Feminisms effect on women

[neat62]

Who every suggested that women were better than men? If you think I did then you misread my statements.If another person outright said that then they are def mistaken. Women are no better than men b/c they are women and men are no better than women b/c they are men. They are equal and complementary not equal and the same.

But using the PMS comment is def wrong!!! I** wish men would experience hormone issues and see how they like it.** Besides not all women exhibit PMS like symptoms. And to discredit a women’s argument just b/c you don’t like it and automatically resort to the whole “she must be PMSing” excuse is childish! And I’m sorry if that is unchristian for me to say your remark is childish and offensive but it is.

What makes you think men don’t experience hormone issues? Men actually do go through monthly cycles just like women. In addition men and women experience hormonal changes as they age…but of course, we are only supposed to believe that women can become irrational and moody and use the excuse of “hormones”…sigh…

As for the comment being offensive…I am sure if I said it…it would be considered perfectly acceptable…or if I was to say…“sorry, I must have been PMS’ing”…everyone would laugh, but because the statement was made by a male we are supposed to somehow find it “offensive”…sigh…

Demonstrating clearly how feminists seek superiority and how they just cause confusion in society…they want to be able to say and do whatever they please and then chalk it up to hormones, but men…don’t you dare ever insinuate such a thing cause you will be immediately chastised and called a “chauvinist!”

 

[Calliso]

What makes you think men don’t experience hormone issues? Men actually do go through monthly cycles just like women. In addition men and women experience hormonal changes as they age…but of course, we are only supposed to believe that women can become irrational and moody and use the excuse of “hormones”…sigh…

As for the comment being offensive…I am sure if I said it…it would be considered perfectly acceptable…or if I was to say…“sorry, I must have been PMS’ing”…everyone would laugh, but because the statement was made by a male we are supposed to somehow find it “offensive”…sigh…

Demonstrating clearly how feminists seek superiority and how they just cause confusion in society…they want to be able to say and do whatever they please and then chalk it up to hormones, but men…don’t you dare ever insinuate such a thing cause you will be immediately chastised and called a “chauvinist!”

Actually believe it or not…most people would likely find it insulting even if a woman had said it. And in what way was the statement not offensive then? Should I have not taken offense should I have been glad that he called me little miss pms?

 

[neat62]

Then I apologize to you.

This assumes that most women who get abortion are feminists or liberals and I am not sure that is true.

I don’t see why you are blaming the women, when it is just as much the fault of guys.

Which is a good thing - it has saved lives.

Well, that is your interpretation of His words. My point is that the way you interpret the verse doesn’t make sense. To me the verse seems to explain why certain things in life are the way they are - painful childbirth and men dominating women. I don’t get the sense that God is saying that this is the ideal - either with painful childbirth or with men over women. You seem to want to ignore the first half of the verse and keep the half which fits your interpretation.

If I may…I am going to suggest to anyone interested…a wonderful series that discusses exactly why we need to defend the sanctity of family and why traditional gender roles are essential to doing so.

**The Catholic Family **by Fr. John Corapi, explains in great detail what the Church teaches and how we are all responsible for bringing the sancity of family BACK into society!

 

[Carolinagirl411]

Contempt based on behavior or attitudes, yes; anatomy no.

I don’t think women hold contempt for men for having certain appendages… I think SOME men like to think that though based on Freud haha Sorry I couldn’t help myself seeing as I’m a psychologist. Anyway usually the women hold the men in contempt for their sexist, power hungry, dominant behavior. Or they feel they are being unfairly treated, etc. I wouldn’t expect a man to hold me in contempt based on the fact that I have female organs…unless he wanted to know what it was like to have a child.

No it’s you who need to look up the laws.

Alright I will admit mistake graciously here. I would not see why someone should pay the other person for starting the divorce.

Aha, so there is a case where you think it OK for a woman to live off a man. Your claim to the opposite is shown to be untrue. Never mind that he probably took the big-bucks job because, feminist rhetoric notwithstanding, it was deemed HIS responsibility to support the family and thus HE had to take a job he may not have liked to bring in the bucks. SHE on the other hand didn’t have to worry about the $$$ and could do something she actually enjoyed.

