Female Altar Servers

[Yes]

There is nothing “traditional” about females wearing clerical garb. It’s not right to allow women to wear clerical garb that has long been on loan to boys who serve at the altar. If anything, it looks extremely *Protestant *to me.

I was vested last Sunday just like those girls and a group of people asked me why I wore that outfit in place of the alb – they were happy to see it. I admitted that (in this case) my alb was soiled so I decided to vest more formally. They asked why the cassock/surplice was rarely used anymore.

I explained that it’s really not kosher to allow females to vest in clerical garb. I used Masses at the National Shrine in DC as a prime example. Male servers wear the cassock/surplice, female servers wear an alb. About 3/4 of the people understood, the remaining begame angry.

(It’s interesting to note that in many parts of the world, altar servers wear the Roman collar when the serve Mass. Does that mean that if they had female altar servers who were vested in the a cassock and surplice that they too would wear a Roman collar?)

 

[Yes]

Actually, in my parish in Indonesia, there are more girl altar servers and often time it’s all girl altar servers during mass. a reason is because it’s easier to get girls to serve than the boys.

You know, easier to get girls to go to Church than the boys. So most parents will encourage the girls to be altar servers while the boys will stay at home. The parents will be happy because no distraction during mass (no boys grumbling) and the children will also be happy.

The most effective way to de-motivate boys from serving Mass is to allow altar girls.

 

[Yes]

maybe because Jesus found men and women to be on equal plains. Just a thought.

Equal but different…

 

[anamchara]

Why are those girls wearing Male Clothing?

They are wearing clerical GARB!!! Cassocks and surplices.

Is that photo a Joke? Or is there a parish out there that encourages cross-dressing?

One of them is my daughter and it’s not a joke and they are not “clerical garb” they were purchased out of a reliable catalog and are meant for altar severs. Take it up with the man who owns the company because he told me thats what they are for and my priest asked me to buy them. He wanted them to look nice and traditional…yes girls can wear them and look traditional I know that’s hard for many to understand.

 

[Kelly]

As I stated previously I am still “on the fence” when it comes to Girl Altar Servers, but when it comes to clerical garb why should anyone male or female be allowed to wear “clerical garb” when they are not clerics? If you are upset with girls wearing this garb, you should be upset with boys wearing it as well, the boys are not ordained to the clerical state, and if your reasoning is solid they should not be masquerading as clerics either.

 

[Brendan]

Anamchara,

The cassock is male garb in exactly the same way that a nun’s habit is female garb.

It is no more appropriate to dress a girl in a cassock as it would be to dress a boy in a nun’s habit.

Yes, I can go to a catalog and purchase a habit. But it would be insane for me to dress a boy in that.

Just because it’s in a catalog doesn’t mean that it’s appropriate for both sexes.

( and I’ll take a wild guess here and bet that the picture in the catalog had a boy wearing the outfit)

 

[mommyof4]

As someone who has already been severely ‘blasted’ on other threads about female servers, it is great to read so many encouraging words from this one.
I am a 53 year old (young at heart) convert to this great faith, and for the past three years have been a senior server at our parish of Our Lady Star of the Sea, St.Annes Lancashire UK. I am part of a team of 35 servers (male and female) ranging in ages from 8years to 83 years.
Being a server has increased my understanding of the liturgy, and my love of the Mass has increased ten-fold. Those who are dead set against female servers, will never understand our reasons for being there, or our joy in serving the Lord. They very often try to bombard us with rules and quotations designed to ‘put us in our place’, and it can be very hurtful at times. Everyone seems to think we all want to become priests. Nothing could be further from the truth. There may well be a few ‘feminists’ in the ranks, but i’m certainly not one of them. Besides, that would be a whole different ball game, and not for this thread.
I have never been deterred though, and in July this year, with the backing and support of clergy and parishioners, i will be honoured to take on the role and responsibilities of Parish MC.
I have no idea if i am the first woman to take on such a position, but i hope it helps to raise the profile of female servers everywhere.

Gods Love and Blessings to you all:thumbsup:

Bless you, and your ministry!

