Feminism gets a bad rap

[JackVk]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that feminism has become the boogey(wo)man of American politics. The Right is always portrays feminists as misandric, bra-burning, pro-abortion crazies who sneer at anyone who wants to be a mother. John Zmirak dismisses “pro-life feminists” as tantamount to “free-market Marxists”.

Let’s leave abortion out of the discussion. I find these debate tactics to be attacking a straw (wo)man. I somewhat identify as a feminist, and I’m a dude. I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.

And despite her good intentions, I don’t think the Church is helpful. Cardinal Burke’s comments about “feminization” struck me as quite chauvinistic. There’s also an unspoken attitude that any Catholic woman is Jezebel until proven an Our Lady. Speaking of Mary, her example can only go so far, as she is perfect. Plus, I lost a lot of faith in Rick Santorum when he said during the 2012 election that women should not serve in combat in the military. Hello? St. Joan of Arc?

What do you think?

 

[zamyrabyrd]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that feminism has become the boogey(wo)man of American politics. The Right is always portrays feminists as misandric, bra-burning, pro-abortion crazies who sneer at anyone who wants to be a mother. John Zmirak dismisses “pro-life feminists” as tantamount to “free-market Marxists”.
Let’s leave abortion out of the discussion. I find these debate tactics to be attacking a straw (wo)man. I somewhat identify as a feminist, and I’m a dude. I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.
And despite her good intentions, I don’t think the Church is helpful. Cardinal Burke’s comments about “feminization” struck me as quite chauvinistic. There’s also an unspoken attitude that any Catholic woman is Jezebel until proven an Our Lady. Speaking of Mary, her example can only go so far, as she is perfect. Plus, I lost a lot of faith in Rick Santorum when he said during the 2012 election that women should not serve in combat in the military. Hello? St. Joan of Arc?
What do you think?

I am a woman and anti-feminist. These harpies have destroyed the nicer things in life like chivalry and the mystery of human relationships. I do believe in equal under the law but different. Women in the military are a liability for so many reasons. They as a rule cannot pass the most rigorous endurance tests. Their presence in a fighting unit cannot be equal to men as there is always the element to having to protect them even if unconscious. Sorry, but we cannot really turn off ‘man as protector and woman as nurturer’. Joan of Arc also had a problem but she never pretended to be one of the guys.

Motherhood unfortunately has gotten a bad rap but it is still true the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. So much of the dysfunctions of present society is due to unmotherly mothers. But more than that, so many of the leaders of the feminist movement are men haters or misandrists. The very prominent lesbians even have admitted they want to abolish the need for men, so as to be able to rear children without them.

They want to assume the functions of men simply because they despise them and do not want to be answerable to them. They are the ones who encourage women to dress like men. I don’t. I choose clothing and hair styles that are feminine. I do not think women should be priests, ministers, rabbis or bishops and don’t feel deprived.

The worst manifestation of this movement are the Femens who in their attempt to show how equal they are, expose that which is most vulnerable and feminine. They have gone so far as to hate their own bodies and would kill the fruits of it. And I even believe there is a bad, even demonic spirit in them as evidenced in their atrocious attacks on churches.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.

So you engage in your own brand of straw bogeymen, eh?

 

[Regina7]

I am a woman and anti-feminist. These harpies have destroyed the nicer things in life like chivalry and the mystery of human relationships. I do believe in equal under the law but different. Women in the military are a liability for so many reasons. They as a rule cannot pass the most rigorous endurance tests. Their presence in a fighting unit cannot be equal to men as there is always the element to having to protect them even if unconscious. Sorry, but we cannot really turn off ‘man as protector and woman as nurturer’. Joan of Arc also had a problem but she never pretended to be one of the guys.

Motherhood unfortunately has gotten a bad rap but it is still true the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. So much of the dysfunctions of present society is due to unmotherly mothers. But more than that, so many of the leaders of the feminist movement are men haters or misandrists. The very prominent lesbians even have admitted they want to abolish the need for men, so as to be able to rear children without them.

They want to assume the functions of men simply because they despise them and do not want to be answerable to them. They are the ones who encourage women to dress like men. I don’t. I choose clothing and hair styles that are feminine. I do not think women should be priests, ministers, rabbis or bishops and don’t feel deprived.

