Female Homily

[PhilipCal]

She did not do this on a Sunday, this was done during daily mass, when the priest was not there.

What am I missing? “Priest was not there”. The Canon makes no distinction between Sunday or Daily Mass on the subject of who can give the Homily. A Communion Service is not a Mass. A reading/teaching by a nun would probably be appropriate in this setting.

 

[Phemie]

What am I missing? “Priest was not there”. The Canon makes no distinction between Sunday or Daily Mass on the subject of who can give the Homily. A Communion Service is not a Mass. A reading/teaching by a nun would probably be appropriate in this setting.

When we’ve had a planned Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion the pastor has written a homily to be read by either the leader of prayer or the person who read the gospel. In this case it’s a homily since it’s the priest’s words that are being relayed to the community.

If it’s been an impromptu Sunday Celebration (we’ve had a few of those) we’ve had a period of silent reflection. We could have had someone DO a spoken ‘reflection’ but nobody felt up to that.

 

[MrS]

When we’ve had a planned Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion the pastor has written a homily to be read by either the leader of prayer or the person who read the gospel. In this case it’s a homily since it’s the priest’s words that are being relayed to the community.

If it’s been an impromptu Sunday Celebration (we’ve had a few of those) we’ve had a period of silent reflection. We could have had someone DO a spoken ‘reflection’ but nobody felt up to that.

At first thought, I wanted to scream… “Run from there… and hurry”

Where are all these terms coming from? What the heck is going on at your parish…or faith community, … or whatever new name has been assigned.

The Mass is the Mass.

What or how do you describe a
planned Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion

What or how do you describre a
impromptu Sunday Celebration

And further, a homily can only be delivered by an ordained clergy, and must be a reflection or teaching on one or more of that day’s readings.
A sermon, also, can only be delivered by an ordained clergy, and is a relfection or teaching on another topic of moral or sacramental, or theological importance.

An exception (EXCEPTION) may be a recorded message from the Bishop announcing an annual appeal or something similar that effects the whole diocese. Delivering a message in that way is done in lieu of bilocation of the Bishop.

I hope you follow this thread… you have apparently been greatly mislead in this and perhaps other areas.

 

[dessert]

What am I missing? “Priest was not there”. The Canon makes no distinction between Sunday or Daily Mass on the subject of who can give the Homily. A Communion Service is not a Mass. A reading/teaching by a nun would probably be appropriate in this setting.

The priest was not there, as it was a communion service so I get it, it was a communion service, with actually a reading / teaching after second gospel reading.

If there is a consecration during the communion service then is it a mass? By the priest I mean for sure.

What are you saying makes the mass a “mass”.? The homily?
I am pretty confused about this.

 

[benedictgal]

The priest was not there, as it was a communion service so I get it, it was a communion service, with actually a reading / teaching after second gospel reading.

If there is a consecration during the communion service then is it a mass? By the priest I mean for sure.

What are you saying makes the mass a “mass”.? The homily?
I am pretty confused about this.

First of all, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is comprised of two parts: the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. In the Liturgy of the Word (after the introductory rites, the penitential rite and the Gloria–sung when it’s a non-Advent or Lenten Sunday or major Solemnity), the readings are proclaimed and the psalm and Gospel Acclamation are sung (singing the psalm is optional; if it’s not sung, it’s read). A homily is then preached by a deacon, priest or bishop. The Liturgy of the Word concludes with the recitation of the Nicene Creed (again, Sundays and Solemnities) and the General Intercessions.

At the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the gifts are brought up (bread, wine, and collection – again, on Sundays and Solemnities). Then, after the offertory prayers, the Sanctus is sung/recited. Then, the Eucharistic prayers is recited by the celebrant. It is in the Eucharistic Prayer that the Consecration, Institution Narrative, is prayed by the celebrant (priest, bishop). At this moment, Jesus becomes physically present under the accidents (forms) of bread and wine. After the doxology and the Great Amen, the faithful pray the Our Father, then exchange the sign of peace.

Then, the faithful pray/sing the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) as the celebrant breaks the Sacred Host. Then, after the prayer of “Lord I am not worthy…”, the celebrant communicates and then Holy Communion is distributed to the faithful.

After the post-Communion prayer, the celebrant imparts the final blessing and then the dismissal.

A Communion Service only has the Liturgy of the Word. After the General Intercession, the faithful pray the Our Father. Then, the person leading the service approaches the Tabernacle and places the ciborrium on the altar, atop the corporal. The faithful pray “Lord, I am not worthy…”. Then, the faithful receive Holy Communion. There is a post-Communion prayer, but no “blessing”, unless the person leading the service is a deacon (who can also preach the homily at these liturgies). Then, the faithful are dismissed.

