Feminism gets a bad rap

[BackHand]

Anita Sarkeesian made videos about the portrayal of women in video games. This included criticism of the sexualisation and objectification of women in video games, as well as the sexualisation of violence against women in video games. An example would be a video game which includes an explicit/pornographic sex scene with a woman, followed by the gamer having the option to murder her.

You mean Hitman Absolution? This is a rated M game where you kill people, the vast majority of which are male, I guess woman are supposed to be treated like special butterflies?
You know the game actually punishes you for killing random civilians? If you had to kill the hookers you actually messed up. This is a game where you strangle people to death, shoot them in their head with silenced pistols, snap their necks and throw them from 4 story buildings, yet people like you and Anita Sarkeesian only seem to get flustered when it occurs to women.

This is indicative of a larger problem which is censorship, you wish to alter art forms such as video games and movies because it offends your delicate sensibilities. Would it make you happy if this game was banned? Create your own games if you want, but don’t ruin gaming for the rest of us.

Sarkeesian made $230,000 by ironically playing the damsel in distress, creating a mere six web videos any 15-year-old with a cell phone and a tripod could make, that’s a lot of money, 44% of which has gone into “salary and wages”

Gamergate was/is a movement which sends Anita Sarkeesian, as well as other female gamers/game developers/game journalists hundreds of death threats, rape threats, threats of violence, messages telling them to kill themselves, ect.

Feminists do the exact same thing, also don’t lump for 4Chaners and all gamers in the same category it’s insulting.
avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/threats-of-violence-and-death-against-doubletree-hilton-in-detroit-over-mens-conference/

** We are talking about someone who blames school shootings on sexism.**

“We need to seriously address connections between violence, sexism and toxic ideas of manhood before boys and men commit more mass shootings.”
Anita Sarkeesian twitter.com/femfreq/status/525781140943011841

 

[BackHand]

True.

Unfortunately, I see that the tendency in this forum is to make a certain group, socialists, feminists, labor unions, etc., as the chief source for all of society’s ills.

I’m not blaming feminists for any sort of societal degrade what I’m doing is criticizing them for their silly beliefs. That’s the difference between scapegoating and criticism.

 

[Loly_Maria]

You mean Hitman Absolution? This is a rated M game where you kill people, the vast majority of which are male, I guess woman are supposed to be treated like special butterflies?

I believe that it was a Grand Theft Auto game. And the issue was that the violence was sexualised when it came to the women.

There have been incidents with sexism and school shootings - Elliot Rodgers being one example.

Linking to an MRA website, though, suggests even more so that your comments are more about your misogyny than they are genuine issues with Feminism .

 

[Sarcelle]

I’m not blaming feminists for any sort of societal degrade what I’m doing is criticizing them for their silly beliefs. That’s the difference between scapegoating and criticism.

Excuse me, was I addressing you? No, I was not. My post was a general observation of the forum as a whole. There have been other heated discussions on feminists, socialists, labor unions in this forum and there were instances of scapegoating.

Yeah, I know full well the difference between disagreement and scapegoating. I clearly was not addressing you in my post. I have seen way too many instances of scapegoating in this forum, not necessarily in this thread, to convince me otherwise.

 

[BackHand]

I believe that it was a Grand Theft Auto game. And the issue was that the violence was sexualised when it came to the women.

Oh my mistake, so we are talking about the game that has an entire level devoted to torturing a man by shocking him with a car battery, pulling out his teeth, beating him, then finally waterboarding him with gasoline, and you’re complaining about scantly clad strippers getting shot. Right.

I
There have been incidents with sexism and school shootings - Elliot Rodgers being one example.

She said this after another school shooting I believe Newtown which had nothing to do with sexism.
Elliot Rodgers stabbed and killed three men, and fatally shot one, so much for your MRA terrorist.

Linking to an MRA website, though, suggests even more so that your comments are more about your misogyny than they are genuine issues with Feminism .

I used that website as a source, that was literally the first time I have ever been on that site, I think you just hate men, see I can also engage in ad hominem attacks, I would appreciate it if you actually responded to my assertions with your own well sourced counterarguments instead of casually dismissing things you disagree with as misogyny.

Just out of curiosity are you someone who frequents Tumblr?

 

[gracepoole]

This came up last December around these parts… forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=933541&highlight=feminism



For the record, I wholeheartedly agree with you, OP.

 

[edwest2]

I’m not blaming feminists for any sort of societal degrade what I’m doing is criticizing them for their silly beliefs. That’s the difference between scapegoating and criticism.

The influence of radical feminism on American society cannot be underestimated. When it started, I was in full agreement with ‘equal pay for equal work’ for women, but they were also part of the Sexual – without love – Revolution. The woman, not the man, would be in charge of sex and any relationship like cohabitation. The patriarchy had to be overthrown, including the Church. They created a strong confusion about male and female roles that exists till today. The mass media joined in.

amazon.com/Extreme-Makeover-Transformed-Conformed-Culture/dp/1586175610

Peace,
Ed

 

[BackHand]

Excuse me, was I addressing you? No, I was not. My post was a general observation of the forum as a whole. There have been other heated discussions on feminists, socialists, labor unions in this forum and there were instances of scapegoating.

