Feminism gets a bad rap

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zamyrabyrd said:
I am a woman and anti-feminist. These harpies have destroyed the nicer things in life like chivalry and the mystery of human relationships. I do believe in equal under the law but different. Women in the military are a liability for so many reasons. They as a rule cannot pass the most rigorous endurance tests. Their presence in a fighting unit cannot be equal to men as there is always the element to having to protect them even if unconscious. Sorry, but we cannot really turn off ‘man as protector and woman as nurturer’. Joan of Arc also had a problem but she never pretended to be one of the guys.

Motherhood unfortunately has gotten a bad rap but it is still true the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. So much of the dysfunctions of present society is due to unmotherly mothers. But more than that, so many of the leaders of the feminist movement are men haters or misandrists. The very prominent lesbians even have admitted they want to abolish the need for men, so as to be able to rear children without them.

They want to assume the functions of men simply because they despise them and do not want to be answerable to them. They are the ones who encourage women to dress like men. I don’t. I choose clothing and hair styles that are feminine. I do not think women should be priests, ministers, rabbis or bishops and don’t feel deprived.

The worst manifestation of this movement are the Femens who in their attempt to show how equal they are, expose that which is most vulnerable and feminine. They have gone so far as to hate their own bodies and would kill the fruits of it. And I even believe there is a bad, even demonic spirit in them as evidenced in their atrocious attacks on churches.
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I despise how access to contraception and abortion has been elevated to a sacrament by most feminists and how women’s health is now a byword for those two abominations.
However, women should still retain the right to vote and to be treated as full human beings. I take exception to value of chivalry, since I know that this special treatment of men towards women were only extended to women of nobility. Women in the lower classes were fair game for men to brutalize.

So I agree with some tenets of feminism and disagree with others.
 
Kaninchen said:
No, the quiet feminists and loud-mouthed anti-feminists that I’d asked about.
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The psychological dissonance or lack of complimentarity has got to be the goofiest aspect of what were are supposed to swallow and believe when commonsense tells us the opposite. I mean, whose dishes are they, or curtains, or who gets to decide what furniture, not to mention the need for a guy to push back on, not another emotional needy ‘isha’? Two women together must be estrogen squared, yuck!
 
Sarcelle said:
I despise how access to contraception and abortion has been elevated to a sacrament by most feminists and how women’s health is now a byword for those two abominations.
However, women should still retain the right to vote and to be treated as full human beings. I take exception to value of chivalry, since I know that this special treatment of men towards women were only extended to women of nobility. Women in the lower classes were fair game for men to brutalize. So I agree with some tenets of feminism and disagree with others.
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What women’s liberation ironically has done is reduce them to sexual beings, instead of “ladies”. Obliging the government to subsidize contraception makes them even more dependent and seemingly unable to control themselves.
 
BackHand said:
Gamer gate: This was basically a protest against a feminist movement led by Anita Sarkeesian a filthy whiner, who accused all gamers of being sexist, she used cherry picking to support her fictitious claims that could be easily disproved by any gamer who actually plays games. Apparently, Mario bros a 8 bit game about an Italian plumber running around in the sewers, stomping on turtles, is sexist because he saves the Princess who I guess is like helpless, because she’s a woman! :rolleyes:
Even though if you actually play games you’d know that in Mario brothers two the Princess character is actually the most powerful one in the game because she has the ability to levitate for a short amount of time.
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Anita Sarkeesian made videos about the portrayal of women in video games. This included criticism of the sexualisation and objectification of women in video games, as well as the sexualisation of violence against women in video games. An example would be a video game which includes an explicit/pornographic sex scene with a woman, followed by the gamer having the option to murder her.

Gamergate was/is a movement which sends Anita Sarkeesian, as well as other female gamers/game developers/game journalists hundreds of death threats, rape threats, threats of violence, messages telling them to kill themselves, ect.

Just getting that clear.
 
