Female Altar Servers

[adrift]

I mean lets get serious about this, the main reason for the altar servers in the first place was to make the responses. You don’t need them for that anymore. So maybe at least in the Pauline Mass they are an institution whose time has passed.

You have some points.

You did forget the handwashing. My husband serves as altar server. He does not go on to the altar just before the gifts are brought up and he leaves after the handwashing. This is all that the server is needed for because they have eliminated the patten. Although, I don’t think it was suppose to be eliminated.

 

[TimOliv]

I know a lot of folks see those opposed to female altar servers as simply not accepting changes instituted by VII. However there are some very important things to consider when making such a claim.

1. Female Altar Servers didn’t come about for 20 years after the Second Vatican Council
2. The Vatican never said we need female altar servers, instead, permission to allow girls to serve on the altar was left to the discretion of each Bishop.
3. Each Bishop (with a few exceptions I am sure) left the decision to permit girls to serve on the altar up to the Parish Priest. The Bishop will not force a priest to appoint female altar servers. Of course, if you are the parish priest and you do away with it, you have to put up with the whining and threats of changing parishes.

So really, why don’t we play it like this. All opposed to female altar servers, let’s get all of you together and form a bunch of parishes, and everyone else can have their parishes. There we go.

But let’s not go saying that because a person thinks only boys should be serving that they are “stuck in the past,”

And as a sidebar, let’s everyone pray for more vocations. If we get enough seminarians, then we can just hand serving to them and quit appointing EMHCs while we’re at it!

 

[whatevergirl]

I look at the model of last weeks Gospel.

Christ said that He allowed Moses to permit divorce due to the ‘hardness of their hearts’. Of course, that meant the loss of the Sacramental Nature of Marriage, but the Isrealites prefered that loss so that they could be able to divorce.

In many ways, the example is the same. For many years prior to 1994, certain pastors decided to allow girls to serve at the altar. This was in direct disobedience to the Holy Father.

But they did so anyway out of some misguided concept of ‘equality’ in liturgucal roles.

So, in 1994, the Holy Father issued his Circular Letter, allowing this practice, but at the same time, in the same letter, he let them know specifically on what they would be missing out on by allowing this.

divorce and girls serving during mass is like comparing a steak and a peanut butter sandwich. I understand your point in reference to Moses, but that is a doctrine. Girls serving during mass is not sinful, like divorce can be, if we remarry without an annulment for example. The question isn’t why are girls serving…the question is…why aren’t there enough interested boys in serving?

 

[whatevergirl]

Just from what I see a lot of altar servers do these days, sit around looking bored most of the time, I am tempted to say there is no real reason for them anymore. The Priest really doesn’t need someone to hold the book of prayers, the gifts could easily be brought all the way into the sanctuary by the bearers and given the fact that the priest is considered merely someone presiding over the celebration rather than one re-presenting the Holy Sacrifice, he could certainly pick up the cruets and hosts himself.

I mean lets get serious about this, the main reason for the altar servers in the first place was to make the responses. You don’t need them for that anymore. So maybe at least in the Pauline Mass they are an institution whose time has passed.

that’s the thing though…my daughter views serving as an honor…she really does, and never looks bored. i think she is most grateful for this privilege to help father during mass.

 

[TimOliv]

divorce and girls serving during mass is like comparing a steak and a peanut butter sandwich. I understand your point in reference to Moses, but that is a doctrine. Girls serving during mass is not sinful, like divorce can be, if we remarry without an annulment for example. The question isn’t why are girls serving…the question is…why aren’t there enough interested boys in serving?

I’ll field this one…

The answer is simply this. Somehow, over time, the altar servers have gotten further and further away from their intended purpose. At the time when I was training, the training was conducted by the parish priest. The Sacristan wrote the schedule, but the priest (asst. pastor) administered the altar server program. Nowadays, if I see a deacon in charge of the program, I consider that parish particularly lucky. Why does it matter?

The majority of the time I see something in parishes. I see a place to sign up to become an altar server or a contact number. There is no screening process and the training is largely “on the job.” Many, many, many churches I have visited do not train altar servers prior to their first mass. They simply send the new person out with a senior altar server and hope for the best.

The churches which have a priest overseeing the altar servers enjoy a few added bonuses. And, as I list these, note they are generalizations, some lay persons do a very good job and some priests do a terrible job, however, by far, this has not been my experience. A priest overseeing the program generally results in better trained and more disciplined altar servers. When a priest is in charge, I do not see altar servers wearing shorts and sneakers. When a priest is in charge, altar servers do not forget to hold the sacramentary for the priest, sit and play with their hair, their cinctures or their own fingers, and they most definitely do NOT twirl patens as if they were batons.

How does this affect how many boys take part?

Boys like discipline. Think about it logically, what are some good traditionally boy-oriented activities? Karate, football, baseball…

All of which require attentiveness, responsibility and active participation.

