Feminist "Philosophy"

[AngryAtheist8]

It is very typical of those whose arguments are found wanting and whose intellectual endeavours are questionable to try and evade and distract. You have given us ample proof.
Notwithstanding, I do indeed apologise for my spelling errors. I admit, I am not the world’s greatest typist. However, considering how you are want to misinterpret and misrepresent, I doubt any spelling improvements on my behalf would help you any.

For someone who seems to be demanding a real debate you’re quick to use personal insults John.

To be honest, I initially dismissed your posts in this thread due to the spelling errors and other issues (with the posts) that I have already mentioned. I have also been preoccupied with In Spiration’s ‘we should seriously consider the idea that women are intellectually inferior’ nonsense for the past couple of posts.

But if you really want to debate this I am willing to participate.

Just state your claims/assertions as clearly as possible and I will respond.

But you might want to start a new thread for it. I think that this one will become consumed by In Spiration’s stuff and those replying to it.

 

[inocente]

What I can say is that I presently *lean toward *the belief that men are generally superior re: physical and intellectual abilities (viz. philosophical, scientific, mathematical, artistic, etc.). Finally, for the record: women are naturally more empathetic and compassionate than men.

Males are on average stronger than females as they have a greater percentage muscle and are physically larger. US males are also on average taller than Japanese males, yet we might want to think twice before asserting that Japanese males are inferior to US males.

Historically many societies have educated females to lower standards than males using a syllabus selected by males. Self-fulfilling prophesy - educate females to lower standards in ways that don’t interest them anyway and gee whizz they’re intellectually inferior so there’s no point educating them . Yet those same societies entrusted the vital role of raising children to females, and child labor was common in male-dominated Christian counties 150 years ago - dominant males are not so hot at running things.

victorianweb.org/history/hist8.html
eiu.edu/eiutps/childhood.php

There definitely are differences between men and women, but rating one as better depends on who sets their educational syllabus, the values of their society, and who’s doing the judging. It also raises the question of motives when ¡viva la diferencia!

independent.co.uk/news/science/womens-brains-uareu-different-from-mens-ndash-and-heres-scientific-proof-870849.html
scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=girl-brain-boy-brain

If the only thing feminism has ever achieved is to shake us into always looking at the bigger picture then that alone makes it worthwhile.

 

[Betterave]

Other Catholics should explain such basic theology to you. But since none of them are speaking up at the moment, the task falls to me.

I’m another Catholic, so I’ll speak up.

InSpiration has already very patiently answered your silly objection here about “basic Catholic theology.” It is very clear you don’t know what you are talking about, and that are are uninterested or unable to take in new information and process it and respond to it rationally. If you are simply unable, that’s unfortunate. If you have simply been uninterested up to this point, maybe you should try to get interested, at least if you wish to continue the discussion.

 

[Betterave]

I only speed-read it, but thanks, hilarious, very good ad for feminism and cause and effect. Don’t educate slaves and hey presto they won’t turn out to be so bright, proving there’s no point educating them. Continually treat homosexuals badly and hey presto they have a higher suicide rate, proving there’s something wrong with them. Isn’t it amazing there’s just enough news to fill-up the newspaper every day! A fine dead-pan satire.

With this post I take it you’re trying to support the feminist cause by proving that there are plenty of stupid men?

Next time you “speed-read” something, try not to make foolishly condescending comments that prove that you actually didn’t read it.

 

[LogisticsBranch]

What I can say is that I presently *lean toward *the belief that men are generally superior re: physical and intellectual abilities (viz. philosophical, scientific, mathematical, artistic, etc.). Finally, for the record: women are naturally more empathetic and compassionate than men.

I’m a woman. I think men can be just as empatheitc and compassionate as women can be. As far as the rest of your statement, it’s absolutely without a doubt in my mind and experience untrue. Futhermore, it’s biased and bigoty too. Your belief system in this case is contrary to reality. I will also tell you this much, I wouldn’t and don’t hang around in real life outside of the Internet with men or women who think as you do. That is the TRUTH!

