Female Pope

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englishredrose

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Hello
If Jesus Christ had been around as such ‘today’ do you not think He would have moved with cultural climate and had some females as in his selected ‘team’ and therefore He himself if Popes had been created as thus would have demanded a female Pope by now given that Women are much more accepted cultural and we no longer hidden away as floral wallflowers but fulfill vital part of the community just as much men? He chose all male because that was the general accepted normality of that time and culture. But today in the Western World things are very very different and women are still sub ordinate in that we have only ever had one female prime minister (for better for worse-no comment) and you guys yet to have a female even. But women are much more accepted and allowed onto the Altar even in the Catholic Church and am asking out of real curosity do you not think that Jesus would have moved with the times and culture and yeh, may be in some Eastern Cultures where women really are still subordinate he have his work cut out but in the Western World the Pope would have been female by now never mind Priests and Bishops.

Please note that yeh, am anglican and I myself really am neither for or against female priests but the fact they are female would stop me going. But am simply interested why is it taken the Church so long to catch up with the real world and wonder if Jesus had been in Human form Charge and Pope existed as thus would he have ensured that Women had as equal chance and be in all ‘ranks’ of the Church given that the climate and culture he was in… Given that it was only women who cared for His Human Body after His death etc.

I am interested in what discussion may follow and I want the discussion to draw from both Biblical and the World of Today and How it is.
peace
xxx
 
If Jesus Christ had been around as such ‘today’ do you not think He would have moved with cultural climate
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You are talking about JESUS, right?

The stuff that moves around “with the cultural climate” you shouldn’t get any of it on you and rinse the affected area thoroughly with clean fresh water for several minutes if you do.
 
We can’t assume on what He didn’t do. We only can act on what he did do.
 
Since Jesus is God, he is eternal. His message is not dependent on the “age” and customs he was born into.
 
englishredrose said:
But am simply interested why is it taken the Church so long to catch up with the real world…
peace
xxx
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The Church is of heavenly institution, rather than worldly. The Church is called to be leaven for the world. Problems arise when the world is leaven for the Church, for the Church is thereby corrupted. Jesus was rejected in His day on earth and those who faithfully follow His teachings will be rejected on this earth until this earth ceases to exist. Jesus was counter-cultural and the Church through the ages has been and will continue to be counter-cultural. We must remember that we do not have a natural end, but a supernatural end. Thus, what occurs around us affects our eternity only in how we choose to cooperate with identified evil, or resist it.
 
He was certainly willing to bend the rules in many regards.

However, he never condemned slavery. So obviously he ‘felt bound’ by at least *1 *bad custom. Unless we’re now of the mind that Jesus thinks slavery is good.
He spoke freely to the Samaritan woman at the well, and sent her to bring the other townspeople to the Gospel truth. In a sense, she was the first apostle (one who is sent) in a general sense. This conduct was highly objectionable under the gender customs of the day. He didn’t care. He appeared first after his ressurection from the dead to Mary Magdelene and then “sent” her to tell the others, including the twelve. Under the gender customs of the day, he should have, nay MUST have chosen a male for this role. He didn’t care. Yet he made neither of these, one of His apostles.

It isn’t about “equality”. It is about being equal but having different missions.
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What is the mission of women?

If the Priest takes on the role of the apostles within the Church, who takes on the role of Mary Magdelene, the women at the tombs, and the rest of the women you mention: Joana, Lydia, etc.?
 
This whole discussion is nonsensical because Jesus Christ, being the God of the Universe, was able to choose any date and time and place from among the whole of created history as the point of His Incarnation. He created the culture into which He was born; He was not constrained by it. If He wanted to be influenced by modern feminist cultural norms He would have waited until now to come.
 
Here’s the short answer.The Church does not have the authority to ordain women to the priesthood or any ordain ministry.So a "female pope would be theoretically impossible!
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
He was certainly willing to bend the rules in many regards.

However, he never condemned slavery. So obviously he ‘felt bound’ by at least *1 *bad custom. Unless we’re now of the mind that Jesus thinks slavery is good.

What is the mission of women?

If the Priest takes on the role of the apostles within the Church, who takes on the role of Mary Magdelene, the women at the tombs, and the rest of the women you mention: Joana, Lydia, etc.?
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Nuns.Which do not receive Sacred Orders.
 
It’s helpful to remember that Jesus broke many customs.

If He wanted a woman to be an apostle, He would have done it. Instead, he affirmed the greater role (in my opinion) for women to proclaim the Gospel to the children and therefore to the world in the form of the next generation of disciples.
 