The worst manifestation of this movement are the Femens who in their attempt to show how equal they are, expose that which is most vulnerable and feminine. They have gone so far as to hate their own bodies and would kill the fruits of it. And I even believe there is a bad, even demonic spirit in them as evidenced in their atrocious attacks on churches.

 

[BackHand]

It’s not just people on the right who are critical of feminists many people on the left also despise modern feminists, here are some examples why.

Gamer gate: This was basically a protest against a feminist movement led by Anita Sarkeesian a filthy whiner, who accused all gamers of being sexist, she used cherry picking to support her fictitious claims that could be easily disproved by any gamer who actually plays games. Apparently, Mario bros a 8 bit game about an Italian plumber running around in the sewers, stomping on turtles, is sexist because he saves the Princess who I guess is like helpless, because she’s a woman!
Even though if you actually play games you’d know that in Mario brothers two the Princess character is actually the most powerful one in the game because she has the ability to levitate for a short amount of time.

#CancelColbert was about that one femiNazi Suey Park who tried to cancel Stephen Colbert’s show for some out of context quote that he didn’t even make. youtube.com/watch?v=MNK-e6nnFGY
That’s a hilarious video of Parks getting owned

“Man spreading” was a campaign in New York to stop men from spreading their legs on subway trains, of course they don’t talk about pregnant women or women with shopping bags. youtube.com/watch?v=oo6D4MXrJ5c
Notice the dislikes on that YouTube video.

Then there are just general monstrosities that crawl out of the foul dank pit known as feminism, such as.

Feminist theater: youtube.com/watch?v=q7reSQd3uiA
Remember it’s art!

Or Feminists trying to ban clapping because it “triggers anxiety”
youtube.com/watch?v=rgrT…Fe_ww&index=40

 

[Kaninchen]

What do you think?

Hm, half a century of competitive ranting.

 

[Rhubarb]

Feminism as a movement has had many twists, turns and evolutions. It’s gotten to the point that the term ‘Feminism’ is ambiguous. First-Wave, Second-Wave, Third-Wave, Standpoint, Post-Feminism, Women’s Liberation, etc. There are some simple Feminist principles that I think every rational person can agree with - equal dignity of the sexes, for instance.

 

[BackHand]

So you engage in your own brand of straw bogeymen, eh?

Well not everyone is well versed in logical fallacies.

I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.

It’s not an incredibly radical or dangerous idea you subscribe to, seeing as how nearly everyone shares that viewpoint, are you like a time traveler? Has a wormhole opened up to the 1860s?!? TELL LINCOLN TO STAY AWAY FROM FORD THEATER!

Modern feminism: Protesting sexism in video games, while elsewhere in the world women are being circumcised and killed for going to school.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Modern feminism: Protesting sexism in video games, while elsewhere in the world women are being circumcised and killed for going to school.

A lot of men are getting killed too.
I would be more worried by the degradation of women by pornography in so-called enlightened countries.

 

[James82]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that feminism has become the boogey(wo)man of American politics. The Right is always portrays feminists as misandric, bra-burning, pro-abortion crazies who sneer at anyone who wants to be a mother. John Zmirak dismisses “pro-life feminists” as tantamount to “free-market Marxists”.

Let’s leave abortion out of the discussion. I find these debate tactics to be attacking a straw (wo)man. I somewhat identify as a feminist, and I’m a dude. I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.

And despite her good intentions, I don’t think the Church is helpful. Cardinal Burke’s comments about “feminization” struck me as quite chauvinistic. There’s also an unspoken attitude that any Catholic woman is Jezebel until proven an Our Lady. Speaking of Mary, her example can only go so far, as she is perfect. Plus, I lost a lot of faith in Rick Santorum when he said during the 2012 election that women should not serve in combat in the military. Hello? St. Joan of Arc?

What do you think?

 

[James82]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that feminism has become the boogey(wo)man of American politics. The Right is always portrays feminists as misandric, bra-burning, pro-abortion crazies who sneer at anyone who wants to be a mother. John Zmirak dismisses “pro-life feminists” as tantamount to “free-market Marxists”.

Let’s leave abortion out of the discussion. I find these debate tactics to be attacking a straw (wo)man. I somewhat identify as a feminist, and I’m a dude. I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.

