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Iron_Donkey
Guest
No. Bad idea.
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wmw
Guest
From “Ask sister Martha Mary”:
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Colorad007
Guest
That is a really bad idea.
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fencersmother
Guest
No.
Of course, if you married the lady, I’d be all for you being her roommate. And nine months later, you could add still another roommate.
Of course, if you married the lady, I’d be all for you being her roommate. And nine months later, you could add still another roommate.
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1newcatholic
Guest
I think you’re on to something.
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twf
Guest
That answer seems to assume a couple with romantic feelings for each other…a man and woman who present themselves in public as a couple. It is very common, at least in my part of the world, for young people, especially students, of either sex to be roommates, without any assumption of “anything going on”. If you present yourselves as a couple, then yes, everyone will assume they are sleeping together, but platonic roommate arrangements are also very common.
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thewanderer
Guest
Lol, how can you know for sure from the little that has been revealed that this situation will definitely not be sinful? I said he may put either himself or this woman in the near occasion of sin. Which is absolutely true. Also, scandal is a very real element to consider, especially if it is publicly known that he is Christian. That doesn’t mean that his situation is necessarily sinful, but seeing as he has no compelling reason to room with her it seems at the very least imprudent to put yourself into a situation which may end up becoming a near occasion of sin, whether for him or for the woman, and which has a chance of causing scandal, and possibly so imprudent as to be sinful, depending on the particulars of the situation.
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Kelfa28
Guest
It’s just not a good idea at all.
I’ve had more then one girlfriend from my college days try to live with a male roommate. It’s never platonic, something always happens between the two and it doesn’t work out…not they are in an incredibly awkward situation where they have a lease but are now walking on eggshells around each other and can’t act normally within their own home.
Plus…there is just too much room for something really uncomfortable to happen.
Case in point…hubby and I don’t have a closet in our bathroom to store towels. We do have a closet directly outside of the bathroom and that is where our towels live.
This morning, when I took my shower…I forgot to grab a towel. No problem….I can just hop out of the shower and snag a towel, without thinking twice about it, or call for my husband to grab one for me.
If I was living with a male roommate in this situation, I’d probably freeze. I can’t ask him to get a towel for me….but I don’t know if I could get the towel without him seeing me…can I get out quick enough? What would I do/say if he does see me?
That is just one example. There are countless other things I do within my home that I am only comfortable doing around my husband and my children. They pajamas I wear, my bedtime routine, my morning routine, how I unwind…the list goes on and on. I would never dream of doing any of these things around a male that is not my husband…as innocent and carefree as they may be.
I’ve had more then one girlfriend from my college days try to live with a male roommate. It’s never platonic, something always happens between the two and it doesn’t work out…not they are in an incredibly awkward situation where they have a lease but are now walking on eggshells around each other and can’t act normally within their own home.
Plus…there is just too much room for something really uncomfortable to happen.
Case in point…hubby and I don’t have a closet in our bathroom to store towels. We do have a closet directly outside of the bathroom and that is where our towels live.
This morning, when I took my shower…I forgot to grab a towel. No problem….I can just hop out of the shower and snag a towel, without thinking twice about it, or call for my husband to grab one for me.
If I was living with a male roommate in this situation, I’d probably freeze. I can’t ask him to get a towel for me….but I don’t know if I could get the towel without him seeing me…can I get out quick enough? What would I do/say if he does see me?
That is just one example. There are countless other things I do within my home that I am only comfortable doing around my husband and my children. They pajamas I wear, my bedtime routine, my morning routine, how I unwind…the list goes on and on. I would never dream of doing any of these things around a male that is not my husband…as innocent and carefree as they may be.
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PrayerShark
Guest
Hook, line and sinker guys. This person (or situation pertaining to this person) doesn’t exist. I’d be surprised if a single woman would put out an ad specifying she exclusively wants a male roommate. Beyond the scandal you’re all beating on about, I’d be more concerned about the woman’s safety.
joshkt79:
55 year old woman don’t have sex? Is this true ladies? Your libido goes with your back I suppose.
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DeniseNY
Guest
In this day and age, with homosexuality and bisexuality being considered the norm by so many people, couldn’t even a same sex roommate be considered “causing scandal” and therefore a sin? For example, if Mary and Betty decide to room together and wmw thinks that they may be lesbians, should Mary and Betty refrain from the Eucharist because of someone else’s perception?
Again:
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twf
Guest
With your shower example, I wouldn’t be comfortable doing that with a male roommate (I’m a man). I think women are much more comfortable around each other, but a lot of men, at least the men I know, would not be comfortable walking around the house half-naked with even other men around.
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twf
Guest
Yep. That assumption is now sometimes made. If you truly want to avoid all potential scandal in this day and age you must live as a single person by yourself until you are married. Or you accept that the sin of scandal isn’t as readily committed as some seem to think.
