Female Chaplain?

[freddo]

LecLec, I sent you a private message.

 

[grandfather]

It seems like there are a number of negative expereinces that people have either had or heard about regarding female Chaplains. ".

The Vatican has issued a directive that the title chaplain may not be used in Catholic institutions for non-ordained people. That means there are no female chaplains. That does not mean women should not work with the sick and suffering. Women have done more to bring relief and comfort to the suffering than men, including to Jesus as He carried His cross and was crucified. The men ran away, other than John. It is good to get men involved, so give them something to do and call them chaplains. They can bring the sacraments.

Assistant is a vague term. It could mean a clerical person who runs an office, helps organize and prepare the person whom is assisted. It could also mean works in the same role.

If a Catholic hospital hires women and calls them chaplains it is operating outside the directives of Rome, in defiance of Church authority. It happens all the time. This is just another example.

The title assistant chaplain may be a way to get around the directive if the person’s duties are within certain ministerial functions.

 

[grandfather]

I apologise for being unclear…I was referring specifically to Catholics serving in the US military as chaplains being priests. For the Australian military, the (Catholic) bishop of the diocese will give ‘approval’ (not sure of the exact word) for (Catholic) women to serve as chaplains. So there are Catholic women serving as Catholic chaplains in the Australian military. I would guess that the actual title is outside of the control of the church or they would be called something different since that directive came from Rome.

The bishops who appoint these women are not outside the the governance of Rome and they are defying Rome.

 

[freddo]

The bishops who appoint these women are not outside the the governance of Rome and they are defying Rome.

I meant the military is outside of the governance of Rome.

 

[LecLec]

“That means there are no female chaplains”

Thats going to make introducing myself even more difficult than before!
Maybe the terminology isn’t perfect, these roles are relatively new. I hesitate to ask for suggestions as to what my Bishop should have given me for a job title instead…but then I suppose I have been called worse before and no doubt will be again!

As my old Mum would say “it doesn’t matter what you call me, as long as you call me in time for tea”!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

“That means there are no female chaplains”

Thats going to make introducing myself even more difficult than before!
Maybe the terminology isn’t perfect, these roles are relatively new. I hesitate to ask for suggestions as to what my Bishop should have given me for a job title instead…but then I suppose I have been called worse before and no doubt will be again!

As my old Mum would say “it doesn’t matter what you call me, as long as you call me in time for tea”!

Hospital Minister? Assistant Chaplain?

I hesitate to tell this story but maybe it will help you understand my aversion to female chaplains, that is the use of the word chaplain not the fact that they minister in this way (after all my spiritual director during the novitiate was a woman and the experience was a great one but that is a whole other story).

I know this sister who is a hospital chaplain and she is one also pushing for the ordination of priestesses. She would complain that as a hospital chaplain when ever a patient would want/need an Anointing of the Sick she would have to call a priest to do “the thumb job” (in reference to the way the priest applied the oil in the anointing). This sickened me. Here is a woman who is supposed to be a Catholic sister working as a minister to the sick in a hospital and who wants to be ordained denigrating the Sacraments in such a disgusting way.

I apologize if this and bled over into my feelings on the issue.

 

[Phemie]

“That means there are no female chaplains”

Thats going to make introducing myself even more difficult than before!
Maybe the terminology isn’t perfect, these roles are relatively new. I hesitate to ask for suggestions as to what my Bishop should have given me for a job title instead…but then I suppose I have been called worse before and no doubt will be again!

As my old Mum would say “it doesn’t matter what you call me, as long as you call me in time for tea”!

The Church is clear on this. From the Interdicasterial Instruction *Ecclesiae de mysterio *-- “On certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the Sacred ministry of the priest by eight dicasteries of the Holy See, August 15, 1997”

**PRACTICAL PROVISIONS ** Article 1
Need for an Appropriate Terminology
3. (…) It is unlawful for the non-ordained faithful to assume titles such as “pastor”, “chaplain”, “coordinator”, " moderator" or other such similar titles which can confuse their role and that of the Pastor, who is always a Bishop or Priest.