If your altar server program has no discipline, then the boys will rather sleep in on sundays or do something that challenges them.

As for why so many girls are active and excel on the altar. Well, I’m sure finding people who believe that girls mature faster than boys would not be a difficult thing. But at the age we are permitting children to serve, we shouldn’t be relying on only the responsible ones to do the job, we should be shaping them into the responsible adults of tomorrow.

Rant complete

 

[jmcrae]

Boys like discipline. Think about it logically, what are some good traditionally boy-oriented activities? Karate, football, baseball…

All of which require attentiveness, responsibility and active participation.

Girls like discipline, too. Think about it - hopscotch, double-dutch, skipping, jacks, ball hockey - all activities that require coordination, concentration, sharing, and teamwork.

If your altar server program has no discipline, then the boys will rather sleep in on sundays or do something that challenges them.

It would probably put the girls to sleep, too. A lack of discipline in the Altar server program is not caused by the fact that there are girls in it. Girls do not cause a lack of discipline - lazy leadership causes this.

If the same lazy leadership is told that they are only allowed to have boys, then you are just going to end up with all untrained boys up there, instead of a mix of untrained boys and untrained girls.

 

[TimOliv]

Girls like discipline, too. Think about it - hopscotch, double-dutch, skipping, jacks, ball hockey - all activities that require coordination, concentration, sharing, and teamwork.

It would probably put the girls to sleep, too. A lack of discipline in the Altar server program is not caused by the fact that there are girls in it. Girls do not cause a lack of discipline - lazy leadership causes this.

If the same lazy leadership is told that they are only allowed to have boys, then you are just going to end up with all untrained boys up there, instead of a mix of untrained boys and untrained girls.

…I never said that girls participating in the program makes the program lack discipline. Please re-read my post if that was what you took from it.

I was responding to the post claiming there are no boys stepping up to the plate. My answer was simple, discipline. In the parishes with disciplined altar servers, their ranks are full, male and female, with quality altar servers. Cut the discipline, and you will get sub-standard performance. No one ever said the program lacks discipline because girls are part of it.

 

[jmcrae]

Oh, I see - thanks!!

Yes, I completely agree - good discipline in the Altar server program is absolutely essential.

 

[CRW]

Hi all!

I’m sure this has probably been covered here time and again, so please excuse my inquiring mind at this moment. But, I would simply like to know why girls serve at the altar when apparently women never will (cf. ordinatio sacerdotalis)? I simply want to hear the argument for why they should be serving at the altar if they will never be priests or deacons. I’m not being combative. I really would like to read a forceful argument for why girls should serve at the altar. For boys, I can see the argument of their serving leading possibly to increased sacerdotal vocations. I just want to encounter the argument by a strong advocate of female alter servers. Even if the argument comes from the Vatican, a theologian, layperson, or what have you.

I’ve wondered about this for some time now. Can anyone help me out?

This link ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur19.htm is an answer provided by Fr. Edward McNamaro Professor of Liturgy at the Regena Apostolorum Pontifical Athenaeum.

Personally, I was an Altar Server when girls were not allowed (in my Church). The age requirement or educational level requirement was 4th or 5th grade. Today I see 1st or 2nd graders serving at the altar. I do believe that girls mature at an earlier age then boys. Young boys 6 or 7 may not be mature enough to have the desire to serve; with or without girls. Thus we have more and more girls trained at the early age to become Altar Servers and as the young boys age their “feelings” may change to not serve with girls that already have 3 or 4 years experience.

I also see this in our Catholic choirs. Catholic’s can sing, but many churches do not allow nor have children choirs. How can we build a future choir of adults without the training at an earlier age? The Church I attend has over 1600 families but only 10 to 15 members in the choir. I would suggest that if we had children choirs, the majority would be girls and thus they would be in the choir, not Altar Servers. God Bless

 

[Brendan]

divorce and girls serving during mass is like comparing a steak and a peanut butter sandwich. I understand your point in reference to Moses, but that is a doctrine. Girls serving during mass is not sinful, like divorce can be, if we remarry without an annulment for example. The question isn’t why are girls serving…the question is…why aren’t there enough interested boys in serving?

Well, your question was “Why is it allowed” and I gave an example where God Himself allowed something that was not ideal, just because people were too hard hearted.

God withheld the Sacramental Nature of Marriage from the Isrealites because they would rather have divorce than the greater good of Sacramental Grace.

So in that respect, the situations are similar. Certain bishops and pastors were so set in their misconceptions of what gender equality actually meant that they even incurred the sin of disobedience rather than submit to the Pope in this regard.

So it’s not unlikely that the Holy Father relieved them of their disobedence so they would not continue in their sin in that way again, but in the same document, he let them know what they would be missing out on, the blessing of more vocations.

 

[AlexV]

Long before girls and women were “allowed” to serve the Mass, various priests…and bishops…allowed the practice.

