Female deacons?

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CRM_Brother said:
In the modern Church, there are no female deacons. In the early Church, however, there were female ‘deacons’. Paul mentions one of these female deacons, Pheobe, in his letter to the Romans in Chapter 16 as the one to whom he had entrusted the letter to. ‘Deacon’ in the early church simply meant ‘helper’ or ‘minister’ and assisted the Bishop (and by extension, priests) in tasks within the diocese he, himself couldn’t perform. One of these tasks was the Baptism of women, as it was done in the nude in those times. From my research, this seems to simply be a title of ministry for the female deacons, not a signal of the ordination conferred by the Bishop as seen in the Acts of the Apostles. They were commissioned, but did not receive the ordination through the laying on of hands. Pope Francis recently established a commission to study the issue of women deacons so that he might have an accurate account of the historical situation to see if these women were actually ordained and, if so, what impact that fact would have on the current Church’s stance on male-only ordination of deacons. Personally, from my research, I don’t think that the Church’s stance would change, but I admit that I am not an expert on the topic and will leave the decisions to the scholars, theologians and the Magisterium.
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I think it’s very important (essential) for us, at least in the English language, to make the necessary distinction between a “deaconess” and a “female deacon.”

There were indeed deaconesses in the early Church.

Since they were not ordained, not counted among the clergy, and they were not female versions of deacons, they should not be referred to as “female deacons.” Their office was completely different from that of a deacon.
 
hope said:
The article states that this in now under study and might change but for the present this is the way it is.
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My comments are not directed “at” you, but rather, “in addition” to what you just posted.

In my state, the issue of drunk driving is being attentively studied by the government.

Interestingly enough, no one tries to claim that because the matter is being studied, that leads to the conclusion that the state considers drunk driving to be a legitimate option.

Yet, there are those who want to make that claim about blessings attempted during Communion time. It defies logic.
 
Brendan_64 said:
I think the issue is that people present themselves in the Communion line to an EMHC with their arms crossed expecting a blessing. What is the EMHC to do? Just blank them and wait for them to go away? Saying something like, “Peace be with you” would seem to be a polite way to deal with the situation.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if EMHC’s are coached on what to do if this happens.
 
I specifically used the term "female deacon’ because there is no gender differentiation between male deacons and female deacons in the Koine Greek which was used in the bible. Both use the word ‘diakonos’. The feminization of the term deacon to deaconess is a somewhat modern permutation and had no meaning in the early church. It does not seem to have been used before the sixteenth century. Yes, it is important to point out that what many protestant churches consider the office of deaconess to be was the role which female deacons in the early Church fulfilled, but it is unhistorical to call them that.
 
phil19034 said:
I’ve been to a parish in FL where all the EMHCs wear albs and matching crosses…
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I’ve seen them wearing sashes, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen them wearing albs. I think EMHCs wearing albs poses a danger of clericalising what is a lay-function that exists to help out the priest.
 
Reading the New Testament and church fathers and church history to today we can see that deaconesses only ministered to women in the early church. Widows and virgins (non married women) were set aside for prayer and teaching and assisting with women´s baptisms and bringing holy communion to the sick women. This developed into what our nuns and sisters do today.

We have nuns who lead a more contemplative life devoted to prayer. Sisters who take care of the sick in hospitals, teach kids and help people prepare for receiving the sacraments, visit the elderly, bringing holy communion to those who can´t come to church and a lot of parish work that the priest or deacon might not have time with and have delegated to others like laundry, arranging flowers and taking care of the church building.
 
FrDavid96 said:
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hope:
The article states that this in now under study and might change but for the present this is the way it is.
Click to expand...
My comments are not directed “at” you, but rather, “in addition” to what you just posted.

In my state, the issue of drunk driving is being attentively studied by the government.

Interestingly enough, no one tries to claim that because the matter is being studied, that leads to the conclusion that the state considers drunk driving to be a legitimate option.

Yet, there are those who want to make that claim about blessings attempted during Communion time. It defies logic.
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What I’ve never understood is why everyone seems to focus on “This matter is presently under the attentive study of the Congregation” and totally ignore “For the present, therefore, this Dicastery wishes to limit itself to the following observations:” which is followed by 5 laws presently in effect that forbids both EMHC blessings and blessings to most of those who cannot receive Communion.
 
