FEMALE MONKS: are there Catholic ones?

[Kathryn_Ann]

I don’t think that is why Sr. Mary Lou Kownacki refers to herself as a monk.

Perhaps the answer has to do with a book she wrote, which is titled *A Monk In The Inner City: The ABCs of a Spiritual Journey *. My sense (I haven’t read the book) is that she is using the term to deliberately shake up preconceptions of what a female religious does, and what she is doing.

I think she wants to invoke the image of the monastic Desert Fathers and Mothers of antiquity, who often lived solitary lives. Here is the description of the book on Amazon.com

amazon.com/Monk-The-Inner-City-Spiritual/dp/1570757607/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1335128914&sr=8-4

I thank you very kindly!:curtsey::curtsey: I guess I’m like the others here, wondering if if fact, the use of that term (outside of the literature above) is accepted by The Church. I’ll keep reading this thread and hope to learn more. I appreciate your reply very much!
Kathryn Ann:heaven:

 

[Gertabelle]

The terms abbey or priory are used to denote the size of the monastery and the community who lives there. A small community might live in a priory with a prior or prioress while a larger community might live in an abbey with an abbot or abbess running the show. Or, they might make things easy and just call it a monastery and be done with it.

Actually, the title of “abbey” is not up to a community to choose. **The title of abbey is a canonical distinction given by Rome **(not sure which group handles this).

When I was a Benedictine novice, the Archbishop “dropped by” for Vespers on Easter to announce that Rome had elevated our status to Abbey. We were only the second abbey of Benedictine nuns in the US. It was a really big deal.

Abbots and Abbesses have certain privileges that are unique to their position and not given to priors and prioresses.

Gertie

 

[jwinch2]

Actually, the title of “abbey” is not up to a community to choose. **The title of abbey is a canonical distinction given by Rome **(not sure which group handles this).

When I was a Benedictine novice, the Archbishop “dropped by” for Vespers on Easter to announce that Rome had elevated our status to Abbey. We were only the second abbey of Benedictine nuns in the US. It was a really big deal.

Abbots and Abbesses have certain privileges that are unique to their position and not given to priors and prioresses.

Gertie

I didn’t believe it was necessarily up to the community but that it was related to the size of the monastery and the number of religious there or the importance and influence of the particular monastery. My understanding is that often, a priory is connected to an abbey or archabbey, sometimes in other countries.

My comment about just calling it a monastery and being done with it is based on what I see in many places where they call themselves “St. X’s Abbey” but then also refer to the monastery.

 

[Dale_M]

I didn’t believe it was necessarily up to the community but that it was related to the size of the monastery and the number of religious there or the importance and influence of the particular monastery. My understanding is that often, a priory is connected to an abbey or archabbey, sometimes in other countries.

My comment about just calling it a monastery and being done with it is based on what I see in many places where they call themselves “St. X’s Abbey” but then also refer to the monastery.

The situation can be confusing. An example might be helpful, though. At Our Lady of the Mississippi Abbey (in Iowa), the nuns often refer to their abbey as a monastery even though they are led by an abbess. Who is referred to as Mother Firstname Lastname.

In 2003, this abbey helped created a daughterhouse in Norway: Tautra Mariakloster. The newly created monastery (which is how the nuns referred to it) was considered a “foundation.” It was led by Mother Rosemary, but was not independent. Oversight and ultimate decision-making was provided by Mother Gail Fitzpatrick of Our Lady of the Mississippi Abbey.

Tautra Mariakloster was approved to be granted the status of “simple priory” in late 2005. They gained that approval by the vote of the 70 abbesses of the Cistercian order who were meeting in Assisi, Italy.
tautra.no/documents/November%202005%20News.pdf

In early 2006, Mother Gail of the Iowa abbey formally declares Tautra Mariakloster to be an independent monastery and the nuns transfer their vow of stability from the Iowa abbey to their own monastery. The nuns then elected their first prioress.

In early 2012, Tautra Mariakloster was elevated to the status of “major priory.” This came after a vote of approval by all the abbesses of the Cistercian order in late 2011. This elevation in status means they can no longer lean on the Iowa abbey for financial assistance and for personnel.

The next step is for Tautra Mariakloster to become an abbey. But they will need at least 13 sisters for this to happen.
tautra.no/documents/Tautringer%20March%202012.pdf

And, throughout the entire process, the nuns of Tautra Mariakloster referred to their facility as a monastery.

But, the stages are (at least for Cistercians)
Foundation
Simple Priory
Major Priory
Abbey

 

[jwinch2]

The situation can be confusing. An example might be helpful, though. At Our Lady of the Mississippi Abbey (in Iowa), the nuns often refer to their abbey as a monastery even though they are led by an abbess. Who is referred to as Mother Firstname Lastname.