I’m a woman. I’m not a feminist. Why? Because feminists don’t tend to respect women’s choices if they choose something other than Liberal dogma.

Choice means choice, even if a woman chooses something that you’d never choice.

When feminists start respecting my choices, then I’ll start respecting them. Nobody forced me to stay at home with my family, but I chose it.

I’m really not impressed by women who tell me that there should be more women in the boardroom, even if they are unqualified to be there. It really shouldn’t be about numbers, but about letting women rise as high as they want to go. It’s okay if most women don’t want to be power players in the work force, but just want a job that will allow them to keep a roof over their head. Women deserve to be in positions of power if they earned them, not because they have female body parts. That’s really quite shallow and demeaning to women.

I’m also not impressed that all modern feminism is offering me is more Statism and “slut walks”. I want more freedom in the world, not less. I remember what the world was like before 9-11 and I’m really sad that we’ve lost so much freedom in our society. What feminists offer is really a poor substitute for real, true freedom.

If feminism was just about “equal work/equal pay”, then I’d support it, but it’s not. It ignores when its preferred politicians are womanizers and treats women badly because they are more focused their agenda than actually protecting women. All women, not just their allies.

The fact that modern feminism rarely talks about how Christian women are raped and murdered by ISIS or the fact that honor killings are increasing in the West or the fact that their abortion policy really is “anytime, anywhere” really doesn’t lead me to respect the movement. Sexual liberation really isn’t as liberating as people make it sound. (Been there, done that, have the broken pieces of my heart to prove it).

They need to stop alienating conservative women and housewives and start focusing on issues that unite us, not divide us. Because right now that’s all they do is divide people. I don’t want to be a part of that.

Feminism has a bad rap because it’s been earned and deserved.
 
Loly_Maria said:
Anita Sarkeesian made videos about the portrayal of women in video games. This included criticism of the sexualisation and objectification of women in video games, as well as the sexualisation of violence against women in video games. An example would be a video game which includes an explicit/pornographic sex scene with a woman, followed by the gamer having the option to murder her.

Gamergate was/is a movement which sends Anita Sarkeesian, as well as other female gamers/game developers/game journalists hundreds of death threats, rape threats, threats of violence, messages telling them to kill themselves, ect.

Just getting that clear.
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In light of everything I said in my OP, I do think that secular culture is just as much of a contributor to sexism, if not more. GamerGate is a prime example of this. Female gamers show outrage at the fact that many female game characters are 110 pounds wet and running around in metal bikinis and g-strings.

Uh-oh! But that is an obstacle to Jimmy McNeck-Beard getting his masturbation fodder! So send those women death threats!

I’m a gamer and I would like to see female characters who are normal people. Good examples would be Ellie from The Last of Us, Athena from Borderlands, and Ilona from Advanced Warfare.

Also, I find myself sour to the well-meaning idea of chivalry. It is condescending by its very nature, assuming that every woman is a damsel in distress and utterly incapable of taking care of herself. Why do you think knights in shining armor are associated with fanstasy? Because they have no basis in reality. The Hound from Game of Thrones aptly observes that knights are simply glorified killers; their vows and codes and uniforms are merely for show.

Once again, if you think I’m just being cynical, ask Joan of Arc, Ignatius of Loyola, and Francis of Assisi. The latter two became knights not out of noble desires to fight for God, country, and woman, but for personal vainglory. And Joan had to straighten out the knights under her command, as they were a pack of foul-mouthed, lecherous drunks.
 
The main reasons that I am a Feminist are:
  • Feminism encourages me to do whatever I want with my own life. I can get married or stay single, I can be a homemaker or have a career, I can be religious or non-religious, ect.
  • Feminism protects victims of rape and sexual assault. It focuses on getting rid of rape culture. It puts the blame of sexual assault on the perpetrator, and not on the victim.
  • Feminism cares about the portrayal and representation of women in the media and in works of fiction.
  • Feminism is working to end slut-shaming and the objectification of women.
  • Feminism is working to get real sexual education in schools. When I was at school, I was taught harmful lies about sex, and I know that this happens a lot.
  • As well as the oppression of women, Feminism cares about all oppression and inequality.
  • Multiple other reasons.
 