No, my dad required her to take that job b/c it fit with our schedules as children. He also expected her to come home after a grueling day at work to clean, take care of us, and have supper completely ready for him on the table when he got home from his DESK job, and then for her to clean it up after they were done while he watched tv. When we (the children) grew up we helped with the cleaning. She had it rough. She also paid for her entire education as a teacher and paid off all her loans. He never helped out. He enjoyed his job trust me. He was able to sit at a desk and give orders to people under him to do the actual work. He also got to travel which is where he met his whores. do not assume you know my parents motives based on your preset notions. I know some women take advantage of wealthy men but not all women are like that. Those laws are in place to protect the women who aren’t like that. If you take those laws away to get back at the money grubbers you will be punishing the good women out there. My dad didn’t fight for us at all! He gave us up to my mom to take care of based on her small salary. he didn’t contribute to our education. I paid for my own college. He paid mom alimony but she used that to keep food in our mouths and clothes on our back and to help me in school whenever she could.

It is you who have no clue as to what is actually happening today. Men are not voluntarily leaving but are evicted from their homes, and are only allowed to see their children once every 2 weeks or so…{/Quote]

Again you are generalizing…I know about 500 families personally that ended in divorce…Granted that is not the entire population…but in ever situation the man voluntarily left to be with another woman. My mother was kicked out of the house and had to get her own. Most of the men were happy not to have the kids with them so they can get on with their lives. You are generalizing to the entire population with your above statement. I’m just showing you that is not the case.

No, if you hold your feminist/equality ideals seriously, you will agree to a joint physical custody arrangement with no money changing hands. But if you are a hypocrite like many are, all of a sudden you will wax eloquently about how children need their mothers and how it’s a father’s duty to support his children.

Children need their mother AND their father equally. It has been proven in thousands of psychological studies. If I could get a joint physical custody arrangement with no money I would be fine with that. The father and mother taking on children expenses equally. However in the situations I’ve seen personally the fathers don’t care about seeing the children. I’m sure you’ve seen the opposite but I’m just saying it isn’t a black and white issue…many shades of gray.

Sure, and the decision the court makes the most often is, sole custody to the mother, with a hefty child support order.

The courts evaluate each situation individually, if the children would be better off emotionally, physically, cognitively with their mother then yes they should go to their mother. Psychologically children tend to fare better with mothers. But that is not ALWAYS the case, especially if the mother is abusive, ambivalent, etc. Children need both parents.

Advocacy groups have this nasty habit of inflating statistics and not referencing them. Feminist advocacy groups often flat-out lie (like the Superbowl domestic-violence hoax). Where’s an unbiased reference for this?

what would you consider unbiased and I’ll find one for you? I can contact police, government officials, doctors, psychologists if you want and I’m sure they’ll say the same thing that those statistics provide. Women outnumber men in being victims of assault and rape

 

[Carolinagirl411]

CONTINUED

Because men are manipulated into thinking women are a “prize” they must “earn”. This is changing however, as many men are finding today’s women aren’t such great shakes after all…

WOW lol i’m not an object…sorry there bud. I think that is a wrong mindset. My fiance wooed me so to speak but I in turn wooed him too. I took him out to dinner, bought him gifts, and he did the same for me. Just out of love for that person. Some men like that though, they like the thrill of the chase or the hunt and they get bored once they have “won” the girl and move on to the next. So therefore, women have learned to get a man, act like an object to be won. Not all men are like that and not all women do that.

Right, now why should society tolerate this kind of behavior and attitude? If society is serious about tapping into women’s heretofore unknown reservoirs of ability, then it should certainly not tolerate women taking the “easy way out”. It should demand the responsibility of women that women are so insistent they are able to bear. Which means, no women don’t get to make their way in life by seducing a rich man, manipulating him into some sham of a marriage, then divorcing after claiming “no longer fulfilled”

that’s what social change is for. But sex sells, you have to admit, and as long as there are men out there buying sex - Girls gone wild, porn, prostitutes, etc. women will use sex to get what they want b/c it is so easy. I do not approve of it and wish it didn’t happen but unless men stop going for it, women won’t stop doing it.

Hmmm, some might disagree with you about this “outstanding job”. It’s well known many women “accidentally” get pregnant oh, around about the time they are going to be scheduled for combat duty. Moreover, the standards have been “gender-normed” merely for the sake of getting more women there, who probably shouldn’t be in the first place. This has no place in the Armed Forces, where incompetence is not a joke but a matter of life and death.

