Female Cardinals in the RCC's future?

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Thank you for this comment and yes, your are blessed because you have wisdom. :o It’s not even that you wouldn’t “qualify” any more than I don’t “qualify” to get pregnant. It is simply an order of reality where a sacrament which demands the natural resemblance to Christ, the bridegroom can only be conferred on a male fitting that resemblance and the gift of motherhood can only be conferred on one who is female. No need to go to war with reality!
Amen.

Ed
 
Arias quoted an unnamed priest — a Jesuit, like Francis — who said: “Knowing this pope, he wouldn’t hesitate before appointing a woman cardinal. … And he would indeed enjoy being the first pope to allow women to participate in the selection of a new pontiff.”
So the reporter’s source is the Catholic rumor mill. Pretty darn funny" 😃 But not quality reporting.
 
When was the last lay Cardinal? (If ever)

I understand there have been deacons who were cardinals.

Shrine of Our Lady of the Crag
A quick search suggests that the last lay cardinal was Teodolfo Mertel, raised to the cardinalate in March 1858. He was, however, ordained deacon in May of that year. There have been Cardinals who never receieved holy orders, e.g. Ferdinand of Austria, d. 1641.

Wikipedia suggests that Paul VI wanted to name the French lay philosopher Jacques Maritain as a lay cardinal, but I can’t find a decent source.
 
Cardinals are not in the Bible and their make-up is not part of sacred tradition.
Not exactly. . .they were a development obviously led by the Holy Spirit, but again, just as with Ordinatio Sacerdotalis pointing forth, there is simply no way that as the role of the Cardinal has organically developed, in reference to and with the Biblical and sacred tradition of male only priesthood /bishops, that this or any Pope could ‘appoint’ women to serve as Cardinals.

Cardinals offer Mass. Can a woman offer Mass?

Cardinals administer sacraments. Can a woman administer the sacraments of Holy Orders, Matrimony, Extreme Unction, Confirmation?

If a woman were to be appointed as a "cardinal’ on the premise that cardinals supposedly need not be an ordained man, then the ROLE of the Cardinal would be severely curtailed. So what would be the point?
 
If a woman were to be appointed as a "cardinal’ on the premise that cardinals supposedly need not be an ordained man, then the ROLE of the Cardinal would be severely curtailed. So what would be the point?
The point would be to elect the pope. 😃

Anyway, Wikipedia says this, and maybe some more knowledgeable people can verify?
It is perhaps commonplace to think that the title of “cardinal” is the next order after “bishop” to which a man may be ordained, as “bishop” comes after “priest” and “priest” after “deacon”. In fact, however, the position of cardinal is not an order to which one can be ordained; rather, a cardinal is simply an elector of the pope and the title is an honorific office in the Church independent of the priesthood.
The original “cardinals” in the first Christian centuries were friends and counsellors of the Bishop of Rome. Some were ordained deacons or priests and some were not. In those days of persecution these men took on the duty of standing at the door of the house where the agapē feast, as the Mass was then called, was being celebrated. They admitted or rejected people hoping to attend the Sacred Liturgy. They also kept watch for soldiers or informers who might interrupt the gathering. Since the word for “hinge” in Latin is cardo they became known as 'hingemen" – cardinals. Soon many bishops called their advisors “cardinals” but, in time, the Pope decreed that only the advisors of the Bishop of Rome could be known by the title “cardinal”.
So, is ordination an essential quality of a cardinal?
 
Cardinals offer Mass. Can a woman offer Mass?

If a woman were to be appointed as a "cardinal’ on the premise that cardinals supposedly need not be an ordained man, then the ROLE of the Cardinal would be severely curtailed.
Yes, a woman Cardinal could never have a priestly function. But Cardinals could be eliminated (or expanded) tomorrow. Sacred tradition deals with the sacred, not the disciplinary mechanics. The most you can say about Cardinals is that they are a common practice, or a canonical tradition.
 
Well, the point is it is possible, just like it is theologically possible for any male Catholic to be pope. Both are equally ridiculous speculations.
I completely disagree with this. It is not at all possible. That women cannot be ordained is a doctrine of the Church, definitively spelled out by Pope John Paul, II. We should not even be hinting that it might someday be changed.
 
I like that comparison. I’ve been searching for one to make that point. Thanks. 🙂

The article itself is not that bad (or at least not as bad as others I have seen :p). For the most part, they get the facts right. It is theoretically possible. We shouldn’t be scandalized if such a thing were to happen.
We shouldn’t be scandalized that the Church would change a doctrine of the Church? 🤷
 
I completely disagree with this. It is not at all possible. That women cannot be ordained is a doctrine of the Church, definitively spelled out by Pope John Paul, II. We should not even be hinting that it might someday be changed.
You are not disagreeing with me! I never said it was. Read again and check the topic. This is about being a Cardinal, not about being ordained. One does not have to be ordained to be a Cardinal, theologically. The current rule that only a bishop can be a cardinal is just a discipline. It has already been set aside. A pope could allow any layperson to serve as Cardinal and this has happened in the past.
 