In 2003, this abbey helped created a daughterhouse in Norway: Tautra Mariakloster. The newly created monastery (which is how the nuns referred to it) was considered a “foundation.” It was led by Mother Rosemary, but was not independent. Oversight and ultimate decision-making was provided by Mother Gail Fitzpatrick of Our Lady of the Mississippi Abbey.

Tautra Mariakloster was approved to be granted the status of “simple priory” in late 2005. They gained that approval by the vote of the 70 abbesses of the Cistercian order who were meeting in Assisi, Italy.
tautra.no/documents/November%202005%20News.pdf

In early 2006, Mother Gail of the Iowa abbey formally declares Tautra Mariakloster to be an independent monastery and the nuns transfer their vow of stability from the Iowa abbey to their own monastery. The nuns then elected their first prioress.

In early 2012, Tautra Mariakloster was elevated to the status of “major priory.” This came after a vote of approval by all the abbesses of the Cistercian order in late 2011. This elevation in status means they can no longer lean on the Iowa abbey for financial assistance and for personnel.

The next step is for Tautra Mariakloster to become an abbey. But they will need at least 13 sisters for this to happen.
tautra.no/documents/Tautringer%20March%202012.pdf

And, throughout the entire process, the nuns of Tautra Mariakloster referred to their facility as a monastery.

But, the stages are (at least for Cistercians)
Foundation
Simple Priory
Major Priory
Abbey

Thanks. That is basically how I understood it but you certainly added some information. Are you a Cistercian Oblate or involved with them somehow?

Peace,

 

[Dale_M]

Are you a Cistercian Oblate or involved with them somehow?

OMG… Cistercians scare me.

I have a lot of respect for them and since there are no local Benedictine monasteries I did consider the idea of becoming a Cistercian Associate. But the Benedictine charism speaks to me more fully.

No, my interest comes from the happy situation of Our Lady of Mississippi Abbey having enough vocations that they could found a daughterhouse. At a time when the numbers of female religious are declining, I find them to be an inspiring story.

Unfortunately, New Melleray Abbey, our male Cistercians, doesn’t have such abundance. Please pray for them. Their average age is now above 70, and recently had to give up farming (which they had practiced since they were founded 150 years ago)

 

[Shannon46]

****Is there such a thing as a women who is a Catholic monk? I just read about a woman who is referred to as such.

Hmm,… it’s kind of interesting topic althogh I’ve never heard of Catholic monk but I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask if they really do exist.

 

[jwinch2]

Hmm,… it’s kind of interesting topic althogh I’ve never heard of Catholic monk but I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask if they really do exist.

Yes, there are Catholic Monks.

osb.org/

 

[jwinch2]

OMG… Cistercians scare me.

All Cistercians, or just the trappists?

 

[Gertabelle]

Hmm,… it’s kind of interesting topic althogh I’ve never heard of Catholic monk but I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask if they really do exist.

There are Franciscan monks, Carmelite monks, Benedictine monks, and on and on and on…

Oh my goodness, yes! There are indeed Catholic monks, and there have been for nearly 2000 years!

Gertie

 

[Dale_M]

All Cistercians, or just the trappists?

Good point. All Cistercians are not Trappists

I am not familiar with the Cistercians of the Common Observance, although from what I understand they have a couple monasteries in Wisconsin.

 

[Nowhere_Man]

There are Franciscan monks, Carmelite monks, Benedictine monks, and on and on and on…

Oh my goodness, yes! There are indeed Catholic monks, and there have been for nearly 2000 years!

Gertie

Franciscans and Carmelites are Friars, not monks; they have active charisms whereas monks are contemplatives. But you are right the Catholic Church has many, many monks! Benedictines, Brigittines, Cistercians, Carthusians, Trappists, so on and so forth.

 

[Gertabelle]

Franciscans and Carmelites are Friars, not monks; they have active charisms whereas monks are contemplatives. But you are right the Catholic Church has many, many monks! Benedictines, Brigittines, Cistercians, Carthusians, Trappists, so on and so forth.

You know what? I was actually thinking of nuns as female monks!

OK, I sit corrected, thank you. But there is a community of contemplative Carmelite monks in Wyoming, just north of my home. Well, at least as I understand it they are contemplative monks.

Gertie

 

[Nowhere_Man]

You know what? I was actually thinking of nuns as female monks!

OK, I sit corrected, thank you. But there is a community of contemplative Carmelite monks in Wyoming, just north of my home. Well, at least as I understand it they are contemplative monks.

Gertie

Hahaha well, it’s kind of a distinguishment without a difference; in practice, there’s no difference between monks and nuns.

Ah yes. The Carmelite Monks are an exception, and are technically not part of the “Carmelite family”, as in they aren’t under the rule of the Discalced or Ancient Observance Carmelites. They are a religious community of diocesan right (meaning they’re under the control of their Bishop) instead of being of pontifical right (autonomous with their own superiors). There’s nothing wrong with this, it’s how all new religious communities start out.