Some women may have gotten pregnant to get out but I know quite a few who have been raped. My uncle is a high ranking officer and has served in Iraq 3 times and is now in afghanistan. I have other friends who are over there right now and my fiance used to be. They tell me horror stories of men who act low like dogs and treat women like meat and rape them. There may be the occasional woman who seduces a man to get pregnant and to get sent home but that is rare. Stress and tensions run high and horrible things happen. I’m just saying, it goes both ways. If women shouldn’t be in the military, like you say, then you can’t hold it against them that they don’t DIE for you freedoms. They wouldn’t be allowed to.

 

[Dynomite]

Quite a few people need a time out. There are things being said that are not only incorrect, but offensive. I’m looking at you, leftistdestroye(r)

I agree - actually there are large parts of this thread from an entire host of posters which are wholly offensive and seem to imply that women are some sort of sub-class of people.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Calliso;3613201]

Well you will have to explain how women dominate society then.

Men are pressured to act in a “politically correct” manner. TV, movies and advertisements are directed at women, we are asked to give money to a pink ribbon but pay no heed to other cancers, girls are given extra help while boys get Ritalin. Are there any mens groups in college? Any mens rights or masculanist groups in school? Colleges deliberatley take in at least 10% more women than men. Just a few.

I apologize for gettings things confused.

No need to apologize, there is a lot of words here, a lot of posts. I know, it get;s hard to keep them all straight.

However you can;t deny the world we live in isn;t wonderful there are bad things. Men have been more or less in charge in much of the world for much of history. You can;t take credit for the good things then not take at least some credit for the bad things as well.

Of course I will admit that, absolutely! And I, like you, like ALL of us, want to see it better. But bad things will always happen. A very sad fact.

Also I admit I do not know if women could do a better job but Idonlt think we should assume they would do worse!

Well, I saw what feminism did. My assumption is an educated guess, on my part.

Also I do live a comfortable life and I thank both the men and women and my life for that! Also if the last line is another fighting for freedom dying in combat giving their lives references…yes I owe that more to men then women but like has been said a bunch of times in many cases women weren;t even allowed in combat.

It was indeed. I prefer to thank women more for their maternalism, nuturing, compassion, and unconditional love. To me, THAT, is worthy of all the respect in the world.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Et Cetera;3613236]

Quite a few people need a time out. There are things being said that are not only incorrect, but offensive. I’m looking at you, leftistdestroye(r).

Offensive, I can deal with, but incorrect? Splain plees Lucy. And are you a moderator or something? Just asking, I am new.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

What makes you think men don’t experience hormone issues? Men actually do go through monthly cycles just like women. In addition men and women experience hormonal changes as they age…but of course, we are only supposed to believe that women can become irrational and moody and use the excuse of “hormones”…sigh…

As for the comment being offensive…I am sure if I said it…it would be considered perfectly acceptable…or if I was to say…“sorry, I must have been PMS’ing”…everyone would laugh, but because the statement was made by a male we are supposed to somehow find it “offensive”…sigh…

Demonstrating clearly how feminists seek superiority and how they just cause confusion in society…they want to be able to say and do whatever they please and then chalk it up to hormones, but men…don’t you dare ever insinuate such a thing cause you will be immediately chastised and called a “chauvinist!”

if I say or do something I consider irrational I take responsibility for it b/c I will not use the “pms” excuse b/c I’m afraid it would later discredit anything else I would do. B/c if some disagreed with me or didn’t want to take me seriously they would say she’s prob PMS’ing. I do not approve of using that as a get out of jail free card. If I am feeling particularly irrational and I feel it is due to hormones…I keep that in mind and stay away from people or take breaks from them to keep myself under control. I have been successful thus far. Not a hard thing to keep under control.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

Carolinagirl411;3613030

Let’s not get all hysterical now. You are so determined NOT to have a man support you(and/or a family), that it comes off as very manly and fiercely independant. Almost as if you are angry at men. You said:" I will not have a man supporting me in any fashion." Why? Why are you soooo against a man doing that? I mean, sounds like you won’t even consider it! EVER!