I completely disagree with this. It is not at all possible. That women cannot be ordained is a doctrine of the Church, definitively spelled out by Pope John Paul, II. We should not even be hinting that it might someday be changed.
Just to clarify, it is a doctrine of the Roman Church that women cannot be ordained. It is not, however, doctrine that lay men and women cannot become cardinals. That rule is simply canon law, and could be dispensed with by proper, competent authority, .e.g. the Pope or a canonically assembled synod. As such, it is theoretically possible that one day, although it seems highly unlikely and counterproductive for all involved, the Pope could raise laypeople, including women, to the cardinalate.
 
Just to clarify, it is a doctrine of the Roman Church that women cannot be ordained. It is not, however, doctrine that lay men and women cannot become cardinals. That rule is simply canon law, and could be dispensed with by proper, competent authority, .e.g. the Pope or a canonically assembled synod. As such, it is theoretically possible that one day, although it seems highly unlikely and counterproductive for all involved, the Pope could raise laypeople, including women, to the cardinalate.
Yes, I should have read more closely. Apologies. :o
 
You are not disagreeing with me! I never said it was. Read again and check the topic. This is about being a Cardinal, not about being ordained. One does not have to be ordained to be a Cardinal, theologically. The current rule that only a bishop can be a cardinal is just a discipline. It has already been set aside. A pope could allow any layperson to serve as Cardinal and this has happened in the past.
Yes, I misunderstood the argument.
 
These may be stupid questions from an outsider, but…

I thought Cardinals, by definition, had to be ordained since the definition of a Cardinal is someone who holds holy orders within the Holy See. The modern requirement that they either already be ordained as Bishops or that they be ordained as Bishops after being installed is a matter of discipline and not any dogma of the church.

That having been said, Cardinals can be ordained and installed as permanent Deacons. Indeed, a great many Cardinals, in fact, serve, if only in name, as Deacons in the Holy See. Again, total outsider here, but I see no reason why a “lay person” who is otherwise eligible for ordination to the permanent diaconate couldn’t be installed as a Cardinal Deacon.

On the subject of women, I know that it has be a very long time since the Catholic Church has ordained women Deaconesses, but I also know that you at one time did. Is the prescription against it a dogma of the church or is it simply a matter of canon law or even “small-t” tradition and discipline like Priestly Celibacy.

Beyond that, I also thought that the practice of the Cardinals electing the next Pope is itself a non-dogmatic tradition that can be changed. I thought it was entirely the prerogative of the Pope to determine how his successor is to be named, so long as he does not name a particular person. Isn’t there even a tradition for how to name a Pope if the conclave is unwilling or unable to name a new one?

As for the original question… I think that if it can happen, it will happen. Sooner rather than later. I think this particular incident is the “Curia being the Curia” and kicking at the pricks of a Pope that they see as a not at all welcome outsider, but the point still stands: If it can happen it will happen. It might take a decade or two.

Should it happen? Again… outsider… I don’t really think I have a right to have an opinion on this, but that sure ain’t gonna’ stop me from having one and making it known… I think that a least a few of us more traditionally minded folk on the other side of the Tiber really appreciate, deep down, the fact that you guys have done a good job holding the line on the ordination of women. Some of us would see a change like the one being discussed here as a significant undermining of that. Some of us wouldn’t. The important point being that, when it comes to stuff like this, and we speak from experience here: You can’t put “guard rails” on the truth.

I get that, for many people on both sides of the issue, ordaining women to the Diaconate or somehow allowing them in some other way to participate in the Conclave would be widely interpreted as a step towards the ordination of women to the Priesthood and even the Episcopate (and let’s not kid ourselves, that’s exactly what this is about.) Nevertheless, the fact remains that there is a world of difference between Deaconesses and Priestesses in that there was, at one time, valid Deaconesses but there have never been valid Priestesses in the church. If the other side wants Deaconesses that badly and allowing it wouldn’t compromise the essential truth, as you see it, of the Sacrament of Holy Orders, then let them have it. Call their bluff. Say, “Fine… here you go…” and then let them be the ones to say, “That’s not enough!”

There are hills worth dying on. Are you really sure this is one of them?
 
I am hopeful we will see a female cardinal one day. #girlpower 👍
 
On the subject of women, I know that it has be a very long time since the Catholic Church has ordained women Deaconesses, but I also know that you at one time did.
This isn’t true. The Church has never ordained women Deaconesses. They were certainly called “Deaconesses” but their only function was to prepare women for Baptism since it involved the changing of clothes. There was no ordination.
 
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