 

[Betterave]

I’m a woman. I think men can be just as empatheitc and compassionate as women can be. As far as the rest of your statement, it’s absolutely without a doubt in my mind and experience untrue. Futhermore, it’s biased and bigoty too. Your belief system in this case is contrary to reality. I will also tell you this much, I wouldn’t and don’t hang around in real life outside of the Internet with men or women who think as you do. That is the TRUTH!

Er… If you are a women who wants to defend the intelligence of women, you could at least begin at home by presenting an intelligent argument yourself. Naked assertions, question-begging, self-righteous outrage, and ad hominems don’t cut it.

 

[LogisticsBranch]

Er… If you are a women who wants to defend the intelligence of women, you could at least begin at home by presenting an intelligent argument yourself. Naked assertions, question-begging, self-righteous outrage, and ad hominems don’t cut it.

I have provided an intelligent arguement. A failed attempt of an anti-intellectual put down from you by your comment leads me to realize that once again a failure to impress me with your innuedos. Honestly, I’m quite sickened by men like yourself that wish to make women their object of put-downs. Very clear observation on my behalf, outside of the Internet there are no men (religous or non-religous) that treat woman with disrespect and vice versa. In this case, the topic of females by the men leave a lot to be desired. Good-bye!

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I’m another Catholic, so I’ll speak up.

InSpiration has already very patiently answered your silly objection here about “basic Catholic theology.” It is very clear you don’t know what you are talking about, and that are are uninterested or unable to take in new information and process it and respond to it rationally. If you are simply unable, that’s unfortunate. If you have simply been uninterested up to this point, maybe you should try to get interested, at least if you wish to continue the discussion.

Betterave you have not changed at all since we last communicated.

You jump right into the discussion with personal insults. Perhaps I should be offended, but in reality I am merely amused that someone showing such inflexibility is accusing me of not being able to process new information.

With regard to what In Spiration actually brought up, and the premise that its NOT against Catholic theology to promote the idea that women are inferior (intellectually or otherwise), I would like to call everyone’s attention to the words of Pope John Paul II:

Everything that has been said so far about Christ’s attitude to women confirms and clarifies, in the Holy Spirit, the truth about the equality of man and woman. One must speak of an essential “equality”, since both of them - the woman as much as the man - are created in the image and likeness of God. Both of them are equally capable of receiving the outpouring of divine truth and love in the Holy Spirit. Both receive his salvific and sanctifying “visits”.

The fact of being a man or a woman involves no limitation here, just as the salvific and sanctifying action of the Spirit in man is in no way limited by the fact that one is a Jew or a Greek, slave or free, according to the well-known words of Saint Paul: “For you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28).

Source: MULIERIS DIGNITATEM (link vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html).

Now one can argue about how sincere the clergy are when they say stuff like this, or debate Church attitudes and treatment towards women throughout history (as I have), but the official Church position (as outlined by the Pope) seems pretty clear cut.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

With this post I take it you’re trying to support the feminist cause by proving that there are plenty of stupid men?

Next time you “speed-read” something, try not to make foolishly condescending comments that prove that you actually didn’t read it.

Once again Betterave, you are attacking the person, not the argument.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Er… If you are a women who wants to defend the intelligence of women, you could at least begin at home by presenting an intelligent argument yourself. Naked assertions, question-begging, self-righteous outrage, and ad hominems don’t cut it.

Where are your intelligent arguments Betterave?

So far you have contributed nothing to this thread but unimaginative insults. Moreover from everything I have seen of you on this board that is your usual M.O.

 

[ignatius777]

Ok, so tell me if I’m way off base here.

I’m a philosophy student and I’m a female. I believe women are equal to men but don’t ascribe to modern feminist hokum. The very fact that feminist “philosophy” exists as a discipline drives me absolutely nuts! To me, it’s almost like saying “Hey, we want to play too but since we can’t actually contribute to metaphysics or ethics or epistemology we want you to make up a type that we can do!” It’s doing the exact opposite of what feminism ought to stand for. The way that we should be making society take us seriously is by actually showing that we are capable of working and thinking on par with a man, not this “philosophical special olympics” BS that we call “feminist philosophy.”