Listen, I would like to explain this further. I use all caps in typing to stress emphasis. I did not mean for it to sound like I was getting hysterical lol…that’s not helping my cause haha

Anyway…My fiance takes care of me…emotionally, spiritually, physically, and he has offered to take care of me economically as well. I love him for it but I would not want him to be burdened by me for something I can easily do myself. I need the emotional/spiritual/physical support but I’m not a lazy person. I work hard and therefore I want to be able to take care of myself. When we marry we will share equal financial responsibility. If something happens and he loses his job for a bit, I would expect to pick up the slack out of love for him and vice versa. i would not be opposed to that. For better or worse and sickness and health right? I am opposed to just sitting around wasting my talents letting him take care of my every need…I just can’t bear it. Some women were given the gift of being a stay at home mom, that is not me and hopefully never will be. I do not have their talents and patience. My father did not let my mother have equal footing financially and when he ditched her she had a rough time getting a strong footing. I do not want this to happen to me…I know it is personal baggage that makes me this way but I also don’t see it as fair to the man to shoulder all financial responsibility. Men don’t have to be the bread winner all the time. Why have all that stress when you have a partner to share the burden.

Hope that explains it a bit better. I don’t see independence as being a manly trait…I see it as a human trait. We all strive for independence…that’s why puberty is such a rough period!

 

[leftistdestroye]

Carolinagirl411;3613268]

Who every suggested that women were better than men? If you think I did then you misread my statements.If another person outright said that then they are def mistaken.

Yeah, sorry, someone else said that.

But using the PMS comment is def wrong!!! I wish men would experience hormone issues and see how they like it. Besides not all women exhibit PMS like symptoms. And to discredit a women’s argument just b/c you don’t like it and automatically resort to the whole “she must be PMSing” excuse is childish!

I said that to Calliso because she implied that women were better than men, which she apologized for. I didn’t do it to discredit her argument. I gave what I got.

And I’m sorry if that is unchristian for me to say your remark is childish and offensive but it is.

No need to apologize.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Dale_M;3613291]

Then I apologize to you.

Nah, no problem bud. forget it.

This assumes that most women who get abortion are feminists or liberals and I am not sure that is true.

No, I dont mean it like that. They have enabled state protected abortion.

I don’t see why you are blaming the women, when it is just as much the fault of guys.

Because feminism basically told women to be sexually liberated. Liberalism told the nation this is how it will be. But, I do blame men for going right along with it.

Which is a good thing - it has saved lives.

How so?

Well, that is your interpretation of His words. My point is that the way you interpret the verse doesn’t make sense. To me the verse seems to explain why certain things in life are the way they are - painful childbirth and men dominating women. I don’t get the sense that God is saying that this is the ideal - either with painful childbirth or with men over women. You seem to want to ignore the first half of the verse and keep the half which fits your interpretation.

I see what you are saying. So are we playing God by changing the way He set things up?

 

[leftistdestroye]

Calliso;3613328]

And in what way was the statement not offensive then? Should I have not taken offense should I have been glad that he called me little miss pms?

OK since you took the step as the bigger man() and apolgized for your comment, I will sincerely apologize to you for calling you miss pms. I am sorry Calliso.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Carolinagirl411;3613345

No, my dad required her to take that job

I thought women couldn’t get jobs? Humm.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

Lol thankfully they can get jobs now…

PS I replied to another post of yours earlier. Didn’t know if you saw it or not. #246.

 

[Et_Cetera]

I am just asking everyone to remain charitable.

 

[neat62]

Actually believe it or not…most people would likely find it insulting even if a woman had said it. And in what way was the statement not offensive then? Should I have not taken offense should I have been glad that he called me little miss pms?

Women make this statement all the time…is the point…and it is considered “normal” even “funny”…there are entire SITCOMS based on it and they are considered “entertainment”…so I find it difficult to believe that it was so “offensive”…besides, he has apologized.

Being charitible is wonderful, but let’s be honest, the topics at hand are not exactly “emotionless” topics…they do get “heated” and it is one of the reasons most of us enjoy this venue for airing our thoughts. Certainly it would be very boring if we all thought the same or constantly said…“yes, I can agree to disagree” these threads would be emptied in no time as the one thing we all look for is the challenge of debate.

Here we type our thoughts into a one dimention forum…I hardly believe that anything anyone says can be taken as so offensive…at least I would hope greatly, that we all have a whole lot more to deal with and worry about in life, than some goofy word typed on an internet site by someone we don’t even know.

Finally, its really hard to “assume” one’s tone…anything can be interpreted incorrectly…perhaps he didn’t mean to call you specifically that…but was referring to the constant use of that excuse by women, etc.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Dynomite;3613348

an entire host of posters which are wholly offensive and seem to imply that women are some sort of sub-class of people.

