Female Bishops: Church Of England Renews Pledge To Ordain Women

[GKC]

The overwhelming majority of Anglican provinces accept & practice womens’ ordination [something like 38 provinces and extraprovincal churches have been ordaining women for several decades]. Now we are seeing the extension of bishops and primates to women. Lutherans have taken the same path.

Look into the faces of the priests surrounding the archbishop of Finland. [for some reason Finland has 2 archbishops

http://geoconger.wordpress.com/2010...church-of-england-newspaper-sept-17-2010-p-8/

Yes, it’s a sad story. But if it’s 38 provinces, it’s the entire Communion.

GKC

 

[Picky_Picky]

Yes I see what you mean.

I think what it boils down to is that the provisions are conceived in a unidirectional fashion – as opposed to provisions for the possibility (at least theoretically) of *either *a conservative parish opting for a conservative bishop *or *a liberal parish opting for a liberal bishop (male or female).

Yes, you’re right, they are conceived as being unidirectional.

Incidentally, if anyone is sufficiently short of more sensible ways of spending their time, the bishops’ report and proposal which was before this Synod is paper GS1886 if you fancy searching for it.

 

[SteveVH]

Some would hold the question turns on what reason the Church would have to exclude women from the ordained ministry. Paul tends to turn up in such conversations. As a starting point in helping you in this matter, perhaps you could listen to Tom Wright, who is, I believe, quite well thought of.

***"When the question of the ordination of women arose in the Anglican Communion, Pope Paul VI, out of fidelity to his office of safeguarding the Apostolic Tradition, and also with a view to removing a new obstacle placed in the way of Christian unity, reminded Anglicans of the position of the Catholic Church: “She holds that it is not admissible to ordain women to the priesthood, for very fundamental reasons. These reasons include: the example recorded in the Sacred Scriptures of Christ choosing his Apostles only from among men; the constant practice of the Church, which has imitated Christ in choosing only men; and her living teaching authority which has consistently held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God’s plan for his Church.”(1)

But since the question had also become the subject of debate among theologians and in certain Catholic circles, Paul VI directed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to set forth and expound the teaching of the Church on this matter. This was done through the Declaration Inter Insigniores, which the Supreme Pontiff approved and ordered to be published.(2)

1. The Declaration recalls and explains the fundamental reasons for this teaching, reasons expounded by Paul VI, and concludes that the Church “does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly ordination.”(3) To these fundamental reasons the document adds other theological reasons which illustrate the appropriateness of the divine provision, and it also shows clearly that Christ’s way of acting did not proceed from sociological or cultural motives peculiar to his time. As Paul VI later explained: “The real reason is that, in giving the Church her fundamental constitution, her theological anthropology-thereafter always followed by the Church’s Tradition- Christ established things in this way.”(4)

In the Apostolic Letter Mulieris Dignitatem, I myself wrote in this regard: “In calling only men as his Apostles, Christ acted in a completely free and sovereign manner. In doing so, he exercised the same freedom with which, in all his behavior, he emphasized the dignity and the vocation of women, without conforming to the prevailing customs and to the traditions sanctioned by the legislation of the time.”(5)***

Continued…

 

[SteveVH]

Continued…

***"In fact the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God’s eternal plan; Christ chose those whom he willed (cf. Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, “through the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. Lk 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood,(6) the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord’s way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church (cf. Rv 21:14). These men did not in fact receive only a function which could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (cf. Mt 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; Mk 3:13-16; 16:14-15). The Apostles did the same when they chose fellow workers(7) who would succeed them in their ministry.(8) Also included in this choice were those who, throughout the time of the Church, would carry on the Apostles’ mission of representing Christ the Lord and Redeemer.(9)

1. Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord of the universe.

The presence and the role of women in the life and mission of the Church, although not linked to the ministerial priesthood, remain absolutely necessary and irreplaceable. As the Declaration Inter Insigniores points out, “the Church desires that Christian women should become fully aware of the greatness of their mission: today their role is of capital importance both for the renewal and humanization of society and for the rediscovery by believers of the true face of the Church.”(10)

The New Testament and the whole history of the Church give ample evidence of the presence in the Church of women, true disciples, witnesses to Christ in the family and in society, as well as in total consecration to the service of God and of the Gospel. “By defending the dignity of women and their vocation, the Church has shown honor and gratitude for those women who-faithful to the Gospel-have shared in every age in the apostolic mission of the whole People of God. They are the holy martyrs, virgins and mothers of families, who bravely bore witness to their faith and passed on the Church’s faith and tradition by bringing up their children in the spirit of the Gospel.”(11)

Moreover, it is to the holiness of the faithful that the hierarchical structure of the Church is totally ordered. For this reason, the Declaration Inter Insigniores recalls: “the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love (cf. 1 Cor 12 and 13). The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints.”(12)

1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.