 

[Uncle_David]

Priests are heroes! They are self-sacrificing putting their congregation above themselves. They put serving God above all things. That is why young men are asked to assist our Priests during Mass, so they could get close to the ministry. Sadly, the scandals that have recently shaken the church have made parents wary. Many would not allow their young men to become alter servers because of this. This created a shortage so the church allowed girls to “fill-in” where needed.
The same can be said for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. That is exactly what they are “extraordinary”. They became needed because of the shortage of Priests and Deacons within our churches.
Unfortunately, both have these have become the norm. They have become so ordinary we can not see them as “extraordinary”.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

**LAST CALL FOR THIS THREAD:
**
It is not only expected, but required that posting at CAF carrries with it a responsibility to post charitably, courteously and in the interests of dialogue/discussion–this includes but is not limited to sensitivity in regard to the personal details of other posters families and experiences.

No better expression of that Christian ideal than Paul in Corinthians:

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing.

Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
This thread will remain open based on a high increase in the level of charity and civility to one another.

He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 11:15

 

[THurifer2]

First to say sorry here. I have done so as well “behind the scenes”.

I feel really bad for making comments about anamchara’s daughters server garb. A lesson learned. I have a hunch those young ladys are going to be model Catholics.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

Can I just make one last note to say who appears to be the priest in the photo with the girls dressed to serve is smiling. He doesn’t seem to have a problem with the girls or how they are dressed. I really believe witness to and good influence from local parish priest is one of the best inspirations to a young man to becoming a priest, a young man who has the calling in the first place. I think the young women serving are aware since there are no female priests that is simply not an option, especially when we as adults show our obedience to our faith in all areas. True there will always be people looking to push for what they want and there are woman who are pushing to become priests, but they are not showing obedience and we can only pray for them.

 

[Brendan]

I really believe witness to and good influence from local parish priest is one of the best inspirations to a young man to becoming a priest, a young man who has the calling in the first place…

And once again, I’ll repeat my challenge.

Does anyone have an example of such a priest at a parish that has altar girls and 4 or more men in the seminary.

I can think of 3 priests in Detroit that have that, but they also have strictly altar boys only.

None of the other 280 priests in the Archdiocese have been able to match what these 3 have done in their ‘all male server’ parishes.

Any thoughts as to Why?

 

[Glennon_P]

And once again, I’ll repeat my challenge.

Does anyone have an example of such a priest at a parish that has altar girls and 4 or more men in the seminary.

I can think of 3 priests in Detroit that have that, but they also have strictly altar boys only.

None of the other 280 priests in the Archdiocese have been able to match what these 3 have done in their ‘all male server’ parishes.

Any thoughts as to Why?

Keeping in mind that I am writing from the only Diocese in the U.S. where the Bishop does not allow altar girls…

I think you may be overstating the relationship between female altar servers and vocations. It certainly may be part of the reason your parish, praise God, has an abundance of vocations.

But is it the only reason? Or even primary reason?

It sounds, from reading these posts, like your parish has a strong vocation emphasis. It also sounds like you have an abundance of large families, which traditionally are fertile grounds of priestly vocations to develop. And it also sounds like your parish is one that is non-territorial; that is, families choose to belong there rather than simply going there because it’s in the neighborhood.

If all of these suppositions are correct, then I respectfully suggest that they are all factors in nurturing vocations. But to pull one of them out and point to it as the key reason is overstating.

The Diocese of Lincoln does not have female altar servers. We are also blessed with a good number of seminarians. Is the primary reason we don’t have female altar servers? We had a good number of seminarians before females began serving at the altar.

Our vocations program here is the result of 40 years of devoted work, first by the late Bishop Glennon Flavin, and then by Bishop Bruskewitz, to promote vocations. Bishop Flavin came out from his first day in Lincoln and said that he had two priorities - vocations and Catholic schools. For his entire 25 years as our Ordinary, he pursued those goals with energy that bordered on the ferocious.

Bishop Bruskewitz has stressed a few other areas of Church life in his tenure, but there is no doubt he, too, is a tireless promoter of vocations. His opening of our college seminary seven or eight years ago has been a tremendous boost ot helping young men of high school and college age to consider the preisthood. The local Serra Clubs are wonderful apostles for vocations. And the Newman Center at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln has been a rich source of men discerning a call to attend the seminary (and women discerning a call to the convent as well).

We also are a Diocese without a permanent diaconate program, and the Bishop has said that one reason he has not started such a program is that he believes it would be detrimental to efforts to encourage young men to consider the seminary. Whether he feels the same way about female altar servers I do not know, but one could pretty easily draw that conclusion.

However, dioceses that have both female altar servers and permanent deacons also are blessed with a good number of seminarians. The neighboring Archdiocese of Omaha comes to mind. Archbishop Curtiss has been an extremely strong promoter of vocations and his efforts, and those collaborating with him, have borne much fruit.