Loly_Maria said:
The main reasons that I am a Feminist are:
  • Feminism encourages me to do whatever I want with my own life. I can get married or stay single, I can be a homemaker or have a career, I can be religious or non-religious, ect.
  • Feminism protects victims of rape and sexual assault. It focuses on getting rid of rape culture. It puts the blame of sexual assault on the perpetrator, and not on the victim.
  • Feminism cares about the portrayal and representation of women in the media and in works of fiction.
  • Feminism is working to end slut-shaming and the objectification of women.
  • Feminism is working to get real sexual education in schools. When I was at school, I was taught harmful lies about sex, and I know that this happens a lot.
  • Feminism cares about all inequality, not just the oppression of women.
  • Multiple other reasons.
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EXACTLY! These are the good fruits of feminism. It’s not all kid-phobia and “to blazes with your family!”.

That said, a true feminist should have a lot of outrage toward entertainment. Where were they when 50 Shades of Grey came out? A movie about a manipulative stalker and the emotionally fragile ditz who can’t live without him is about as sexist as one can get. I am truly surprised that feminists have yet to call for E.L. James’ head on a platter.
 
zamyrabyrd said:
The psychological dissonance or lack of complimentarity has got to be the goofiest aspect of what were are supposed to swallow and believe when commonsense tells us the opposite. I mean, whose dishes are they, or curtains, or who gets to decide what furniture, not to mention the need for a guy to push back on, not another emotional needy ‘isha’? Two women together must be estrogen squared, yuck!
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Well, I had two daughters and, apart from the (to be expected) bit of a door-slamming era during their mid-teens, I wouldn’t say that a the oestrogen level caused that much of a problem.
 
I may be wrong, but discussing feminism, it’s pros and cons, is kind of like discussing the labor unions. Both arose to address real evils, but not a lot of people are happy with the consequences of these two movements.

I now ask everyone. What do you think would society, Western society in particular, look like if the suffragettes, the founders of feminism, never fought for the right to vote, or if Margaret Sanger, never pushed for population control. Of course, it’s just all speculation.

What would be the lot of women be like today?
 
JackVk said:
The more I think about it, the more it seems that feminism has become the boogey(wo)man of American politics. The Right is always portrays feminists as misandric, bra-burning, pro-abortion crazies who sneer at anyone who wants to be a mother. John Zmirak dismisses “pro-life feminists” as tantamount to “free-market Marxists”.

Let’s leave abortion out of the discussion. I find these debate tactics to be attacking a straw (wo)man. I somewhat identify as a feminist, and I’m a dude. I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.

And despite her good intentions, I don’t think the Church is helpful. Cardinal Burke’s comments about “feminization” struck me as quite chauvinistic. There’s also an unspoken attitude that any Catholic woman is Jezebel until proven an Our Lady. Speaking of Mary, her example can only go so far, as she is perfect. Plus, I lost a lot of faith in Rick Santorum when he said during the 2012 election that women should not serve in combat in the military. Hello? St. Joan of Arc?

What do you think?
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Radical feminism was and is still out to destroy the family. And it was these same radicals that convinced some women of the ongoing lie that men are evil or will treat you like a slave. I was born in the mid-1950s, and No, it was not perfect but we had families where the majority of them were stable. Most moms were stay at home moms. These moms were not bored and unimaginative. My mother could paint, mix cement and, with her husband’s help, do other things. They were a team and the vicious feminist radicals hated that with a passion. Again, no, it was not perfect but it worked for the vast majority of people.

One of the founding members of the National Organization for Women, Betty Friedan, compared the family to “a comfortable concentration camp.”