From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate."*** (Pope John Paul, II)

 

[EvangelCatholic]

80 million Anglican Communion & 70 million Lutherans represent a lot of Christians and the most willing to reconcile the Western Church.

 

[SteveVH]

80 million Anglican Communion & 70 million Lutherans represent a lot of Christians and the most willing to reconcile the Western Church.

Sounds like you guys should get together. As long as women in the priesthood is an issue, there will never be unity between the Catholic Church and either the Anglican or Lutheran communities.

 

[GKC]

Sounds like you guys should get together. As long as women in the priesthood is an issue, there will never be unity between the Catholic Church and either the Anglican or Lutheran communities.

Or within the Anglican communities, either.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Continued…

***"In fact the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God’s eternal plan; Christ chose those whom he willed (cf. Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, “through the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. Lk 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood,(6) the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord’s way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church (cf. Rv 21:14). These men did not in fact receive only a function which could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (cf. Mt 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; Mk 3:13-16; 16:14-15). The Apostles did the same when they chose fellow workers(7) who would succeed them in their ministry.(8) Also included in this choice were those who, throughout the time of the Church, would carry on the Apostles’ mission of representing Christ the Lord and Redeemer.(9)

1. Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord of the universe.

The presence and the role of women in the life and mission of the Church, although not linked to the ministerial priesthood, remain absolutely necessary and irreplaceable. As the Declaration Inter Insigniores points out, “the Church desires that Christian women should become fully aware of the greatness of their mission: today their role is of capital importance both for the renewal and humanization of society and for the rediscovery by believers of the true face of the Church.”(10)

The New Testament and the whole history of the Church give ample evidence of the presence in the Church of women, true disciples, witnesses to Christ in the family and in society, as well as in total consecration to the service of God and of the Gospel. “By defending the dignity of women and their vocation, the Church has shown honor and gratitude for those women who-faithful to the Gospel-have shared in every age in the apostolic mission of the whole People of God. They are the holy martyrs, virgins and mothers of families, who bravely bore witness to their faith and passed on the Church’s faith and tradition by bringing up their children in the spirit of the Gospel.”(11)

Moreover, it is to the holiness of the faithful that the hierarchical structure of the Church is totally ordered. For this reason, the Declaration Inter Insigniores recalls: “the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love (cf. 1 Cor 12 and 13). The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints.”(12)

1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.

From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate."*** (Pope John Paul, II)

Sounds familiar.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

80 million Anglican Communion & 70 million Lutherans represent a lot of Christians and the most willing to reconcile the Western Church.

How do you measure “most willing”? Many people would say that Catholics are much more willing to unite with Orthodox than Orthodox are to unite with Catholics … but the Orthodox could respond that they are perfectly willing to unite if it were on their terms rather than ours.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Sounds like you guys should get together. As long as women in the priesthood is an issue, there will never be unity between the Catholic Church and either the Anglican or Lutheran communities.

You may be right on a dogmatic principles but the practicality of eucharistic hospitality is another issue particularly in Germany. Benedict met with Lutheran leaders where this was articulated twice and several meetings with Archbishop of Canterbury.

 

[Jordan_Rizk]

Sounds like you guys should get together. As long as women in the priesthood is an issue, there will never be unity between the Catholic Church and either the Anglican or Lutheran communities.

In March, the Russian Orthodox Church, warned the, Archbishop of Canterbury, that if they ordain women bishops they can forget about unity.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

In March, the Russian Orthodox Church, warned the, Archbishop of Canterbury, that if they ordain women bishops they can forget about unity.

He and we should have sent that message when they started ordaining women and Priests and Bishops in openly gay relationships.

 

[Myles_Falworth]

All of this history and dysfunction is very interesting. My question, however, is this: On what basis, either Scriptural or Traditional, does the Anglican Church believe it has the authority to ordain women? One poster has said it is in imitating Christ that they ordain women. Yet this goes completely against any example Christ gave us.

Thanks.

I am a former Episcopalean. My wife and I came into the Catholic Church on Easter of 2011. My family considers themselves “Anglo-Catholics” and thinks they believe what the Catholic faith was before the reformation. They further believe that the apostolic succession (with the exception of ordination of women) is unbroken in the Episcopal (US) church due to the first US bishop - Samuel Seabury- having been ordained by bishops from the Scottish Episcopal Church - which Anglo-Catholics believe were validly ordained bishops. This makes them believe that their sacraments are valid, which is deeply confusing to them. It is a definate obstacle to many crossing the Tiber.