Fidelity to the teachings of the Church, strong leadership from the Bishop and clergy, and a culture that encourages young men to consider the priesthood are the key things that will bless a parish and diocese with vocations.

 

[scylla]

The Diocese of Lincoln does not have female altar servers. We are also blessed with a good number of seminarians. Is the primary reason we don’t have female altar servers? We had a good number of seminarians before females began serving at the altar.

Can you explain this please it really doesn’t make sense to me, did you ever have altar girls? And you always have had a good number of vocations?

Vocations is not the primary reason for not having altar girls, the reason is the difference in gender. Male and Female are equal in their rights and availability to salvation.
Being an altar server is not a right but a position of service which if we care about humility and truth we should encourage only boys to serve and allow girls to serve if necessary.

Again I will say there are many good girls who have served and who serve today, doing a good job without realizing that the promotors of altar girls support an anti-christian agenda of female priests and disobedience.

(I know it might sound harsh but I would be very happy to start a new thread on why promoting female priests is anti-christian and profoundly evil) We can support evil in ignorance, I once supported a womans right to choose as I was mired in sin.
I am no Saint now, but I have come a long way.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Brendan]

Keeping in mind that I am writing from the only Diocese in the U.S. where the Bishop does not allow altar girls…

I think you may be overstating the relationship between female altar servers and vocations. It certainly may be part of the reason your parish, praise God, has an abundance of vocations.

But is it the only reason? Or even primary reason?.

I didn’t say that this was a primary reason. I didn’t even imply causality at all.

This is strictly investigative.

Causes that restrict vocations were presented ( lack of a supportive parental structure, lack of a supportive priest, the community does not suggest vocations to potential canidates)

All of which I agree would detract from vocations.

So what must be examined is why are parishes like mine so sucessful. Why are diocese like yours so sucessful?

Can the parish mindset that encourages vocations co-exist with a parish mindset that also accepts altar girls ( this is different that a causal relationship)

Proof of this would be the existance of parishes that have large numbers of vocations that also have altar girls.

Which is exactly what I am investigating.

Does anyone know of such a parish?

 

[Glennon_P]

Can you explain this please it really doesn’t make sense to me, did you ever have altar girls? And you always have had a good number of vocations?

We have never had female altar servers. And our Diocese has had a good number of seminarians since at least the late 1960s.

My point was this: If not having female altar servers was the key factor in the number of seminarians a Diocese has, then Lincoln should have seen a spike in the number of our seminarians in the past 5-7 years. This is not the case.

the promotors of altar girls support an anti-christian agenda of female priests and disobedience.

That’s painting with an awfully broad brush. I think there are many examples of posters on this board who are supportive of female altar servers who are not promoting female priests.

 

[Glennon_P]

Can the parish mindset that encourages vocations co-exist with a parish mindset that also accepts altar girls ( this is different that a causal relationship)

I suspect that they can. However, I don’t have any experience with parishes with female altar servers locally of course, and I’m not all that familiar with individual parishes in other dioceses.

 

[THurifer2]

You had better watch out. We are so Jealous of you Lincolners that we might just steal him from you. I will jump for Joy if our new bishop turns out to be half as good as Bp. B in Lincoln.

 

[patg]

Again I will say there are many good girls who have served and who serve today, doing a good job without realizing that the promotors of altar girls support an anti-christian agenda of female priests and disobedience.

Please confirm that this is a privately held opinion with no basis in reality.

I know it might sound harsh but I would be very happy to start a new thread on why promoting female priests is anti-christian and profoundly evil

Like we’ve never discussed female priests before… You could read for months on what has already been posted on this ( and no, many do not agree with you).

 

[Yes]

I think a great deal of responsibility was side-stepped by the Church and Pope John Paul II when female altar servers were allowed with absolutely no explanation for the change.

This change went against many, many years of existing practice and the faithful did/do deserve an explanation. Making such a change without an explanation smacks strongly of “politics” and a lack of resolve – neither of which the Church needs.

Things are further clouded by language in RS that underscores the desirability of male altar servers, as many clerics have come from the ranks of altar boys in the past. It also complicates things by leaving the final decision up to local bishops/priests – leaving room for corrosive debate and dissent. If you create all that additional noise, why allow female altar servers in the first place?

It’s not my place to seond guess the Church – I accept female altar servers because it says to, but I truly dislike the way the change was introduced.