Yeah, I know full well the difference between disagreement and scapegoating. I clearly was not addressing you in my post. I have seen way too many instances of scapegoating in this forum, not necessarily in this thread, to convince me otherwise.

I thought you were making a blanket statement about anyone who disagrees with the values of feminists as being witch hunters, clearly that is not the case, you have my apologies.

 

[JackVk]

This came up last December around these parts… forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=933541&highlight=feminism



For the record, I wholeheartedly agree with you, OP.

Thank you! Being pro-life/pro-family and being a feminist are not mutually exclusive. Saying that women “need” abortion and contraception to advance their careers is like saying I “need” to embezzle money to pay for college tuitions. With distance learning and jobs at home thanks to the Internet, the career/family false dichotomy will become more and more irrelevant as the years go by.

I’m a business major in college, and in the workplace I like working with women. I work better with them and do not feel as on edge around them.

As for the examples of Abbesses and queens given by other posters, it’s important to point out that they were women of prestige and importance. In those days, Jane Peasant had to be content with being homemakers. And up until the '60s, women who didn’t want to have children were considered mentally ill. Not just abnormal. Mentally. Ill. I’m not saying motherhood is bad. I am saying that it is a vocation that must be embraced voluntarily.

Notice how I am not speaking in terms of sexual conduct. I believe that everyone must be chaste. Sex outside of marriage, contraception, abortion, one can be a feminist and reject all these things.

I’m not talking about Gloria Steinem or Simone de Beauviore or any of those feminazis. I am talking about those who feel rejected from their calling in life simply because they are women (the priesthood doesn’t apply here, that’s different). I am talking about those do don’t feel the need to get married at 22 and start having kids immediately.

A woman pursuing a career is often treated as a frigid shrew for not being supermommy already. Conversely, supermommy, who wants to be one, is shamed for sacrificing a potential career. Women cannot win. Society is always shoving its arbitrary whims and contradictory demands on them that it is difficult for them to make an informed decision.

 

[BackHand]

The influence of radical feminism on American society cannot be underestimated. When it started, I was in full agreement with ‘equal pay for equal work’ for women, but they were also part of the Sexual – without love – Revolution. The woman, not the man, would be in charge of sex and any relationship like cohabitation. The patriarchy had to be overthrown, including the Church. They created a strong confusion about male and female roles that exists till today. The mass media joined in.

amazon.com/Extreme-Makeover-Transformed-Conformed-Culture/dp/1586175610

Peace,
Ed

In my opinion the things you mention are just societal changes that are independent or at least mostly independent of the rise of modern feminism.

Peace

 

[Sarcelle]

I thought you were making a blanket statement about anyone who disagrees with the values of feminists as being witch hunters, clearly that is not the case, you have my apologies.

I in turn apologize for being snippy.

I would be a witch hunter myself. I am opposed to abortion and contraception, which to my dismay has been elevated to a right by a lot of feminists.

 

[BackHand]

Thank you! Being pro-life/pro-family and being a feminist are not mutually exclusive. Saying that women “need” abortion and contraception to advance their careers is like saying I “need” to embezzle money to pay for college tuitions. With distance learning and jobs at home thanks to the Internet, the career/family false dichotomy will become more and more irrelevant as the years go by.

I’m not saying you can’t be a feminist but the overwhelming majority of feminists will vehemently defend abortion and the right to contraceptives
(contraceptives by the way is not something I am legally against) if you spend any amount of time observing feminists particularly those attending college you’ll know this to be true.

And up until the '60s, women who didn’t want to have children were considered mentally ill. Not just abnormal. Mentally. Ill.

Could you provide sources for your assertions? I know raising a family was considered the norm but I didn’t know it was that extreme.

 

[JackVk]

I’m not saying you can’t be a feminist but the overwhelming majority of feminists will vehemently defend abortion and the right to contraceptives
(contraceptives by the way is not something I am legally against) if you spend any amount of time observing feminists particularly those attending college you’ll know this to be true.

Could you provide sources for your assertions? I know raising a family was considered the norm but I didn’t know it was that extreme.

Learned it from the American History textbook, Give Me Liberty! I can’t remember the author.

 

[BackHand]

I in turn apologize for being snippy.

I would be a witch hunter myself. I am opposed to abortion and contraception, which to my dismay has been elevated to a right by a lot of feminists.

It’s always nice to debate with adults, personally I’d be a grimm , The odd thing is I agree with a lot that feminists have to say, it’s just modern feminism that has turned me away from the movement, it’s come a long way since Susan B Anthony and not in a very nice direction.

 

[Loly_Maria]

Oh my mistake, so we are talking about the game that has an entire level devoted to torturing a man by shocking him with a car battery, pulling out his teeth, beating him, then finally waterboarding him with gasoline, and you’re complaining about scantly clad strippers getting shot. Right.

Yes, because there is a difference between violence and violence that is supposed to be erotic.