What does feminism have to do with philosophy anyhow? Ok, yes we’re equal to men. That’s really about it. Why do we feel the need to whine and moan until they make something special up for us? If you can’t contribute to real philosophy, go join the womens studies department and leave it up to those of us that wear big girl panties!

Modern feminism wants “equal” to mean the same thing as “alike” but they are entirely different.

 

[Betterave]

I have provided an intelligent arguement. A failed attempt of an anti-intellectual put down from you by your comment leads me to realize that once again a failure to impress me with your innuedos. Honestly, I’m quite sickened by men like yourself that wish to make women their object of put-downs. Very clear observation on my behalf, outside of the Internet there are no men (religous or non-religous) that treat woman with disrespect and vice versa. In this case, the topic of females by the men leave a lot to be desired. Good-bye!

LOL! Wow, another great display of intelligent critical thinking skills. Good-bye indeed.

---

 

[Betterave]

Betterave you have not changed at all since we last communicated.

That’s a good thing, right?

You jump right into the discussion with personal insults. Perhaps I should be offended, but in reality I am merely amused that someone showing such inflexibility is accusing me of not being able to process new information.

Insults? Oh I get it: you have again failed to process the information I gave and instead launched into a nonsensical ad hominem attack against me. Nothing like proving my point!

With regard to what In Spiration actually brought up, and the premise that its NOT against Catholic theology to promote the idea that women are inferior (intellectually or otherwise), I would like to call everyone’s attention to the words of Pope John Paul II:

Everything that has been said so far about Christ’s attitude to women confirms and clarifies, in the Holy Spirit, the truth about the equality of man and woman. One must speak of an essential “equality”, since both of them - the woman as much as the man - are created in the image and likeness of God. Both of them are equally capable of receiving the outpouring of divine truth and love in the Holy Spirit. Both receive his salvific and sanctifying “visits”.

The fact of being a man or a woman involves no limitation here, just as the salvific and sanctifying action of the Spirit in man is in no way limited by the fact that one is a Jew or a Greek, slave or free, according to the well-known words of Saint Paul: “For you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28).

Source: MULIERIS DIGNITATEM (link vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html).

Now one can argue about how sincere the clergy are when they say stuff like this, or debate Church attitudes and treatment towards women throughout history (as I have), but the official Church position (as outlined by the Pope) seems pretty clear cut.

It is perfectly clear cut: the Pope is not making any empirical claim about the actual intellectual capacities of men compared to women. Where in this little passage does the Pope contradict anything InSpiration has said? Maybe you really ought to consider the possibility that you really didn’t grasp what it was he has claimed in this thread?

 

[Betterave]

Once again Betterave, you are attacking the person, not the argument.

Dude: I pointed out that inocente made false claims which he should have known were baseless and quite probably false, since he obviously didn’t read the article he so condescendingly criticized. Your pretending that my pointing this out is nothing but a personal attack is reee-diculous!

 

[Betterave]

Where are your intelligent arguments Betterave?

Let me repeat: It is very clear you don’t know what you are talking about, and that are are uninterested or unable to take in new information and process it and respond to it rationally. If you are simply unable, that’s unfortunate. If you have simply been uninterested up to this point, maybe you should try to get interested, at least if you wish to continue the discussion.

So far you have contributed nothing to this thread but unimaginative insults. Moreover from everything I have seen of you on this board that is your usual M.O.

Er, no: nice try.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

That’s a good thing, right?

Insults? Oh I get it: you have again failed to process the information I gave and instead launched into a nonsensical ad hominem attack against me. Nothing like proving my point!

Here is your first post in this thread:

I’m another Catholic, so I’ll speak up.

InSpiration has already very patiently answered your silly objection here about “basic Catholic theology.” It is very clear you don’t know what you are talking about, and that are are uninterested or unable to take in new information and process it and respond to it rationally. If you are simply unable, that’s unfortunate. If you have simply been uninterested up to this point, maybe you should try to get interested, at least if you wish to continue the discussion.