 

[LecLec]

Well, im currently known as Assistant Chaplain ByzCath, although I’m not sure if you are recommending this title or condeming it,apologies.
Im sorry to hear about your bad experiences, I know things like this can happen and I’d be just as horrified as you. I can only once again plead that we resist allowing these experiences to colour our general judgements about people.
I know people who have bad experiences with priests but happily don’t let this cloud their view of all members of the clergy (although sadly it can happen). I know that it’s difficult though, once bitten twice shy…

Once again, thank you to phemie for clarifictaion on the use of the word “chaplain”. Very interesting to see that moderator and co-ordinator fall in the same bracket…it’s a veritable minefield!

Alas, I’m afraid that I must stick to the title I’ve been given for now, I don’t fancy fowarding this thread to the Bishop as I’d still like to be doing this work (whatever I may be allowed to call it) in the new year!

 

[grandfather]

Alas, I’m afraid that I must stick to the title I’ve been given for now, I don’t fancy fowarding this thread to the Bishop as I’d still like to be doing this work (whatever I may be allowed to call it) in the new year!

Titles are interesting in general. They denote in general a function. They help us undetrstand the job description or duties of the holder. When we hear the title, doctor, professor, supervisor, general, colonel, sargeant, judge, senator, coach, govenor we immediately have some understanding of what a person’s job is. People have ambitions to certain offices and to gain the prestige of the associated honorific titles.

What is the greatest title any of us could have? When the ByzCatholic goes to receive Holy Communion the priest calls us by that title. Servant of God, Handmaid of God.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Assistant Chaplain is one that I am recommending. I think it works, it says what you do, you assist the Chaplain in ministering to those in need while the Chaplain goes further with the ability to administer the Sacraments as needed.

Well, im currently known as Assistant Chaplain ByzCath, although I’m not sure if you are recommending this title or condeming it,apologies.
Im sorry to hear about your bad experiences, I know things like this can happen and I’d be just as horrified as you. I can only once again plead that we resist allowing these experiences to colour our general judgements about people.
I know people who have bad experiences with priests but happily don’t let this cloud their view of all members of the clergy (although sadly it can happen). I know that it’s difficult though, once bitten twice shy…

Once again, thank you to phemie for clarifictaion on the use of the word “chaplain”. Very interesting to see that moderator and co-ordinator fall in the same bracket…it’s a veritable minefield!

Alas, I’m afraid that I must stick to the title I’ve been given for now, I don’t fancy fowarding this thread to the Bishop as I’d still like to be doing this work (whatever I may be allowed to call it) in the new year!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

What is the greatest title any of us could have? When the ByzCatholic goes to receive Holy Communion the priest calls us by that title. Servant of God, Handmaid of God.

Yes, it is usually Servant of God but a couple of priests who really know me say “Holy Monk” in place of Servant of God due to the fact that I am a vowed religious.

 

[LecLec]

Grandfather-Amen to that! (your last post).
Pax.

 

[HOLYHEARTS]

I think I have a true story that will serve as an example of why female or unordained
men for that matter, simply cannot fulfill all the requirements of what is meant by a “Catholic Chaplain”. I live in a small town in Brazil. We have 2 Priests & no Religious Sisters here. About a year ago, both Priests decided they were “not paid enough” to do
anything beyond offering Mass. Now the previous Pastor used to be alone & he did manage very well in hospital visitation…Well, they now have a Sister who drives over from another town to take care of the sick. But the sick want someone to hear their Confessions & give them the Anoiting of the Sick! Too bad, she cant do it! It does stand to
reason that anyone can visit the sick & any Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist
can bring Holy Communion. Sister need not even bother driving over from another town.
The hospital staff tell me it’s truly a farce!
So if someone is willing to just talk about the Faith, visit the sick, & sometimes bring
Communion, that is not being a Chaplain. Those things fall pretty much under the Corporal & Spiritual Works of Mercy. Payment for such services come only in Heaven!
But the sick & dying stand in dire need of Confession & the Anointing of the Sick, that is
the real point at issue!