And despite her good intentions, I don’t think the Church is helpful. Cardinal Burke’s comments about “feminization” struck me as quite chauvinistic. There’s also an unspoken attitude that any Catholic woman is Jezebel until proven an Our Lady. Speaking of Mary, her example can only go so far, as she is perfect. Plus, I lost a lot of faith in Rick Santorum when he said during the 2012 election that women should not serve in combat in the military. Hello? St. Joan of Arc?

What do you think?

Ironically it is your statement that is within the realm of straw. Catholics and conservatives do not (surprisingly!) sit around grumping that women should be cooking and cleaning machines. I am from an archconservative family and not ONCE has that ever been the spirit of any discussion I have been involved with.

What traditionalists would argue is that men and women both have a place suited to their nature within a society. The growth of a society depends on the rearing of children by a mother and father; furthermore it is only families of 3-4 that actually ‘give back’ to that society and encourage that growth. So logically 3-4 children would require much time in a kitchen (preparing food so they can grow).

Here’s the real kicker, someone needs to pay for that food to be prepared while the children are given maternal care! However this has nothing to do with squaring off man and woman against each other as ‘better’, ‘worse’, or ‘equal’. It’s about fulfilling and partaking in God’s natural order.

Do you want to see the results of a society that breaks away from this structure? Take a look on your TV, internet, magazines, etc.

A priest who has now passed away once told me during my confirmation that “When you truly see this world (i.e. the devils world) for what it is it will break your heart”. That has never been truer. I’ve gone from being pissed off and angry at the west to just pitying it. It is with utmost tragedy what has become of the Christian West; where now even pagan cultures mock us for our cultural suicide.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Ironically it is your statement that is within the realm of straw. Catholics and conservatives do not (surprisingly!) sit around grumping that women should be cooking and cleaning machines. I am from an archconservative family and not ONCE has that ever been the spirit of any discussion I have been involved with.

What traditionalists would argue is that men and women both have a place suited to their nature within a society. The growth of a society depends on the rearing of children by a mother and father; furthermore it is only families of 3-4 that actually ‘give back’ to that society and encourage that growth. So logically 3-4 children would require much time in a kitchen (preparing food so they can grow).

Here’s the real kicker, someone needs to pay for that food to be prepared while the children are given maternal care! However this has nothing to do with squaring off man and woman against each other as ‘better’, ‘worse’, or ‘equal’. It’s about fulfilling and partaking in God’s natural order.

Do you want to see the results of a society that breaks away from this structure? Take a look on your TV, internet, magazines, etc.

A priest who has now passed away once told me during my confirmation that “When you truly see this world (i.e. the devils world) for what it is it will break your heart”. That has never been truer. I’ve gone from being pissed off and angry at the west to just pitying it. It is with utmost tragedy what has become of the Christian West; where now even pagan cultures mock us for our cultural suicide.

I love cleaning and cooking, I really do, and am not an exception to other women I know. I also love my profession. What has really liberated women to pursue other activities outside the house were not the loud mouth feminists. They were labor saving devices, most of them invented by men. This fact is usually not recognized nor appreciated.

 

[Kaninchen]

I love cleaning and cooking, I really do, and am not an exception to other women I know. I also love my profession. What has really liberated women to pursue other activities outside the house were not the loud mouth feminists. They were labor saving devices, most of them invented by men. This fact is usually not recognized nor appreciated.

Hm, what’s your position on quiet feminists and loud-mouthed anti-feminists?

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Hm, what’s your position on quiet feminists and loud-mouthed anti-feminists?

They can marry one another for all I care.

 

[Kaninchen]

They can marry one another for all I care.

Even if they’re the same sex?

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Even if they’re the same sex?

Dear rabbit, if men won’t have them, what can I do?

 

[Micosil]

I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.

I know of no Catholic, young or old, layperson or clergy, that thinks women are just “cooking and cleaning baby machines”.

And despite her good intentions, I don’t think the Church is helpful. Cardinal Burke’s comments about “feminization” struck me as quite chauvinistic. There’s also an unspoken attitude that any Catholic woman is Jezebel until proven an Our Lady.

“Not helpful”?