Bear in mind that even in Communion Services, only the deacon, because he is ordained, may say “The Lord be with you”. Laity leading such a service cannot say prayers that are reserved to the clergy alone.

 

[Phemie]

At first thought, I wanted to scream… “Run from there… and hurry”

Where are all these terms coming from? What the heck is going on at your parish…or faith community, … or whatever new name has been assigned.

The Mass is the Mass.

What or how do you describe a
planned Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion

In Canada, “Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion” is the official term for what is referred to as a ‘Communion Service’ on this board. We have a ritual book called “Sunday Celebration of the Word and Hours”. The format is laid out for us. The format for a simple Sunday Celebration of the Word differs from the format for a Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion. There is many a community that has nothing but Sunday Celebrations of the Word with Communion for months on end because there is no priest available except for 2 or 3 times a year.

A ‘planned’ Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion refers to when we & the priest know that he will not be available to celebrate Mass and we prepare in advance and he leaves us a homily to read.

What or how do you describre a
impromptu Sunday Celebration

Same as above only we don’t know that it is going to happen until about 24 hours before. We’ve had a few when the pastor had to fly to another community for a funeral and got snowed in. In that case we’ve had to celebrate a Liturgy of the Word rather than have people hit their noses against a locked church door.

And further, a homily can only be delivered by an ordained clergy, and must be a reflection or teaching on one or more of that day’s readings.
A sermon, also, can only be delivered by an ordained clergy, and is a relfection or teaching on another topic of moral or sacramental, or theological importance.

An exception (EXCEPTION) may be a recorded message from the Bishop announcing an annual appeal or something similar that effects the whole diocese. Delivering a message in that way is done in lieu of bilocation of the Bishop.

I hope you follow this thread… you have apparently been greatly mislead in this and perhaps other areas.

 

[bobzills]

Today, after the gospel reading, the priest asked the church to be seated and a female parishioner walked up to the ambo.

In our area, women give homilies all the time. For example, a while back we were treated to a sermon about how the Catholic Church for 2000 years has been guilty of oppressing women. And we have been hearing about why women should be allowed to be priests.

 

[benedictgal]

In our area, women give homilies all the time. For example, a while back we were treated to a sermon about how the Catholic Church for 2000 years has been guilty of oppressing women. And we have been hearing about why women should be allowed to be priests.

I don’t know where your area is, but, as I stated in one of my earlier posts, this practice is prohibited and reprobated by Redemptionis Sacramentum if this is done within the confines of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Now, even if this woman is delivering some sort of reflection during a communion service, she is prohbited from saying anything that is contradictory to Church teaching. RS makes that point very clear.

[65.] It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the Eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon 767 §1.145 This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.

[66.] The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association.146

[67.] Particular care is to be taken so that the homily is firmly based upon the mysteries of salvation, expounding the mysteries of the Faith and the norms of Christian life from the biblical readings and liturgical texts throughout the course of the liturgical year and providing commentary on the texts of the Ordinary or the Proper of the Mass, or of some other rite of the Church.147 It is clear that all interpretations of Sacred Scripture are to be referred back to Christ Himself as the one upon whom the entire economy of salvation hinges, though this should be done in light of the specific context of the liturgical celebration. In the homily to be given, care is to be taken so that the light of Christ may shine upon life’s events. Even so, this is to be done so as not to obscure the true and unadulterated word of God: for instance, treating only of politics or profane subjects, or drawing upon notions derived from contemporary pseudo-religious currents as a source.148

In other words, this is already a double-whammy violation because, not only is the person not ordained clergy, but, she is also espousing viewpoints that run against the Church’s stance.

Your pastor and bishop need to be advised that this reprobrated practice is happening in your church. This is wrong.

 

[PhilipCal]

When we’ve had a planned Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion the pastor has written a homily to be read by either the leader of prayer or the person who read the gospel. In this case it’s a homily since it’s the priest’s words that are being relayed to the community.

If it’s been an impromptu Sunday Celebration (we’ve had a few of those) we’ve had a period of silent reflection. We could have had someone DO a spoken ‘reflection’ but nobody felt up to that.

Okay, so essentially, you’re having a Communion Service. The shortage of Priests has made these neccessary in quite a few areas. That certainly explains “The Priest was not there”. Thanks for clearing that up. In any situation not involving Mass, I don’t think there’s any problem with a female delivering a “homily”. I don’t consider myself an expert though, so you might want to do a little more checking.

