Female Bishops: Church Of England Renews Pledge To Ordain Women

[GKC]

The diocese in my area (South Carolina) is making just that contention. It astounds me that so many Episcopalians are so ignorant/confused about the legal and historical composition of their church. The balance of power in TEC has always been in the dioceses and parishes.

I got sucked into the drama via blogs like Stand Firm. This was back in 2008. I find the dysfunction and the at times tacky behavior (from a tradition that used to be the very definition of class) on all sides quite fascinating.

I am familiar with +Lawrence, and his saga. I agree.

GKC

 

[GKC]

All of this history and dysfunction is very interesting. My question, however, is this: On what basis, either Scriptural or Traditional, does the Anglican Church believe it has the authority to ordain women? One poster has said it is in imitating Christ that they ordain women. Yet this goes completely against any example Christ gave us.

Thanks.

Insert popcorn eating smile here.

GKC

 

[Picky_Picky]

All of this history and dysfunction is very interesting. My question, however, is this: On what basis, either Scriptural or Traditional, does the Anglican Church believe it has the authority to ordain women? One poster has said it is in imitating Christ that they ordain women. Yet this goes completely against any example Christ gave us.

Thanks.

Some would hold the question turns on what reason the Church would have to exclude women from the ordained ministry. Paul tends to turn up in such conversations. As a starting point in helping you in this matter, perhaps you could listen to Tom Wright, who is, I believe, quite well thought of.

ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm

 

[GKC]

Some would hold the question turns on what reason the Church would have to exclude women from the ordained ministry. Paul tends to turn up in such conversations. As a starting point in helping you in this matter, perhaps you could listen to Tom Wright, who is, I believe, quite well thought of.

ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm

I am fairly well certain the Church has expressed itself on that point already, without leaning too heavily on Paul.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

OTOH,

dougwils.com/s16-theology/squeezing-harder-than-that.html

dougwils.com/s16-theology/fresh-butter-at-ephesus.html

GKC

 

[liturgyluver]

In other words for those priests (and their congregations) who for either theological reasons or sacramental reasons feel unable to accept authority from a woman Bishop a system would be in place to ensure their line of authority comes from a male Bishop. In the US, Australia, NZ and elsewhere where women Bishops already exist no such provision has been made.

 

[Peter_J]

In other words for those priests (and their congregations) who for either theological reasons or sacramental reasons feel unable to accept authority from a woman Bishop a system would be in place to ensure their line of authority comes from a male Bishop. In the US, Australia, NZ and elsewhere where women Bishops already exist no such provision has been made.

How does that back-up your claim that “The CofE remains alone among the Anglican Communion in being committed to providing provisions rather than a simpe unqualified support for them as has happened elsewhere.”? Anglicanism doesn’t just exist in the US, Australia, NZ, and England.

 

[ltwin]

How does that back-up your claim that “The CofE remains alone among the Anglican Communion in being committed to providing provisions rather than a simpe unqualified support for them as has happened elsewhere.”? Anglicanism doesn’t just exist in the US, Australia, NZ, and England.

What the poster is saying is that in every other Anglican province that has allowed women bishops, it has been uniformly imposed on everyone. There is no provision for parishes to be under “alternative episcopal oversight” if their diocesan is a woman.

In England, however, there will be some form of alternative episcopal oversight.

 

[GKC]

What the poster is saying is that in every other Anglican province that has allowed women bishops, it has been uniformly imposed on everyone. There is no provision for parishes to be under “alternative episcopal oversight” if their diocesan is a woman.

In England, however, there will be some form of alternative episcopal oversight.

I am dubious, as to how that will play out. But, as with the Flying Bishops, that is the proposal; a conscience protection provision.

GKC

 

[ltwin]

I am dubious, as to how that will play out. But, as with the Flying Bishops, that is the proposal; a conscience protection provision.

GKC

Yes, because I sense there are some radical women’s groups in the CofE who are highly offended at such proposals.

 

[GKC]

Yes, because I sense there are some radical women’s groups in the CofE who are highly offended at such proposals.

I have so concluded.

GKC

 

[Picky_Picky]

Yes, because I sense there are some radical women’s groups in the CofE who are highly offended at such proposals.

That’s right, although they don’t have to be especially radical. The problem is that if you have one bishop (of the male variety) who has all the authority of a bishop over his diocese, and another bishop (of the other sort) some of whose priests take their marching orders from elsewhere, and whose authority over her diocese is therefore constrained, have you not two classes of bishop, one pukka and the other second class?