If you think that, at any point in his Life, Christ did something because of the climate of the culture, then you’ve been reading the wrong Bible. Christ was about as counter-culture as they come.

So no, I don’t think that one chance in infinity that he would appoint a female priest, let alone Pope.
VeritasLuxMea said:
He was certainly willing to bend the rules in many regards.

However, he never condemned slavery. So obviously he ‘felt bound’ by at least *1 *bad custom. Unless we’re now of the mind that Jesus thinks slavery is good.
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Slavery, in and of itself, is not a negative system. In most instance, slave owners were required to feed, cloth, and at least partially educate their slaves so they could be of use. While there were those who abused the system, especially in the American South, slavery as it existed in the OT era, and early NT, was closer to what we’d consider indentured servitude.
What is the mission of women?
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If the Priest takes on the role of the apostles within the Church, who takes on the role of Mary Magdelene, the women at the tombs, and the rest of the women you mention: Joana, Lydia, etc.?
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Nuns, teachers, organizers. Woman have many, many rolls they can fill in the Church. They Church is simply incapable of ordaining women priests. instead of focusing on the two or three tings you can’t do, why don’t you turn your focus to the thousands of things you can. Remember, serving God is not about what you want, it’s about what HE wants. You may want to be a priest, but to reject God’s Church and it’s rules about this would be to reject God, who has guided His Church.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
But the equivalent to Nuns are Brothers, yeah? Do those roles differ? People keep emphasizing the difference, I just want to check if they differ…

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The roles may differ as nuns and brothers are different but, neither are ordained.
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VeritasLuxMea said:
But the equivalent to Nuns are Brothers, yeah? Do those roles differ? People keep emphasizing the difference, I just want to check if they differ…

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Nuns seem to have a greater focus on the care of the sick, the young, the elderly and the poor. In general, most… I can’t remember the word… nunneries?.. are build around a charitable focus. There are contemplative ones, but less frequently than monk cloisters, which are predominantly meditative in nature, and focus on theological study and apologetics. That’s not to say that monks don’t do charitable works or anything, their cloisters just generally aren’t built around a focus like the nunneries are.
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God called men and women to different vocations.Women to bear children ,and men to the priesthood.Both are very important in their own ways,and the Church affirms the equal dignity of women with men.But that being said Our Lord did not appoint women priest nor give his bride the Church the authority to do so.,Not having women priest is in no way lessing the role of women in the Church.It’s just stating Christ never intended women priest.
 
Actually, the majority of the religions of Jesus’ day did have female priestesses.
 
Joe_5859 said:
Actually, the majority of the religions of Jesus’ day did have female priestesses.
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Accurate. It’s true that Judaism in both of its forms (and by that I mean both among the Hebrews and the Samaritans) did not, but a huge number of the polytheistic religions of the region most certainly did. Rome was plenty partial to female “clergy” such as they were in the form of the Vestal Virgins.

As many of the other posters have noted, Jesus was extremely counter-cultural and bent and broke every rule in the book that had been made or over-emphasized by man. The laws He upheld were those dictated by Himself.

We cannot know if Jesus today would have chosen female Apostles but I’m in agreement that the answer is likely “no” given that He had no problem choosing plenty of women to be in His “inner circle” but roles that differed from those of the Apostles.

And for the red herring that is slavery… Jesus didn’t discuss abortion or euthanasia or gay marriage or environmentalism or a multitude of other things. But what He did tell us is that the whole of the law is contained in two commandments:
  • Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
  • Love your neighbor as yourself.
I mean, that pretty much wraps it up, doesn’t it?
 
Excellent points Deacon Jeff. Slavery of old was not the slavery of which we are most familiar. Slavery of more ancient times was more akin to the indentured servitude which brought in many immigrants to the New World.

That’s not to say that slaves in the past were abused. They were. They were abused due to having a lower social status, much in the way the poor are abused today and, well, throughout the history of mankind. And we all know what Jesus said about the poor.
 
benjohnson said:
It’s helpful to remember that Jesus broke many customs.

If He wanted a woman to be an apostle, He would have done it. Instead, he affirmed the greater role (in my opinion) for women to proclaim the Gospel to the children and therefore to the world in the form of the next generation of disciples.
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The LCMS is not in agreement with the office of the Papacy female or no, it’s anti Christ.
Thus it wouldn’t matter either way in that regard.

Mary.
 
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