Co-founder of Ms. magazine (yes, that’s where the divisive word comes from), Gloria Steinem, said: “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”

During the Women’s Liberation Movement of the 1970’s – I was there – men were called “male chauvenist pigs.”

And what is NOW up to today? Just go to now.org

The Church was not blind to this and Pope John Paul II approved and ordered published, the following letter. Here is an excerpt:

“2. Recent years have seen new approaches to women’s issues. A first tendency is to emphasize strongly conditions of subordination in order to give rise to antagonism: women, in order to be themselves, must make themselves the adversaries of men. Faced with the abuse of power, the answer for women is to seek power. This process leads to opposition between men and women, in which the identity and role of one are emphasized to the disadvantage of the other, leading to harmful confusion regarding the human person, which has its most immediate and lethal effects in the structure of the family.”

Full letter:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040731_collaboration_en.html

Peace,
Ed
 
Sarcelle said:
I may be wrong, but discussing feminism, it’s pros and cons, is kind of like discussing the labor unions. Both arose to address real evils, but not a lot of people are happy with the consequences of these two movements.

I now ask everyone. What do you think would society, Western society in particular, look like if the suffragettes, the founders of feminism, never fought for the right to vote, or if Margaret Sanger, never pushed for population control. Of course, it’s just all speculation.

What would be the lot of women be like today?
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I think it’s a mistake to see where we are today as somehow a simple product of anything, with easy to blame naughty groups/forces. Many things happen at the same time and work on one another and where capitalism - the most revolutionary force in history - happens to be at any given time has a huge impact on how we live our lives and the demands made on us.
 
Kaninchen said:
I think it’s a mistake to see where we are today as somehow a simple product of anything, with easy to blame naughty groups/forces. Many things happen at the same time and work on one another and where capitalism - the most revolutionary force in history - happens to be at any given time has a huge impact on how we live our lives and the demands made on us.
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True.

Unfortunately, I see that the tendency in this forum is to make a certain group, socialists, feminists, labor unions, etc., as the chief source for all of society’s ills.
 
JackVk said:
The more I think about it, the more it seems that feminism has become the boogey(wo)man of American politics. The Right is always portrays feminists as misandric, bra-burning, pro-abortion crazies who sneer at anyone who wants to be a mother. John Zmirak dismisses “pro-life feminists” as tantamount to “free-market Marxists”.

Let’s leave abortion out of the discussion. I find these debate tactics to be attacking a straw (wo)man. I somewhat identify as a feminist, and I’m a dude. I subscribe to the radical, dangerous idea that… women are capable of being something more than just cooking and cleaning baby machines.
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I don’t know anyone who thinks that. Got some real-life examples?
There’s also an unspoken attitude that any Catholic woman is Jezebel until proven an Our Lady.
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I’ve never run into that one, either. Where do you find these people?
 
JackVk said:
That said, a true feminist should have a lot of outrage toward entertainment. Where were they when 50 Shades of Grey came out? A movie about a manipulative stalker and the emotionally fragile ditz who can’t live without him is about as sexist as one can get. I am truly surprised that feminists have yet to call for E.L. James’ head on a platter.
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I agree with this. Although, there are a lot of Feminists who were/are opposed to Fifty Shades (as well as to Twilight, which has very similar problems).
 
Loly_Maria said:
An example would be a video game which includes an explicit/pornographic sex scene with a woman, followed by the gamer having the option to murder her.
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You mean Hitman Absolution? This is a rated M game where you kill people, the vast majority of which are male, I guess woman are supposed to be treated like special butterflies?
You know the game actually punishes you for killing random civilians? If you had to kill the hookers you actually messed up. This is a game where you strangle people to death, shoot them in them head with silenced pistols, snap their necks and throw them from 4 story buildings, yet people like you and Anita Sarkeesian only seem to get flustered when it occurs to women.

This is indicative of a larger problem which is censorship, you wish to alter art forms such as video games and movies because it offends your delicate sensibilities. Would it make you happy with this game was banned?
 
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