When I was in college, I had a choice of attending the local historic Episcopal Church (St. Anne’s in historic Annapolis, MD) or of attending Catholic services. I set an appointment to meet with the female “priest” at St. Anne’s and spent about 2 hours discussing my reservations about the ordination of women, and her answers. What it boiled down to, was that she said that the Bible is very progressive in that it mentions the words of women - unlike other ancient writings. She also pointed out that Jesus clearly valued women, but may have not appointed them as disciples due to the social conventions of the time. I think she also said that women had acted as deacons in the ancient church. She was very cordial (English) and was not so much trying to persuade me as to listen to me and answer my questions. I think these reasons must be why the church thinks it can ordain women. I attended Catholic services throughout college and was in the Catholic Choir too!

I am reassured that the Catholic Church will NEVER ordain women to the priesthood as it is an impossibility. This will prevent much of the destruction which ordination of women has wreaked on the Episcopal Church which I loved so much growing up. Not all women seeking the priesthood are cordial or even charitable people. Some are militant feminists, and some do not even believe the faith. My wife and I saw one in Nashville once who NEVER based any of her homilies on anything scriptural, but only on poems or books she had read. It was a new agey kind of flavor.

Thank God we found our way home! When we were making the decision to go into RCIA, Pope Benedict had his state visit to the UK. It was a wonderful and blessed event for me personally - to see the Pope welcomed by the Queen of England. The reception he received was wonderful, and the canonization of one of the leaders of the Oxford Movement within Anglicanism (the movement to restore the Catholic faith to Anglicanism) John Henry Newman, was profound.

 

[Indifferently]

I am a former Episcopalean. My wife and I came into the Catholic Church on Easter of 2011. My family considers themselves “Anglo-Catholics” and thinks they believe what the Catholic faith was before the reformation. They further believe that the apostolic succession (with the exception of ordination of women) is unbroken in the Episcopal (US) church due to the first US bishop - Samuel Seabury- having been ordained by bishops from the Scottish Episcopal Church - which Anglo-Catholics believe were validly ordained bishops. This makes them believe that their sacraments are valid, which is deeply confusing to them. It is a definate obstacle to many crossing the Tiber.

When I was in college, I had a choice of attending the local historic Episcopal Church (St. Anne’s in historic Annapolis, MD) or of attending Catholic services. I set an appointment to meet with the female “priest” at St. Anne’s and spent about 2 hours discussing my reservations about the ordination of women, and her answers. What it boiled down to, was that she said that the Bible is very progressive in that it mentions the words of women - unlike other ancient writings. She also pointed out that Jesus clearly valued women, but may have not appointed them as disciples due to the social conventions of the time. I think she also said that women had acted as deacons in the ancient church. She was very cordial (English) and was not so much trying to persuade me as to listen to me and answer my questions. I think these reasons must be why the church thinks it can ordain women. I attended Catholic services throughout college and was in the Catholic Choir too!

I am reassured that the Catholic Church will NEVER ordain women to the priesthood as it is an impossibility. This will prevent much of the destruction which ordination of women has wreaked on the Episcopal Church which I loved so much growing up. Not all women seeking the priesthood are cordial or even charitable people. Some are militant feminists, and some do not even believe the faith. My wife and I saw one in Nashville once who NEVER based any of her homilies on anything scriptural, but only on poems or books she had read. It was a new agey kind of flavor.

Thank God we found our way home! When we were making the decision to go into RCIA, Pope Benedict had his state visit to the UK. It was a wonderful and blessed event for me personally - to see the Pope welcomed by the Queen of England. The reception he received was wonderful, and the canonization of one of the leaders of the Oxford Movement within Anglicanism (the movement to restore the Catholic faith to Anglicanism) John Henry Newman, was profound.

There hasn’t been a “Queen of England” in 400 years.

 

[LilyM]

There hasn’t been a “Queen of England” in 400 years.

Although there were lots of rumours about King James I

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Although there were lots of rumours about King James I

 

[SteveVH]

There hasn’t been a “Queen of England” in 400 years.

Then who in the heck is Queen Elizabeth, II?

 

[GKC]

Then who in the heck is Queen Elizabeth, II?

Queen of Great Britain, I think.

GKC

 

[SteveVH]

Queen of Great Britain, I think.

GKC

How is she not the “Queen of England”?

 

[GKC]

How is she not the “Queen of England”?

I leave that to the natives to explain. But she is the monarch of Great Britain, and I think that is the basis for the statement.

Could be wrong.

GKC