregorian chant. It goes on and on. Have we turned into a church of complainers? Sure, everybody can state their own opinion on these boards, but some subjects have been rehashed and rehashed to the point of being ridiculous. As far as I’m concerned, if the Vatican says it’s OK, that’s all I need.