Christianity seems to have been especially successful among women. It was often through the wives that it penetrated the upper classes of society in the first instance. Christians believed in the equality of men and women before God and found in the New Testament commands that husbands should treat their wives with such consideration and love as Christ manifested for his Church. Christian teaching about the sanctity of marriage offered a powerful safeguard to married women. — Henry Chadwick, The Early Church

Although these teachings emboldened secular authorities to give women fewer rights than men, they also helped form the concept of chivalry.[17] Chivalry was influenced by a new Church attitude towards Mary, the mother of Jesus.[18] This “ambivalence about women’s very nature” was shared by most major religions in the Western world.[19] The development of Marian devotions and the image of the Virgin Mary as the “second Eve” also influenced the status of women during the Middle Ages. The increasing popularity of devotion to the Virgin Mary (the mother of Jesus) secured maternal virtue as a central cultural theme of Catholic Europe. Art historian Kenneth Clarke wrote that the ‘Cult of the Virgin’ in the early 12th century “had taught a race of tough and ruthless barbarians the virtues of tenderness and compassion”. [20] — Catholic Church and women

Leading churchwomen held a high rank within medieval society. Abbesses, as female superiors of monastic houses were powerful figures whose influence could rival that of male bishops and abbots: “They treated with kings, bishops, and the greatest lords on terms of perfect equality;. . . they were present at all great religious and national solemnities, at the dedication of churches, and even, like the queens, took part in the deliberation of the national assemblies…”.[25] In England, abbesses of major houses were in attendance at all great religious and national solemnities, such as deliberations of the national assemblies and ecclesiastical councils. In Germany the major abbesses were ranked among the princes of the Empire, enabling them to sit and vote in the Diet. They lived in fine estates, and recognised no church superior save the Pope. Similarly in France, Italy and Spain, female superiors could be very powerful figures.[26] — Catholic Church and women

According to Catherine Wessinger, Catholic lay women have been increasingly called to play important roles in the Catholic Church; this trend is particularly strong in the United States.[75]

Cynthia Stewart asserts that, although the hierarchy of the Church is entirely male as a result of the restriction against ordination of women, the vast majority of Catholics that participate in lay ministry are women. According to Stewart, approximately 85 percent of all Church roles that do not require ordination are performed by women.[76] Catherine Stewart identifies several reasons for the increased role that lay women play in the Catholic Church:

1. 
   *]a shift in cultural attitudes leading to greater acceptance of women in leadership roles
   *]an increase in outreach ministries targeted at groups with whom women have traditionally worked (e.g. elderly and children)
   *]a greater willingness on the part of women to accept lower salaries than those offered by the secular world.[76]

1. 
   — Catholic Church and women

 

[Kaninchen]

Dear rabbit, if men won’t have them, what can I do?

They’d probably not get on anyway.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

They’d probably not get on anyway.

Do you mean the quiet and noisy feminists? This is the secret that they don’t want the cat out of the bag.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Chivalry was influenced by a new Church attitude towards Mary, the mother of Jesus.[18] This “ambivalence about women’s very nature” was shared by most major religions in the Western world.[19] The development of Marian devotions and the image of the Virgin Mary as the “second Eve” also influenced the status of women during the Middle Ages. The increasing popularity of devotion to the Virgin Mary (the mother of Jesus) secured maternal virtue as a central cultural theme of Catholic Europe. Art historian Kenneth Clarke wrote that the ‘Cult of the Virgin’ in the early 12th century “had taught a race of tough and ruthless barbarians the virtues of tenderness and compassion”.

I try to bring up the subject of Courtly Love in the Middle Ages in a discussion about women’s rights. If Rome wasn’t built in a day, also rights for slaves, women and children took a long time to implement. Ah, the joys of chivalry:

Where are the simple joys of maidenhood?
Where are all those adoring daring boys?
Where’s the knight pining so for me
he leaps to death in woe for me?
Oh where are a maiden’s simple joys?

Shan’t I have the normal life a maiden should?
Shall I never be rescued in the wood?
Shall two knights never tilt for me
and let their blood be spilt for me?
Oh where are the simple joys of maidenhood?

Shall I not be on a pedestal,
Worshipped and competed for?
Not be carried off, or better st’ll,
Cause a little war?
Where are the simple joys of maidenhood?

Are those sweet, gentle pleasures gone for good?
Shall a feud not begin for me?
Shall kith not kill their kin for me?
Oh where are the trivial joys?
Harmless, convivial joys?
Where are the simple joys of maidenhood?

From the Broadway musical “Camelot” (1960)
(Alan Jay Lerner / Frederick Loewe)