 

[bobzills]

I don’t think there’s any problem with a female delivering a “homily”. .

That is true in our area also.

 

[PhilipCal]

That is true in our area also.

Rather a sad comment on our times. We all need to pray for an increase in vocations.

 

[benedictgal]

Okay, so essentially, you’re having a Communion Service. The shortage of Priests has made these neccessary in quite a few areas. That certainly explains “The Priest was not there”. Thanks for clearing that up. In any situation not involving Mass, I don’t think there’s any problem with a female delivering a “homily”. I don’t consider myself an expert though, so you might want to do a little more checking.

The problem is that you shouldn’t confuse the homily with a reflection. In a Communion Service, a reflection is not necessary, especially if this is done during the week. However, the reflection could be given on a Sunday in a communion service. Nonetheless, it should not take the tone of the homily and whoever is delivering the reflection needs to follow the given parameters and guidelines established by the Church. If the woman is espousing viewpoints that are contrary to Catholic teaching and doctrine, then she needs to be reminded that her comments could very well lead the faithful astray.

Instead of having the person come up with their own “thing”, why not read a meditative piece from one of the Church Fathers (which is found in the Liturgy of the Hours) or a piece written by Pope Benedict XVI. There, you would at least be assured that whatever is read is doctrinally and dogmatically correct.

 

[Stillkickin]

From the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal)

1. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.65 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

As you can see it says NEVER A LAY PERSON, this is clearly abuse and should be stopped immediately.

Stillkickin

 

[Kanda]

I have written a short series on the homily on my blog. There are three posts, and they cover who can give it, when it should be given, and what its purpose is. You might want to check it out; it is simply a collection of various excerpts from Church documents (such as Redemptionis Sacramentum – abbreviated as RS – and the General Instruction of the Roman Missal – abbreviated as GIRM) that answer the questions. There is virtually no opinion in the posts, simply Church law and teachings.

If there is no deacon, the Book of Gospels may be processed in at the beginning of Mass by a lector (and placed on the altar).

Purple is the correct color, blue is incorrect, but I’m sure you knew that already.

The Eucharistic Prayer is reserved solely to the priest. It is an abuse to permit the laity to recite part of it (cf. RS, n. 52).

Glass is not permitted (cf. RS, n. 117).

TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, as it is an abuse directly against the Precious Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. This practice “is completely to be avoided, lest anything should happen that would be to the detriment of so great a mystery” (RS, n. 106).

There is a “Book of Blessings”, and I’m sure it contains such things… however, these types of things (in my opinion) are best done privately, or, if the must happen at Mass, after the prayer after Communion (when announcements are to be given).

The presence of extra people in the Sanctuary is frowned upon; only those people who need to be in there should be there, and only then when they are needed. There is nothing that calls for the altar to be kissed by anyone other than the priest and deacon (cf. GIRM 49, 90). There is no reason for them to be kissing the altar.

Wrong.

Ugh. Very wrong. At the very least, kneeling is required during the Eucharistic Prayer, as well as during the line “By the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man” during the Creed on Christmas and Easter.

Regarding the content of her “homily”… she’s “looking for [hope] in all the wrong places”. Perhaps she should read the Holy Father’s latest encyclical, Spe Salvi, in which he writes about the only true and lasting hope humans can have. Instead, she talked about giving people false hopes: letting them do things that break the rules, which they then become accustomed to, and when that rule is finally enforced, they feel hurt because they can no longer do the thing they liked; letting them embrace their sins despite what the Church says, because people support their sinful lifestyles; making people think “old church documents” (like… the Bible, maybe?) are not useful anymore and can and should be supplanted by newer, modern, liberal documents; and finally, by giving them the wrong impression about the rules and regulations of the Church today (such as that only the ordained may give homilies).

Thank you for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut. I will probably be messaging you later for help/info.

 

[Kanda]

Hey everyone… just letting you know I haven’t bailed on my own thread. I’ve just been busy with the holiday and haven’t been online at all until just now.

So, I have decided that I will email the letter to my priest. I have spoken with some people who communicate often with him and all have said that the best way to contact him is email.

I am going to send it to him on Monday morning because I will be going out of town this weekend and I don’t want him to call (on the off chance that he does) while I am visiting my parents. My mom thinks that this priest and his ‘innovations’ are the best thing since sliced bread, so I don’t really want to have her around when (if) this goes down.

