Female Homily

[benedictgal]

I don’t know this is just what they have always done, I have been there almost a year.

I have thought about traveling around to the other parishes as I have a little with my mom and told father that on a Holy day I will be visiting with my mom but since we are a cluster the priests have even said it is no worry they will trust us to get there and if we don’t just explain later so no big deal.

I have no idea what morning and evening prayer entails?

Just because something like this has ben “always” been done, doesn’t necessarily make it right. Who leads these services? Is it your deacon or is it a layperson?

I am a little troubled by the priest’s response to you “just explain later, so no big deal.” The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a big deal and we have obligatins to meet when it comes to Holy Days of Obligation. Now, if someone is ill or is homebound, it is understood that satisfying the obligation will present a hardship. However, in the other instances, one should get hold of Mass schedules in other parts of the cluster (or in a nearby town) and make the sacrifice to assist at Mass.

Morning and Evening Prayer are the Liturgy of the Hours. When I visited College Station, TX, on a business trip, I went to Mass over at the local parish. In the Blessed Sacrament Chapel they had books for the Liturgy of the Hours. From what I understand, the faithful pray the LOTH. Perhaps your cluster parish could make arrangements to purchase these books so that you can have this liturgy. Phemie is right. Communion services are not meant to be done frequently.

If the deacon is leading one, that is fine because he can preach, since he is clergy. However, lay-led services carry their own caveats, in that it’s not wise to have a layperson “preach”. As the OP noted, errors can easily come out and lead people astray.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t know this is just what they have always done, I have been there almost a year.

I have thought about traveling around to the other parishes as I have a little with my mom and told father that on a Holy day I will be visiting with my mom but since we are a cluster the priests have even said it is no worry they will trust us to get there and if we don’t just explain later so no big deal.

I have no idea what morning and evening prayer entails?

Morning and Evening Prayer (Liturgy of the Hours) are the universal prayers of the Church and consist of Hymns, Psalms, Readings, Canticles (of Zachariah, the Magnificat), Intercessions, the Lord’s Prayer and a blessing. These can be led by a lay person if no priest or deacon is available.

Anyone can pray the Liturgy of the Hours alone in their home or wherever they happen to be (it’s what priests do when they read their Breviary), but it is great to celebrate these two main prayers as a group. I’ve been at seminars where our official study time started and ended with these prayers and let me tell you that I felt I had really given my day over to God when it was bracketed by these 2 liturgies.

 

[dessert]

Just because something like this has ben “always” been done, doesn’t necessarily make it right. Who leads these services? Is it your deacon or is it a layperson?

I am a little troubled by the priest’s response to you “just explain later, so no big deal.” The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a big deal and we have obligatins to meet when it comes to Holy Days of Obligation. Now, if someone is ill or is homebound, it is understood that satisfying the obligation will present a hardship. However, in the other instances, one should get hold of Mass schedules in other parts of the cluster (or in a nearby town) and make the sacrifice to assist at Mass.

Morning and Evening Prayer are the Liturgy of the Hours. When I visited College Station, TX, on a business trip, I went to Mass over at the local parish. In the Blessed Sacrament Chapel they had books for the Liturgy of the Hours. From what I understand, the faithful pray the LOTH. Perhaps your cluster parish could make arrangements to purchase these books so that you can have this liturgy. Phemie is right. Communion services are not meant to be done frequently.

If the deacon is leading one, that is fine because he can preach, since he is clergy. However, lay-led services carry their own caveats, in that it’s not wise to have a layperson “preach”. As the OP noted, errors can easily come out and lead people astray.

Hmmmmm I didn’t know about the time of the LOH, which I have read about, but have not approached anyone in the Church about prayers but I will guess that they would want to do that along with the communion, then not very willing to give up the communion.
They mostly pray the rosary and chaplet.
One of the old ladies said we are not suppose to be praying the rosary BEFORE the communion service, do you know if this is in the rubics? She got lots of flack from everyone for not doing this.

I decided not to attend the monday as I did for awhile, and will go to other masses in the cluster which I think is what the cluster will end up being one day at one parish and another at another parish etc.

I attend this one because they do have a group rosary after the daily mass, (we are the only ones ) I would feel odd only coming to the rosary and rather than come to the mass. It will be some decisions in the future give up the daily communion or the rosary or both.
I fear the rosary will go very few of us participate

They have no idea what LOH is and what is sad that the nuns have not been coming to many of the daily masses as they say they are not required. That is more than likely true, they only need to attend so much but none of them live in convents anymore, go figure, it is so different I feel that it is up to the laywoman to set the example for what our priests can do do to help the Church and liturgy to survive. Our Knights of Columbus are starting to get active in leading the children.

 

[dessert]

Morning and Evening Prayer (Liturgy of the Hours) are the universal prayers of the Church and consist of Hymns, Psalms, Readings, Canticles (of Zachariah, the Magnificat), Intercessions, the Lord’s Prayer and a blessing. These can be led by a lay person if no priest or deacon is available.

Anyone can pray the Liturgy of the Hours alone in their home or wherever they happen to be (it’s what priests do when they read their Breviary), but it is great to celebrate these two main prayers as a group. I’ve been at seminars where our official study time started and ended with these prayers and let me tell you that I felt I had really given my day over to God when it was bracketed by these 2 liturgies.

This is good to know as I didn’t know the layperson can do this in a group. This is a good suggestion as I will see if someone wants to start this or I will. Now I just have to learn about it and get a book on it as I have been thinking of doing anyways and I do get the magnificat and there are some that also ge the mag and I give the old issues to others that can’t afford it.
I’m actually in a spirit club so maybe I can incorporate it in to one of our meetings. This is a good idea for my meetings as my leader is always looking for ways to encourage us spiritually Thanks!