Deaconesses blessed by Patriarch Theodoros of Alexandria in Congo:

www.ncronline.org

Orthodox move for women deacons is 'revitalization' not 'innovation'

Theologians from the U.S. and Greece voiced support for the decision of Patriarch Theodoros II and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria to restore the female diaconate.
www.ncronline.org www.ncronline.org

Reports indicate, however, that Theodoros did not ordain the women in the traditional manner, with the laying of hands at the altar, but “consecrated” them on the side.
So it is as @FrDavid96 said, the deaconesses are not exactly the same as female deacons even if they are to be reinstated.
Probably this will happen in cases of extreme shortage of men and priests like the situation is described to be in Congo, and the deaconesses will act mainly in missionary churches.
I think most people who just comes back to the Church are not pleased in seeing these changes (me included) but we have to understand what is going on should there be a change regarding existence of deaconesses such as they were in the early church.
 
Brendan_64 said:
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phil19034:
I’ve been to a parish in FL where all the EMHCs wear albs and matching crosses…
Click to expand...
I’ve seen them wearing sashes, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen them wearing albs. I think EMHCs wearing albs poses a danger of clericalising what is a lay-function that exists to help out the priest.
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I agree with you
 
Mary888 said:
Deaconesses blessed by Patriarch Theodoros of Alexandria in Congo:
Orthodox move for women deacons is 'revitalization' not 'innovation' | National Catholic Reporter
Reports indicate, however, that Theodoros did not ordain the women in the traditional manner, with the laying of hands at the altar, but “consecrated” them on the side.
So it is as @FrDavid96 said, the deaconesses are not exactly the same as female deacons even if they are to be reinstated.
Probably this will happen in cases of extreme shortage of men and priests like the situation is described to be in Congo, and the deaconesses will act mainly in missionary churches.
I think most people who just comes back to the Church are not pleased in seeing these changes (me included) but we have to understand what is going on should there be a change regarding existence of deaconesses such as they were in the early church.
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Yeah, I don’t like this at all.

Not because they are women, but because I fear it will be over run by members of the “women priests” movement.

I also fail to understand what the purpose of a Deaconess would be in today’s world? Unless we go back to naked baptism (which was a main purpose of the Deaconess), what will they do? Would they be given the ability to preach homilies (something they never were allowed to do)? From what I’ve read, the Deaconess did NOT have a role to play at mass. The only liturgical function they had involved helping with the Baptism of naked women.

So the question is what purpose would they serve and what would role would they fill that isn’t already being serviced by lay women?

Most importantly, I fear this will lead to the ordination of current “female dissenters” in many dioceses, and send the unintended message that female priests are on their way. I fear this is essentially just clericalizing women.
 
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Except that albs are a garment proper to all the baptized; it represents their Baptismal garment.
 
I’m not keen at all of changing the Church for the feminist cause just so we can have access to all the jobs men have access. I think it’s a superficial movement. It didn’t start from women who are strongly involved in the church like the nuns (who is a woman more involved than a nun?). As far as I know… I could be wrong. But I haven’t found yet a story on the internet in which a nun explains to us how more she can serve Christ by becoming a deaconess.
 
Mary888 said:
I’m not keen at all of changing the Church for the feminist cause just so we can have access to all the jobs men have access. I think it’s a superficial movement. It didn’t start from women who are strongly involved in the church like the nuns (who is a woman more involved than a nun?). As far as I know… I could be wrong. But I haven’t found yet a story on the internet in which a nun explains to us how more she can serve Christ by becoming a deaconess.
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I think the “pro women Priests” movement and the “pro female Cardinals” advocates see this as a stepping stone to get their desires.
 
Well, like it or not she is somehow entitled to talk about it. I don’t understand those big words “be part of something bigger”. As if the more existence of deaconesses will somehow be proof of Christianity’s success in evangelizing the world. Or I could just be nitpicking because I don’t agree with her cause. Anyway, thank you for the link.
 
Brendan_64 said:
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Mattapoisett64:
Except that albs are a garment proper to all the baptized; it represents their Baptismal garment.
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Why should this apply only to EMHCs then? Should all of the congregation who have been baptised wear albs at Mass?
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No, neither of them should wear albs at mass.

However, if one were to make the argument that the Alb should be worn: their argument is that anyone who enters the Sanctuary should wear an alb.

So that would mean that Lectors and Cantors should be wearing them too.
 
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Not here in the Philippines. The Conference of Bishops here forbids females to be EMHC’s or altar servers.
They are announcers, readers and ushers.
 
That happened at our Church downtown. The EMoHC was female and had permission to distribute Holy Communion while the priest of that parish recovered from a heart attack. It stunned me seeing a female doing that, I’ll admit.
 
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