I don’t know what I am expecting, really. I want to attend some masses at other parishes in my diocese, just to see if it is only my church, or if it is a problem in the area. I have been to another in my city closer to my work where there were some problems as well (no kneeling, no crucifix on or near the altar, etc.) I just want to know what I will be up against if I have to go to my bishop.

Here I go… One Woman Army…:knight2:

 

[japhy]

Hey everyone… just letting you know I haven’t bailed on my own thread. I’ve just been busy with the holiday and haven’t been online at all until just now.

I don’t know what I am expecting, really. I want to attend some masses at other parishes in my diocese, just to see if it is only my church, or if it is a problem in the area. I have been to another in my city closer to my work where there were some problems as well (no kneeling, no crucifix on or near the altar, etc.) I just want to know what I will be up against if I have to go to my bishop.

It is a shame to dampen the Christmas spirit with such matters. I emailed my pastor the other day to ask him if he could include, in his upcoming letter to the Vincentian priests who help him out with Mass, a reminder that pouring the Precious Blood from one Chalice to another is an abuse and is not to be done. (And then I wished him a Merry Christmas.)

It’s also a shame that it seems with the new order of the Mass that people are bored unless there is constant innovation and experimentation. This is what makes the Extraordinary Form of the Mass so appealing to many!

 

[FCEGM]

Hey everyone… just letting you know I haven’t bailed on my own thread. I’ve just been busy with the holiday and haven’t been online at all until just now.

So, I have decided that I will email the letter to my priest. I have spoken with some people who communicate often with him and all have said that the best way to contact him is email.

I am going to send it to him on Monday morning because I will be going out of town this weekend and I don’t want him to call (on the off chance that he does) while I am visiting my parents. My mom thinks that this priest and his ‘innovations’ are the best thing since sliced bread, so I don’t really want to have her around when (if) this goes down.

I don’t know what I am expecting, really. I want to attend some masses at other parishes in my diocese, just to see if it is only my church, or if it is a problem in the area. I have been to another in my city closer to my work where there were some problems as well (no kneeling, no crucifix on or near the altar, etc.) I just want to know what I will be up against if I have to go to my bishop.

Here I go… One Woman Army…:knight2:

God’s speed, Kimberly!

Having lived many years in the San Jose Diocese, I understand what you are going through in your parish. It would be wonderful if your letter to the pastor would be met with understanding and appropriate change, but I don’t hold much hope for that occuring. If you do decide to try other parishes, St. Victor’s on Sierra Rd. in northeast SJ isn’t known for liturgical shenanigans, so it might be a parish to consider after Our Lady of Peace - if it isn’t too far for you.

 

[dessert]

At our Church one thing we do strive for is consistancies.
On mondays, fathers day off, we have communion service in the chapel. It is almost always, and only if not an emmergency, we have a couple, there are a few that are regular, that do the communion, the husband usually reads the intro prayer and the first reading and the wife reads the second reading and the psalm there isn’t any homily and they both serve the host and no cup. It is efficient and only 15 minutes. They both walk out together, before us, with the 2 bowls (?) with the hosts to place back in the tabernacle, in the sanctuary. Then we have rosary for those who want to stay.

We do this on the days father won’t be there also, but we also have rosary, after and we do this even though we have a deacon because we figure he should have the day off also because he is there most of the time since his wife passed on and he is the offficial deacon and visits the ill and dying, he is kept very busy.

This week and next no adoration or no mass or communion service this week so there are other churches having both so we could go there as we are an establishe cluster. Since we are all with in 10 miles of one another there is no reason why if we want to get to a mass we can, and the priests have intended to take turns.

It seem to be working out I would reccommend that others look into clustering.

 

[Phemie]

At our Church one thing we do strive for is consistancies.
On mondays, fathers day off, we have communion service in the chapel.

It’s not recommended to have communion services during the week if there is Mass on Sunday. It’s even less recommended if Mass is available nearby.

Why wouldn’t you celebrate Morning or Evening Prayer instead?

 

[dessert]

It’s not recommended to have communion services during the week if there is Mass on Sunday. It’s even less recommended if Mass is available nearby.

Why wouldn’t you celebrate Morning or Evening Prayer instead?

I don’t know this is just what they have always done, I have been there almost a year.

I have thought about traveling around to the other parishes as I have a little with my mom and told father that on a Holy day I will be visiting with my mom but since we are a cluster the priests have even said it is no worry they will trust us to get there and if we don’t just explain later so no big deal.

I have no idea what morning and evening prayer entails?