 

[chicago]

Part of being a Catholic Chaplain is the ability to offer the Sacraments.

I am not saying that women are not called in the way you mention. I am saying that they are not called to ordination and as ordination is part of being a Catholic Chaplain they are not called to that either.

Those who operate in the job of chaplain are not called to the ministry of Catholic Chaplain as, I said before, there is more to being a Catholic Chaplain than you have stated and that is offering the Sacraments.

What happens a lot in healthcare, for example, today is that a primary intervention “chaplain” is available to offer spiritual services. Often, priests just are not available for such critical work. If there is a strong desire or need for a patient to be ministered directly by a priest (especially if there is a sacramental need), then that "chaplain " can and will call for one.

This really isn’t much different than how someone might go to a trained lay man or religious for spiritual direction, but must see the priest for confession (though, obviously, a priest who is offering spiritual direction can also offer a greater fullness in ministry.)

In fact, the experienced and well trained chaplain who is not a priest might, likewise, actually be better at what they do.

I don’t see any point in arguing about specific terminology here. No one is suggesting that the non priest “chaplain” is something which they are not. A simple recognition of the reality and value of what they are is all that is being asked.

 

[chicago]

The Vatican has issued a directive that the title chaplain may not be used in Catholic institutions for non-ordained people. That means there are no female chaplains.

And, from a nomenclature standpoint, I think that this is fair enough and discussion can sort of end here. Obviously, the concern is simply that there be no confusion as to ultimate roles when someone asks to speak to “the chaplain.” Perhaps it is also a call to appoint a priest to the position, whenever possible.

That doesn’t mean that, practically speaking, a non-clergyman can’t or won’t perform most all of the work that a priest could in the same situation, save the Sacraments.

So, call her a member of the “Ministry Team” or a “Spiritual Assistant” if you want. But it’s ultimately essentially the same thing. And I think that the common nomenclature which most people can readily call upon is “chaplain” whether that’s with a capital or small “c.” Thus, it probably ought not be an issue of great practical concern how one refers to the person.

Perhaps the better question that needs to be asked is, simply, “What is it that you want/need?” Someone may wish to talk to a priest, receive the Sacraments, just talk to someone who can offer spiritual comfort, or even want to contact their own minister from another denomination/religion entirely. But, again, the point is, perhaps, how to best refer to that person who is the first point of contact/intervention in helping to provide for whatever is desired.

 

[chicago]

Assistant Chaplain is one that I am recommending. I think it works, it says what you do, you assist the Chaplain in ministering to those in need while the Chaplain goes further with the ability to administer the Sacraments as needed.

So, just to play devil’s advocate, if a lay person or religious helping out at a parish were called “Assistant Pastor” would you object?

I suppose the real conundrum is this: What to do when you don’t have an available priest for the job of “chaplain?” Someone still has to serve the role of providing leadership and ministry. By what title ought they be referred if they are, indeed, the person in whom authority and responsibility rests? And what do you tell the person who is requesting the “chaplain” when there is no priest who holds such a formal job on staff?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

So, just to play devil’s advocate, if a lay person or religious helping out at a parish were called “Assistant Pastor” would you object?

I suppose the real conundrum is this: What to do when you don’t have an available priest for the job of “chaplain?” Someone still has to serve the role of providing leadership and ministry. By what title ought they be referred if they are, indeed, the person in whom authority and responsibility rests? And what do you tell the person who is requesting the “chaplain” when there is no priest who holds such a formal job on staff?

Actually the title is Pastoral Administrator and is in use and I have no problem with it as everyone knows what it is.

We have other such cases, such a Lawyers and Paralegals. A Paralegal can help a person work though the civil legal system very well and the person working with a Paralegal may never need the services of a Lawyer, but a Paralegal is not a Lawyer as there are things that a Lawyer can do that a Paralegal can not do. Just because a Paralegal can do a lot of what a Lawyer does and may be able to do those things better we do not call them Lawyers, because they are not.