Who does that!?!?

But if you either disagree or don’t care about the negative effects of feminism on society, then I suppose you would take the position that you do. But from my perspective, it is all about the negative side effects of feminism. In my opinion, the truth hurts and is found to be PC “offensive” in today’s world, which actually proves that point.

As they say: If you are getting flack, then you must be over the target.

 

[SeekingCatholic]

I don’t think women hold contempt for men for having certain appendages… Anyway usually the women hold the men in contempt for their sexist, power hungry, dominant behavior.

That’s waaay too nebulous. If a woman wants to become CEO, that’s encouraging “female empowerment” but if a man wants to he’s “power hungry”? If a woman refuses to be pushed around, she’s scoring a blow for the sisterhood but if a man takes the same attitude he’s exhibiting “dominant behavior”?

Alright I will admit mistake graciously here. I would not see why someone should pay the other person for starting the divorce.

No, indeed. Now couple that in with the fact that it is the woman who initiates the divorce approximately 75% of the time .

…do not assume you know my parents motives based on your preset notions.

I don’t.

I know some women take advantage of wealthy men but not all women are like that. Those laws are in place to protect the women who aren’t like that. If you take those laws away to get back at the money grubbers you will be punishing the good women out there.

A false dichotomy. Laws can be reformed to provide justice for everyone. And, is protecting women a higher consideration than justice? Some feminists would say yes. They’d say it’s an acceptable price to pay, if some men are convicted falsely of rape, in order to ensure the protection of women.

My dad didn’t fight for us at all! He gave us up to my mom to take care of based on her small salary. he didn’t contribute to our education. I paid for my own college. He paid mom alimony but she used that to keep food in our mouths and clothes on our back and to help me in school whenever she could.

A sad situation. But again equal rights imply equal responsibilities.

Again you are generalizing…I know about 500 families personally that ended in divorce…Granted that is not the entire population…but in ever situation the man voluntarily left to be with another woman. My mother was kicked out of the house and had to get her own. Most of the men were happy not to have the kids with them so they can get on with their lives. You are generalizing to the entire population with your above statement. I’m just showing you that is not the case.

I suggest your (abnormally large) sample is skewed by selection bias. You knew these families through your professional practice didn’t you?

Children need their mother AND their father equally. It has been proven in thousands of psychological studies. If I could get a joint physical custody arrangement with no money I would be fine with that. The father and mother taking on children expenses equally. However in the situations I’ve seen personally the fathers don’t care about seeing the children. I’m sure you’ve seen the opposite but I’m just saying it isn’t a black and white issue…many shades of gray.

Consider why those are the situations you’ve seen personally.

The courts evaluate each situation individually, if the children would be better off emotionally, physically, cognitively with their mother then yes they should go to their mother. Psychologically children tend to fare better with mothers. But that is not ALWAYS the case, especially if the mother is abusive, ambivalent, etc. Children need both parents.

I absolutely reject this interpretation of parens patriae. If the mother initiates the divorce and is the one responsible the children should stay with the father, or at least a joint physical custody arrangement. If the State steps in (and it does) it becomes a kidnapper. Why not go further and remove children even from intact families, without evidence of abuse or neglect, if there is evidence children would be better off with another family? Moreover I don’t buy your argument that psychologically children tend to fare better with mothers. Look at some statistics at how children raised by single fathers do by comparison.

what would you consider unbiased and I’ll find one for you? I can contact police, government officials, doctors, psychologists if you want and I’m sure they’ll say the same thing that those statistics provide. Women outnumber men in being victims of assault and rape

THAT wasn’t the issue. The issue is exactly how often women were victims of sexual harassment.

 

[Swan]

Quite a few people need a time out. There are things being said that are not only incorrect, but offensive. I’m looking at you, leftistdestroye(r)

I agree - actually there are large parts of this thread from an entire host of posters which are wholly offensive and seem to imply that women are some sort of sub-class of people.

My favorite thus far:

“Women don’t network as well with people; they network well among other women” Women aren’t people? Odd… I must be confused, I always thought I was a person.

Agreed. What we need to remember (and what is greatly evidenced here) is that angry, bitter people are incapable of reason.

I also posted a link in the news section on the reasons women get AIDS in third world countries. The reasons all dealt with the subjugation of women in much the same way that some of these posters seem to be extolling - makes you think:

http://haneydaw.myweb.uga.edu/twwh/aids.html