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I posted this another thread, but felt that it pertained here as well:

First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians 14: 34-35
Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

 

[bobzills]

I posted this another thread, but felt that it pertained here as well:

First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians 14: 34-35
Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

It looks to me like the Catholic Church doesn’t follow this. Women are offically allowed to read the epistle in Church and also they are allowed to conduct the communion service. There is also a passage which requires that women wear headcovering, but it looks to me like the Catholic Church does not follow this either, and women conduct the Communion services without any headcovering.

 

[Tedster]

It looks to me like the Catholic Church doesn’t follow this. Women are offically allowed to read the epistle in Church and also they are allowed to conduct the communion service. There is also a passage which requires that women wear headcovering, but it looks to me like the Catholic Church does not follow this either, and women conduct the Communion services without any headcovering.

Matthew 19:8 says:

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Maybe the bending of the law still applies today.

 

[benedictgal]

Matthew 19:8 says:Maybe the bending of the law still applies today.

However, the practice of the laity preaching a homily is still reprobated under Redemptionis Sacramentum (this prohibition also includes women). I don’t think that is likely to change anytime soon.

 

[Tedster]

However, the practice of the laity preaching a homily is still reprobated under Redemptionis Sacramentum (this prohibition also includes women). I don’t think that is likely to change anytime soon.

Agreed! I was referring to Bobzills comments that the Church allows lectors to be women in conflict with PatienceAndLove’s scriptural quote.

 

[Phemie]

This is good to know as I didn’t know the layperson can do this in a group. This is a good suggestion as I will see if someone wants to start this or I will. Now I just have to learn about it and get a book on it as I have been thinking of doing anyways and I do get the magnificat and there are some that also ge the mag and I give the old issues to others that can’t afford it.
I’m actually in a spirit club so maybe I can incorporate it in to one of our meetings. This is a good idea for my meetings as my leader is always looking for ways to encourage us spiritually Thanks!

If you wish I can email you the format we use out of the Canadian Catholic Book of Worship.

I did some summer courses in Liturgy and to complete the course we had to take on a project in our parishes. My project was establishing the Liturgy of the Hours, mainly Evening Prayer for logistical reasons, and I ended up leading it or cantoring for many of the celebrations (we used the LOH on the days there was no Mass).

Unfortunately, the people we thought would take to this, the ones who are at Mass every day that there is one, don’t feel that they’ve prayed since the LOH is mostly sung except for the readings. “We didn’t even pray, all we did was sing” was the reaction we got. Apparently it isn’t prayer if we haven’t recited the Rosary. It attracted a different group who loved Evening Prayer.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Agreed! I was referring to Bobzills comments that the Church allows lectors to be women in conflict with PatienceAndLove’s scriptural quote.

I’m confuzzled.
Are you supporting me?

 

[Tedster]

I’m confuzzled.
Are you supporting me?

ABSOLUTELY!

In post #65, you quoted scripture (I Corinthians 14: 34-35) saying “women keep silence in the churches” to which bobzills stated in post #66 that

“It looks to me like the Catholic Church doesn’t follow this. Women are offically allowed to read the epistle in Church and also they are allowed to conduct the communion service.”

My comments about why female lectors were allowed was a semi sarcastic one stating that the Church has bent the rules as far as lectors are concerned, NOT female homilists, because Matthew 19:8 says:
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.”

But I agree with you 1000% on the female homilist part!

 

[Aramis]

A layperson is forbidden to give the homily during the Mass, which is the service including the consecration.

In exceptional circumstances, laypersons my be granted faculties to preach during a communion service (liturgy of the presanctified gifts) by the bishop, but not if any cleric is present. (And in the places where this is done for legitimate cause, if a priest is present, mass will be offered instead, with the priest preaching.)

It isn’t normative, and it isn’t well known.
Code of Canon Law:

Can. 766 The laity may be allowed to preach in a church or oratory if in certain circumstances it is necessary, or in particular cases it would be advantageous, according to the provisions of the Episcopal Conference and without prejudice to can. 767 §1.

Can. 767 §1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text.

§2 At all Masses on Sundays and holydays of obligation, celebrated with a congregation, there is to be a homily and, except for a grave reason, this may not be omitted.

§3 It is strongly recommended that, if a sufficient number of people are present, there be a homily at weekday Masses also, especially during Advent and Lent, or on a feast day or an occasion of grief.

§4 It is the responsibility of the parish priest or the rector of a church to ensure that these provisions are carefully observed.

intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P2I.HTM
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2J.HTM

 

[THurifer2]

ABSOLUTELY!

In post #65, you quoted scripture (I Corinthians 14: 34-35) saying “women keep silence in the churches” to which bobzills stated in post #66 that My comments about why female lectors were allowed was a semi sarcastic one stating that the Church has bent the rules as far as lectors are concerned, NOT female homilists, because Matthew 19:8 says:
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.”

But I agree with you 1000% on the female homilist part!

Actually women cannot be Lectors…they can be readers but the institution of Lector (which formerly was a minor order of the priesthood) is reserved for Men.

 

[Tedster]

Actually women cannot be Lectors…they can be readers but the institution of Lector (which formerly was a minor order of the priesthood) is reserved for Men.

Point conceded, The poster was referring to the term as a reader, and not as the minor order of Lector, and that was what I was responding to.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

ABSOLUTELY!

In post #65, you quoted scripture (I Corinthians 14: 34-35) saying “women keep silence in the churches” to which bobzills stated in post #66 that My comments about why female lectors were allowed was a semi sarcastic one stating that the Church has bent the rules as far as lectors are concerned, NOT female homilists, because Matthew 19:8 says:
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.”

But I agree with you 1000% on the female homilist part!

k