Elliot Rodgers stabbed and killed three men, and fatally shot one, so much for your MRA terrorist.

He made a video before the attack saying that his motive was that women wouldn’t have sex with him.

I think you just hate men, see I can also engage in ad hominem attacks, I would appreciate it if you actually responded to my assertions with your own well sourced counterarguments instead of casually dismissing things you disagree with as misogyny.

Just out of curiosity are you someone who frequents Tumblr?

I don’t hate men as a group, but I do hate misogynists.

If you think an MRA website counts as a well-sourced argument, then I’m happy to casually dismiss it.

I do use Tumblr.

 

[BackHand]

Learned it from the American History textbook, Give Me Liberty! I can’t remember the author.

Thanks It’s interesting to learn about these types of things, if you or any grown-up… wants to learn something amusing look up “female hysteria” or “wandering uterus”, It makes for fun reading .

 

[BackHand]

Yes, because there is a difference between violence and violence that is supposed to be erotic.

Who said it was supposed to be erotic? Even if it was, most normal men don’t get turned on when they see a hooker get killed. That’s odd. The prostitutes are added to make the players feel like they’re in a crime-ridden environment. Is there sexualizeation in grand theft auto? You bet. But don’t ignore murder and theft which saturate the game, this is not a game for children. In the movie Pulp Fiction there is a man in a gimp suit who is clearly sexualized, personally I don’t care because one scene later you see a man get murdered with a samurai sword. I do not get selectively outraged over certain sins.

He made a video before the attack saying that his motive was that women wouldn’t have sex with him.

Maybe it wasn’t a lack of sexual gratification that drove him to murder seven people, but a mental illness.

I don’t hate men as a group, but I do hate misogynists.

I don’t hate women as a group, but I do pity misandrists.

If you think an MRA website counts as a well-sourced argument, then I’m happy to casually dismiss it.

Well at least I gave a source.

I do use Tumblr.

That’s not surprising

 

[Loly_Maria]

Who said it was supposed to be erotic? Even if it was, most normal men don’t get turned on when they see a hooker get killed. That’s odd. The prostitutes are added to make the players feel like they’re in a crime-ridden environment. Is there sexualizeation in grand theft auto? You bet. But don’t ignore murder and theft which saturate the game, this is not a game for children. In the movie Pulp Fiction there is a man in a gimp suit who is clearly sexualized, personally I don’t care because one scene later you see a man get murdered with a samurai sword. I do not get selectively outraged over certain sins.

We will have to disagree on this then.

Maybe it wasn’t a lack of sexual gratification that drove him to murder seven people, but a mental illness.

He said himself that it was because he was angry with women. He was probably also mentally ill, but that doesn’t mean that misogyny didn’t play a role.

I don’t hate women as a group, but I do pity misandrists.

That’s fine. I’m happy to be called a misandrist :yup:.

 

[edwest2]

In my opinion the things you mention are just societal changes that are independent or at least mostly independent of the rise of modern feminism.

Peace

On the contrary, even a small amount of research shows that radical feminism was part of a coordinated attack against the Church and Christians in general. It is all about power and control. The woman will rule over the man. They will not be equals.

Fortunately, as always, God has left a faithful remnant. Married men and women who have resisted and ignored the poisonous messages of these groups. They are getting married and having children and are strongly committed to each other.

The radicals want only fornication and cohabitation. Marriage is not desirable, unless the woman is clearly in control, but easy divorce has been preached about for a long time as well.

Have faith my fellow Catholics. God is with us.

Peace,
Ed

 

[zamyrabyrd]

As for the examples of Abbesses and queens given by other posters, it’s important to point out that they were women of prestige and importance. In those days, Jane Peasant had to be content with being homemakers. And up until the '60s, women who didn’t want to have children were considered mentally ill. Not just abnormal. Mentally. Ill. I’m not saying motherhood is bad. I am saying that it is a vocation that must be embraced voluntarily.

I’m not talking about Gloria Steinem or Simone de Beauvoir or any of those feminazis. I am talking about those who feel rejected from their calling in life simply because they are women (the priesthood doesn’t apply here, that’s different). I am talking about those do don’t feel the need to get married at 22 and start having kids immediately.

A woman pursuing a career is often treated as a frigid shrew for not being supermommy already. Conversely, supermommy, who wants to be one, is shamed for sacrificing a potential career. Women cannot win. Society is always shoving its arbitrary whims and contradictory demands on them that it is difficult for them to make an informed decision.

I am just wondering why you are so concerned about Jane Peasant who allegedly didn’t have the great rights that women do today. Why not also be concerned with Joe Peasant who had to slave not only to feed his children but pay tax so that the nobles could live more elegantly? Even aristocracy had some justification. The fruits of art, learning and architecture were made possible by a group however small having enough funds to provide these. Great musicians were supported by the Church and nobility. When that system broke down in the early 19th century composers were free to starve.

I never heard that women who didn’t want to have kids were considered mentally ill. They used to go to the convent. Again, why are you rallying for a cause that doesn’t exist?