As a Catholic I follow what the Church Teaches and says within its Laws (Canon Law). This states that a Chaplain is to be a priest.

No Catholic institution should ever call a non-priest a Chaplain. I, as a vowed religious brother, will not accept the title Chaplain, but I would accept Assistant Chaplain as that title says that 1) I am not a Chaplain and 2) I assist the Chaplain in his ministry.

 

[Flowr05213]

The Church is clear on this. From the Interdicasterial Instruction Ecclesiae de mysterio – “On certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the Sacred ministry of the priest by eight dicasteries of the Holy See, August 15, 1997”

PRACTICAL PROVISIONS Article 1
Need for an Appropriate Terminology
3. (…) It is unlawful for the non-ordained faithful to assume titles such as “pastor”, “chaplain”, “coordinator”, " moderator" or other such similar titles which can confuse their role and that of the Pastor, who is always a Bishop or Priest.

I am a new member and have found the postings on this topic to be very informative. I have several questions:

Based on what I’ve read, does this mean that when I see employment listings looking for a “Spiritual Care Coordinator”, this name is also inaccurate, since it uses “coordinator”?

I am a laywoman who feels called to minister to the sick and the dying, to provide a listening ear, to pray with them, etc. But I guess “chaplain” is not the correct term, based on Canon Law. So, can I make a living doing this type of work? Most of the jobs listed at Catholic institutions (that I’ve come across) for chaplains state in the description that it must be a priest (which is good, though, because that means they are in line with Rome).

How would you define “pastoral counselor”? Does Rome recognize this “vocation” or “ministry”?

Also, I visited the website for the National Association of Catholic Chaplains, which has a US Conference of Catholic Bishops logo on their website. It also states, “The National Association of Catholic Chaplains, through the action of its Certification Commission, is authorized to certify according to the certification standards and procedures approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Commission on Certification and Accreditation (USCCB/CCA). Certification attests to both professional competence and endorsement for ministry by the official Church.”

This is a quote from the NACC website regarding requirements for chaplains:

“The chaplaincy profession has common standards for certification to become a Board Certified Chaplain. To become an NACC certified chaplain there are several requirements, including: membership in NACC, being a Roman Catholic in good standing, successful completion of at least four units of Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) in an accredited CPE center, a Master’s degree in theology, divinity, religious studies, pastoral studies, or spirituality granted or acknowledged by an accredited academic institution, and meeting competencies found in the NACC standards for certification.”

I find nothing that says one has to be a Roman Catholic priest.

My question: is the NACC’s standards/criteria in conflict with Rome/Canon Law? What am I to make of NACC?

Looking for some direction and guidance, please! Thank you.

 

[grandfather]

I find nothing that says one has to be a Roman Catholic priest.

My question: is the NACC’s standards/criteria in conflict with Rome/Canon Law? What am I to make of NACC?

.

I do not see how anyone could draw any other conclusion.

 

[GwenL]

I think that the OP was asking about being a military chaplain in the U.S. armed forces. The Department of Defense requirements are quite specific. An ecclesiastical endorsement from the person’s faith community is required. You have to have two years of religious leadership experience. You have to be clergy in your religion. I cannot imagine a woman meeting any of those requirements to be a Catholic chaplain.

That’s the DoD policy, now here’s my view. As a former squadron commander in the USAF (one squadron of 325, another of 700+), I can tell you from personal experience that, for Catholics, you need a priest. Period. When I was a commander, I wasn’t even remotely considering being a Catholic, but I worked closely with Catholic chaplains on various personnel matters. You have to have someone for the commander or first sergeant to call on that can do all the things a clergyman does in that faith. For a Catholic, that means the sacraments. It’d be a total waste of manpower to have a Catholic chaplain that can’t do these things.

The military does have a career field for chaplain’s assistants, enlisted personnel who assist chaplains. These folks are totally different from assitant chaplains referred to in posts above. As most know, chaplains don’t bear arms. Chaplain assistants do, and are responsible for protecting their chaplains in combat.