You wrote nothing dealing specifically with the arguments/evidence put forth by myself, David Stove, or In Spiration. Instead you called me ignorant and implied that I was unable to process new information (e.g. stupid if not mindless).

If you cannot see the insults Betterave, the fault is your own.

 

[LogisticsBranch]

LogisticsBranch;7545970:

Betterave;7545887:

LogisticsBranch;7545770:

In Spiration;7540076:

What I can say is that I presently *lean toward *

the belief that men are generally superior re: physical and intellectual abilities (viz. philosophical, scientific, mathematical, artistic, etc.). Finally, for the record: women are naturally more empathetic and compassionate than men.
I’m a woman. I think men can be just as empatheitc and compassionate as women can be. As far as the rest of your statement, it’s absolutely without a doubt in my mind and experience untrue. Futhermore, it’s biased and bigoty too. Your belief system in this case is contrary to reality. I will also tell you this much, I wouldn’t and don’t hang around in real life outside of the Internet with men or women who think as you do. That is the TRUTH!
]Er… If you are a women who wants to defend the intelligence of women, you could at least begin at home by presenting an intelligent argument yourself. Naked assertions, question-begging, self-righteous outrage, and ad hominems don’t cut it.
I have provided an intelligent arguement. A failed attempt of an anti-intellectual put down from you by your comment leads me to realize that once again a failure to impress me with your innuedos. Honestly, I’m quite sickened by men like yourself that wish to make women their object of put-downs. Very clear observation on my behalf, outside of the Internet there are no men (religous or non-religous) that treat woman with disrespect and vice versa. In this case, the topic of females by the men leave a lot to be desired. Good-bye!

LOL! Wow, another great display of intelligent critical thinking skills. Good-bye indeed.

---

Betterave, tisk, tisk for you. Apparently, you can’t comprehend the conversation as it unfolded. Obviously, I don’t support David Stove, In Spiration or your views. The Pope regards men and women equal. There are women on his scientific advisory committee and other committees! Hey, and don’t forget Mother Teresa. She was incredibly intelligent. Your continued attack on women lacks charity. As far as I’m concerned, your current etiquette is hurtful and a great disappointment, considering you claim to be a Catholic. You haven’t added anything worthwhile to the topic as far as I am concerned except for rhetoric.

I also would like to thank AngryAtheist8 for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it. Best wishes to you.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

That’s a good thing, right?

It is perfectly clear cut: the Pope is not making any empirical claim about the actual intellectual capacities of men compared to women. Where in this little passage does the Pope contradict anything InSpiration has said? Maybe you really ought to consider the possibility that you really didn’t grasp what it was he has claimed in this thread?

You cannot understand why the claim that men and women are essentially equal contradicts the idea that women are intellectually inferior?

Really

You obviously don’t know what the word equal means.

This definition should help,

Equal:

— adj (often foll by to or with )

1. identical in size, quantity, degree, intensity, etc; the same (as)
2. having identical privileges, rights, status, etc: all men are equal before the law
3. having uniform effect or application: equal opportunities
4. evenly balanced or proportioned: the game was equal between the teams
5. ( usually foll by to ) having the necessary or adequate strength, ability, means, etc (for): to be equal to one’s work
6. another word for equivalent

Source: Dictionary.com (link dictionary.reference.com/browse/equal)

P.S. If I recall correctly Betterave your a TA, so you should have no objection to learning something new

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Dude: I pointed out that inocente made false claims which he should have known were baseless and quite probably false, since he obviously didn’t read the article he so condescendingly criticized. Your pretending that my pointing this out is nothing but a personal attack is reee-diculous!

Here is what you actually wrote:

Originally Posted by Betterave View Post
With this post I take it you’re trying to support the feminist cause by proving that there are plenty of stupid men?

Next time you “speed-read” something, try not to make foolishly condescending comments that prove that you actually didn’t read it.

In the first sentence you call him stupid, and in the second sentence you accuse him of being obviously ignorant of the subject material. But there is nothing about his actual argument or claims in your post.

Just insults.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I suppose I shouldn’t feed the troll, but I find Betterave funny.

Kind of like a campy movie, a so bad its good sort of thing.