By 1994, when the famous “Circular Letter” was suddenly published, the practice was widespread…especially in the West.

John Paul could have reaffirmed the old discipline, but instead he legalized the dissent by now permitting it…

Communion in the hand has a similar modern history.

 

[Ham1]

Long before girls and women were “allowed” to serve the Mass, various priests…and bishops…allowed the practice.

By 1994, when the famous “Circular Letter” was suddenly published, the practice was widespread…especially in the West.

John Paul could have reaffirmed the old discipline, but instead he legalized the dissent by now permitting it…

Communion in the hand has a similar modern history.

The Pope is charged with authentically interpreting canon law not you.

What do the quotations around “allowed” mean? And what is the “circular letter”?

 

[AlexV]

The Church’s CLEARLY STATED rubrics on women serving at Mass were disregarded by numerous clerics for many years…including bishops.

The pope’s circular letter of summer, 1994 merely legitimized what was an act of disobedient dissent that had gone on for years.

 

[jmcrae]

The Church’s CLEARLY STATED rubrics on women serving at Mass were disregarded by numerous clerics for many years…including bishops.

The pope’s circular letter of summer, 1994 merely legitimized what was an act of disobedient dissent that had gone on for years.

Maybe he realized that they were right - that since Canon Law currently defines the role of Altar Server as a lay role, and the Church herself defines women and girls as lay people, that girls (lay people) can, in fact, serve at the Altar (lay role).

In any case, I consider it extremely unlikely that the Pope was pressured into anything by the American Bishops, or anyone else. It makes it sound like all we have to do is yell loud enough, and Church law will change according to our whims. Not very likely, I don’t think.

 

[TimOliv]

Maybe he realized that they were right - that since Canon Law currently defines the role of Altar Server as a lay role, and the Church herself defines women and girls as lay people, that girls (lay people) can, in fact, serve at the Altar (lay role).

In any case, I consider it extremely unlikely that the Pope was pressured into anything by the American Bishops, or anyone else. It makes it sound like all we have to do is yell loud enough, and Church law will change according to our whims. Not very likely, I don’t think.

The 1962 Missal doesn’t designate altar boys as being anything but a lay position.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Maybe he realized that they were right - that since Canon Law currently defines the role of Altar Server as a lay role, and the Church herself defines women and girls as lay people, that girls (lay people) can, in fact, serve at the Altar (lay role).

I mentioned this a couple times before, being an “altar boy” was merely a “lay role” back in the “old days”. There were four “minor orders” (namely the porter, lector, exorcist, acolyte) which were roles which could be fulfilled by lay people in the parish church in which you don’t have the number of clerics necessary to perform such roles. Furthermore, being an “altar boy” isn’t the same as being an acolyte. Same with the lector-most people are just “readers”-even if the bulletin mistakenly refers to altar servers as “acolytes” and readers as “lectors”. Still, only males can be an acolyte or a lector-those we still have with us.

In any case, I consider it extremely unlikely that the Pope was pressured into anything by the American Bishops, or anyone else. It makes it sound like all we have to do is yell loud enough, and Church law will change according to our whims. Not very likely, I don’t think.

From the outside, no. This is what happened, certain American (it was mostly American) prelates and their representatives basically said, “We’ve been allowing girls to serve at the altar for ‘pastoral reasons’ and we are going to continue to do so and if you make a big stink over this, you’ll ‘alienate’ the American Church away from Rome…” The Cardinal that was in charge of seeing to this issue wanted to reaffirm the earlier ruling from the 80’s that stated that there are not to be females serving at the altar among other things. Well, unfortunately the Pope allowed this practice but worded it so that it was to be understood that altar boys really should be boys and that the Holy See does think that serving at the altar fosters vocations such that it would be most unfortunate for the practice to die out or the intent be muddled by making it a “women’s role”.

What happened? Aside from the Diocese of Lincoln, everyone allows altar girls. Lincoln has outstanding vocations for the priesthood, many diocese don’t. The altar serving isn’t the only issue, but it is an important one. The more modernistic nonsense about women’s liturgical “rights” the more killed vocations.

I don’t think the pope was in “error”, it was just that was it worth making a huge stink over? I think it might have been, but that is hindsight 20/20. It could be changed with the stroke of a pen as it is a merely disciplinary ruling, and one with NO traditional precedence.

It is funny though. People take this allowance as if God wrote it in the sky with 1000 ft. tall golden letters yet totally ignore something like Pope John XXIII’s encyclical that states that we should continue to use Latin in the Mass and continue teaching Latin.

 

[Stu]

I’ve never understood the “my boys aren’t interested” or “boys won’t do it arguments”. We are parents and we can make it (and should make it) an obligation of a good Catholic boy. And while I do not have a say in what my Bishop or Priest allows with respect to girl altar servers I can (and do) control my own family and that means Altar Boys only. (Or you can just go to an indult Mass.)