In this day and age, with homosexuality and bisexuality being considered the norm by so many people, couldn’t even a same sex roommate be considered “causing scandal” and therefore a sin? For example, if Mary and Betty decide to room together and wmw thinks that they may be lesbians, should Mary and Betty refrain from the Eucharist because of someone else’s perception?
Again:
What if I were a single man and my single sister routinely came to visit. The neighbours might, per chance, observe a woman coming and going from my apartment. Perhaps my sister has an odd work schedule and thus her visits are during odd hours. The neighbours might jump to conclusions. Therefore, must I ban my sister from visiting my apartment to avoid the remote possibility of scandal?
The reality is, in any situation I’ve ever lived in, the neighbours won’t notice and won’t care. I’ve rarely known who my neighbours were, who they lived with, what their marital status was…
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thewanderer
Guest
Of course you wouldn’t have to ban your sister from visiting, but that’s because you have a good reason proportionate to the risk of scandal, she’s your sister and family ties are important. The thing with the scenario in the OP is that there is no good reason for him to room with a random woman he barely knows in a house with just the two of them. So in his case there is no proportionate good reason to balance out the risk of scandal and near occasion of sin.
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CuriousInIL
Guest
Where does the concept of balancing good reason vs risk of scandal come from?
This could be key for me because I have really struggled with these sorts of scandal posts, especially the last few in this thread that talk about, for example, sisters or perceived gay roommates. And that doesn’t even mention things such as an unmarried couple walking into a hotel - for example to go to the restaurant - but being seen causes the perception of scandal that they are instead going to a room.
If this balancing test can be brought to bear, then many of my issues will be resolved.
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thewanderer
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Its called the principle of double effect. If an action is not intrinsically immoral and will have both bad and good effects the action can be moral, despite the bad effects so long as the bad effects are not at all intended or desired and so long as the good effects are proportionate to the bad effects. So this is not the same as saying the ends justify the means, you can’t use the principle of double effect to justify using the pill as contraception, however, you can use this principle to justify using the pill for legitimate medical reasons. Does that make sense?
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CuriousInIL
Guest
I am well aware of the principle of double effect. I never thought to apply it to scandal/potential scandal issues. I will have to think more about it and whether I think it fully fits and resolves my issues. I tend to think it will not resolve anything-just shift the question from is it really scandal to is the good proportional to the bad.
For example, in the sister visiting example, I don’t think that the weighing is done between seeing the sister and the potential scandal. Rather it is having her visit the brother’s apartment at the hypothetical odd times and with those conditions (rather than say, both going to the parents’ house or arriving separately at a restaurant) as compared to the scandal/potential scandal.
Or in my couple going to a hotel restaurant example, it seems to me that the good of that restaurant doesn’t rate much so the conclusion is don’t do it, go to a McDonald’s or someplace else that would not reasonably be thought of as a place for a potentially scandalous meeting.
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thewanderer
Guest
Well, part of that has to do with balancing between how much we are obligated to inconvenience ourselves and avoid normal and good things for a remote possibility of scandal. We shouldn’t let the fear of the unlikely event of someone who knows you well enough to know you are unmarried seeing you at a hotel restaurant with a woman and assuming you are sleeping there together and so leading them to be more likely to have sex outside of marriage. If the risk of leading others into sin by your example is low and your actions are innocent and normal by the standards of the culture at large (ie having a woman visit you in your apartment could mean you are up to something scandalous, but it is pretty common for friends, even friends of the opposite sex to visit each other at their own house/apt without doing anything innapropriate sexually. Since it is pretty normal in society for such an action to be completely innocent the risk of scandal is much lower, than say, such actions when men and women were never allowed alone without an escort/chaperon. Yes, it can still be a difficult balance to strike, its just one of those areas where there is no easy answer, but you just make the best call you can and don’t stress out about it too much. Always be willing to adjust your way of balancing it as you learn more about the best way to balance it, and if you have questions find a good priest you trust to help guide you in your decisions, but don’t let it become a subject for scrupulosity to grow in your life. Scrupulosity is a terrible spiritual disease and should never be encouraged.
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twf
Guest
In that case, I don’t agree that everyone will assume they are “doing something”. As mentioned in earlier posts, at least where I come from, platonic roommates, of any sex, are a common occurrence, especially among students, and there is no assumption of sexual activity unless the couple is in a stated romantic relationship. If in a romantic relationship, married or not, then yes there is usually an assumption of sexual activity.
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wmw
Guest
It doesn’t take everyone assuming it to make it a sin of scandal. You could have none thinking they are, then a second pair thinking they can do the same thing, but have a sin occur in the second pair living together.
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