 

[Smugleaf]

There are nuns equivalent to female monks (or friars). Such nuns take solemn vows and are the older orders, such as Benedictines or Dominicans. All newer orders are in fact called congregations, not orders, and take simple vows.

In Polish, a nun who takes solemn vows is often called a “mniszka” and a monk or friar who takes solemn vows a “mnich”. There is no distinction that I know of in the English language, but certainly there is a difference theologically and canonically speaking.

 

[StevenFrancis]

****Is there such a thing as a women who is a Catholic monk? I just read about a woman who is referred to as such.

Please excuse my ignorance, but wouldn’t a female monk be a nun?

 

[StevenFrancis]

There are nuns equivalent to female monks (or friars). Such nuns take solemn vows and are the older orders, such as Benedictines or Dominicans. All newer orders are in fact called congregations, not orders, and take simple vows.

In Polish, a nun who takes solemn vows is often called a “mniszka” and a monk or friar who takes solemn vows a “mnich”. There is no distinction that I know of in the English language, but certainly there is a difference theologically and canonically speaking.

I learn something every day. Thanks!

Steven

 

[Smugleaf]

Happy to be of assistance

 

[Sr_Judith_Ann]

I am going to add some comments here because I don’t see any men or women religious responding to this question. There are so many nuances to this question and to your answers.

I am an enclosed contemplative (Poor Clare) Franciscan living in a monastery. We have an abbess. I have solemn vows of poverty, chastity, obedience and enclosure.

Am I a monk? I fit the description. I live an enclosed contemplative religious life.

I think that one has to know the history of the Church and each religious order to answer some of the questions posed here. Sometimes words are used as generalities. For example, I am sometimes called a sister, sometimes a nun when people refer to me. Sister is my title. Technically I am a nun because I take solemn vows. It doesn’t really matter what people call me since they do know that I live religious life in a monastery.

Each order/congregation is going to use terminology that is customary or traditional to their experience or history. It is difficult to generalize. In Europe there are different words used for the same thing here in the states. When I want to find a Franciscan Friar in Italy, I would look for a “convento”. Here in the US, if I were looking for a sister working in a school or a hospital, I would look for a “convent”. I can’t tell you how many times I have been told that monks live in monasteries. Yes, but so do I!

I must say that I was surprised to read that if one is faithful to the Church, they should stay away from Sr. Joan Chittister and her community. I wonder if anyone of us has a right to say something like that. Do you know if I am “faithful” to the Church? Do we know if any individual or community is “faithful” unless we are the individual or are members of that community? I think it is a little dangerous to make judgements or black and white or right and wrong statements. Perhaps we need to leave judgement to God as the Gospel says. Then we will never lack in charity.

I would like to simply add that we all have a piece of the truth. Think of it as a gem with many facets. Keep turning it around and you will see something different. This question and the others raised in the thread are like that. It is a broad, wonderful, exciting world out there with something for everyone!

May God give you peace!

 

[jwinch2]

I must say that I was surprised to read that if one is faithful to the Church, they should stay away from Sr. Joan Chittister and her community. I wonder if anyone of us has a right to say something like that. Do you know if I am “faithful” to the Church? Do we know if any individual or community is “faithful” unless we are the individual or are members of that community? I think it is a little dangerous to make judgements or black and white or right and wrong statements. Perhaps we need to leave judgement to God as the Gospel says. Then we will never lack in charity.

Sister,

Since it was me who made those comments, I suppose I should be the one to respond.

First of all, I have no way of knowing if you are faithful to the Church or not. Barring any verifiable information to the contrary, I would always assume that you are. However, what I do know is that Sister Joan has repeatedly advocated for issues which are against Church teaching. She has made no effort to hide this, and has done it all in the public forum.

You are right of course that there is no way for me or anyone else to judge the state of her soul, and I would never presume to do so. However, it is perfectly acceptable to judge one’s public behavior, and there is nothing uncharitable about doing so. We often seem to define charity as not saying anything uncomfortable or which might hurt someone’s feelings. That is not the case. Charity, unfortunately, often has to do with saying things which some do not want to hear, but are truthful nonetheless.

In this particular situation, I can assure you that I take no pleasure in the idea that some religious are advocating against Church teaching and even less pleasure at pointing it out. In the case of Sr. Chittister, there is a long track record of public behavior to look at. As for making “black and white” statements, I am not sure how you could suggest that one do otherwise. There are no hairs to be split here.

I pray for Sister Joan and all religious on a regular basis, and I will continue to do so. What I will not do is remain silent in the face of breaking from the tradition of the Church and by my silence, allow someone to unknowingly affiliate with a group which does not hold to the authentic teaching of the Magesterium of the Church. That would be the height of lacking charity. Either I am, or I am not, my brother’s keeper.

God Bless you Sister and thank you for being who and what you are.

Peace of Christ,

Jason