Difficult. As he tries to get the fractious NCOs of the church back into step Archbishop Welby may soon be nostalgic for the simple pleasures of negotiating with Nigerian rebels with a gun at his throat.

 

[ltwin]

That’s right, although they don’t have to be especially radical. The problem is that if you have one bishop (of the male variety) who has all the authority of a bishop over his diocese, and another bishop (of the other sort) some of whose priests take their marching orders from elsewhere, and whose authority over her diocese is therefore constrained, have you not two classes of bishop, one pukka and the other second class?

Difficult. As he tries to get the fractious NCOs of the church back into step Archbishop Welby may soon be nostalgic for the simple pleasures of negotiating with Nigerian rebels with a gun at his throat.

Yes. The reality is that you can’t make everyone happy. The CofE is going to have to decide if they want a truly broad church where many theological views are respected and valued; or if they want a church where only moderates to liberals can remain. They have a right to choose either, and it would be easier from the vantage point of consistency to either go all out one way or another. But the CofE has painted itself as a tolerant church. Now it has to decide if it really wants to tolerate conservatives who can’t consent to female episcopal oversight.

 

[Picky_Picky]

I am fairly well certain the Church has expressed itself on that point already, without leaning too heavily on Paul.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

OTOH,

dougwils.com/s16-theology/squeezing-harder-than-that.html

dougwils.com/s16-theology/fresh-butter-at-ephesus.html

GKC

Oh indeed, and I am not in a position (or sufficiently knowledgeable, come to that) to argue for one view or the other. But SteveVH expressed an interest in understanding something of the scriptural thinking behind the CofE position, and it seemed to me that Bishop Wright, as a respectable Bible scholar, fitted the job description.

 

[GKC]

Oh indeed, and I am not in a position (or sufficiently knowledgeable, come to that) to argue for one view or the other. But SteveVH expressed an interest in understanding something of the scriptural thinking behind the CofE position, and it seemed to me that Bishop Wright, as a respectable Bible scholar, fitted the job description.

That he is.

GKC

 

[Indifferently]

I don’t know what they’re playing at. If we don’t get the provisions we need, there will be a major problem.

 

[GKC]

I don’t know what they’re playing at. If we don’t get the provisions we need, there will be a major problem.

You are closer to it all than I, and can see it more clearly. But what I fear is a purge, under the guise of a “reasonable” offer.

GKC

 

[Indifferently]

You are closer to it all than I, and can see it more clearly. But what I fear is a purge, under the guise of a “reasonable” offer.

GKC

Yes. Those of us on the conservative end are fairly certain that the provisions (flying bishops etc) will be eroded. Until now we’ve been able to think of ourselves like a CofE-in-exile with the main block being an imposter church we don’t have anything to do with. If the provisions of the new bill don’t allow us to carry on that way, I will probably have to start a one-man Continuum until something comes up.

 

[GKC]

Yes. Those of us on the conservative end are fairly certain that the provisions (flying bishops etc) will be eroded. Until now we’ve been able to think of ourselves like a CofE-in-exile with the main block being an imposter church we don’t have anything to do with. If the provisions of the new bill don’t allow us to carry on that way, I will probably have to start a one-man Continuum until something comes up.

I wish you luck. I have heard, through my bishop, of something vague stirrings of planning for a “worst case” scenario, over there, but I can recall no details.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

That’s right, although they don’t have to be especially radical. The problem is that if you have one bishop (of the male variety) who has all the authority of a bishop over his diocese, and another bishop (of the other sort) some of whose priests take their marching orders from elsewhere, and whose authority over her diocese is therefore constrained, have you not two classes of bishop, one pukka and the other second class?

Yes I see what you mean.

I think what it boils down to is that the provisions are conceived in a unidirectional fashion – as opposed to provisions for the possibility (at least theoretically) of *either *a conservative parish opting for a conservative bishop *or *a liberal parish opting for a liberal bishop (male or female).

 

[EvangelCatholic]

The overwhelming majority of Anglican provinces accept & practice womens’ ordination [something like 38 provinces and extraprovincal churches have been ordaining women for several decades]. Now we are seeing the extension of bishops and primates to women. Lutherans have taken the same path.

Look into the faces of the priests surrounding the archbishop of Finland. [for some reason Finland has 2 archbishops

Finland consecrates first woman bishop: The Church of England Newspaper, Sept 17, 2010 p 8.

First published in The Church of England Newspaper. The Church of Finland has consecrated its first female bishop. On Sept 12 the Rt. Rev. Irja Askola was consecrated Bishop of Helsinki for the Ev…

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