Fetuses May Not Feel Pain in Early Months

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Conflict of interest found int Fetal Pain Study. Looks like the study was authored by abortion rights advocates. From LifeSiteNews.com:
Abortion Fetal Pain Study Authored by Abortion Rights Activists

SAN FRANCISCO, August 25, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The mainstream media are reporting on a “study” (actually, an interpretation of existing medical literature) published in this week’s Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). The authors argue that there is no good evidence that unborn humans feel pain before the third trimester (after 29 weeks gestational age).

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NARAL even rears it ugly head in this.

PF
 
Thx for the link.
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WanderAimlessly:
Conflict of interest found int Fetal Pain Study. Looks like the study was authored by abortion rights advocates. From LifeSiteNews.com:NARAL even rears it ugly head in this.

PF
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place your bets
news of 2006 on either plannedparenthood or naral is pro-lifers can’t feel pain.
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Conflict of interest found int Fetal Pain Study. Looks like the study was authored by abortion rights advocates. From LifeSiteNews.com:NARAL even rears it ugly head in this.

PF
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PF:

This study is PROOF of how desperate the Pro-Abortion people are to justify what they’re doing… They have the same genetics studies we do, and the same sonograms. In fact, they’re the ones who handle the 7 a week old Pre-born Babies that they’ve killed, and they’d have to be blind to see that what they’re killing are not humans.

This is the last in a long line of pathetic arguments the Pro-Abortionists have used to justify the slaughter of the Innocent. As the genetic evidence and the other evidence mounted, they could see that their arguments and definitions of what constituted life put themselves and their loved ones in the same dumspters where they were throwing the remains of the Babies they were slaughtering.

We can’t let them change the form of the debate. We can’t let them say that some people have to die because of the QUALITY OF LIFE. We have to remind them that our human dignity comes from the fact that we are HUMAN BEINGS, not from our QUALITY OF LIFE. We might want to show them that we are “living souls” made in the image and likeness of God and that is something said by almost every major world religioN, and that this is the only thing that keeps us all out of the dumpsters they’ve been throwing the remains of the babies they slaughtered into.

Let them know that there’s only one way out that keeps us from the barbarism their culture would take us to… Let them know they’re only one way to live with the person in the mirror.

I think if we apply ourselves to prayer and to talking to the abortionists, we might be able to bring a couple over to our side.

They published this sudy to assuage guilt, and nothing else.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones, Michael
 
Whetever or not they feel pain is not an issuse. UNBORN BABIES (I hate the word fetus) are growning daily in their mother’s wombs. It’s just another tactic to justify abortions. It’s not a choice-it’s a child:love:
 
This one line from the JAMA article says a lot.

"Pain perception requires conscious recognition or awareness of a noxious stimulus. Neither withdrawal reflexes nor hormonal stress responses to invasive procedures prove the existence of fetal pain, because they can be elicited by nonpainful stimuli and occur without conscious cortical processing."

Everyone experiences a strong reflex response to pain by attempting to withdraw immediately from the source of pain without using their conscious brain first. No one stops long enough to process the thought in their higher cerebral cortex, “Oh, this stove plate is hot! I think I will remove my hand before it gets burned. Right hand move now from the left back corner stove plate before epidermis is injured.” By the time that message is constructed and received by the brain, the burn would be pretty deep. This argument is disingenuous balderdash. It is the same line of reasoning used to kill Teresa Schindler Schiavo. They are refusing to believe the evidence they can witness with their own eyes because they have a political agenda. The context of the JAMA article clearly identifies that when they referred to “proposed federal legislation”.
 
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Rosalinda:
Pain perception requires conscious recognition or awareness of a noxious stimulus. Neither withdrawal reflexes nor hormonal stress responses to invasive procedures prove the existence of fetal pain, because they can be elicited by nonpainful stimuli and occur without conscious cortical processing."
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According to this reasoning, its impossible to prove that anyone feels pain (even people who say they do, since they could be lying!).
 
A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don’t feel pain until the final months of pregnancy, a powerful challenge to abortion opponents who hope that discussions about fetal pain will make women think twice about ending pregnancies.

Critics angrily disputed the findings and claimed the report is biased.
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That’s hardly surprising - unless one takes the view that the foetus is really a homunculus which enters the uterus with its physiological capacity to sense what stimulates whatever it perceives as painful, fully developed.​

To base an argument against abortion on the sentience of the foetus is as rash as basing an argument against involuntary euthanasia on the sentience of the aged. Neither sentience perceptible to outside observers nor sentience perceptible to the foetus or to the very old, has any bearing on the essential humanity of either. So the critics really should calm down a bit; and find better reasons for opposing abortion than the argument from sentience. ##
 
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abcdefg:
place your bets
news of 2006 on either plannedparenthood or naral is pro-lifers can’t feel pain.
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They have been saying this for years:( . They state that pro-life supporters are unable to feel the pain of the “mother” of the aborted child. They want us to feel her pain about the decision to abort. What they don’t want to do is feel the pain the child goes through to make the “mother’s” pain go away.

Of course they do not understand the fact that emotional pain while real is nothing compaired to the physical pain of being disected while alive. Animal rights people would be screaming real loud if this was the case in cats and dogs. Yet they can stand around and let this happen to humans. Go figure.

We need to pray for them all. A change of heart would be a wonderful thing.

GOD BLESS
 
Canadian physician says JAMA fetal pain study seriously flawed

Ottawa - Canadian Physicians for Life president Dr. Will Johnston criticized a study published this week in the Journal of the American Medical Association in which researchers concluded that a fetus likely does not feel pain before the third trimester, ruling out the need to administer anaesthesia to the fetus during second trimester abortions.

“One serious flaw with this study is that the researchers failed to disclose conflicts of interest arising from their ties to the abortion industry,” Dr. Johnston said. The lead researcher of the study once worked for NARAL Pro-Choice America, Knight Ridder reported this week. And another researcher, Dr. Eleanor A. Drey, is Medical Director of Women’s Option Centre, San Francisco’s largest abortion clinic. She is also on the staff of the pro-abortion advocacy centre, the Centre for Reproductive Health Research and Policy of the University of California San Francisco. “Would you trust a tobacco company to conduct research into the health risks of smoking and to objectively report the results?” Dr. Johnston asked.

Dr. Drey testified at the Partial Birth Abortion (PBA) trial in San Francisco in March 2004, stating that her clinic performs 2000 abortions per year, primarily on poor women, approximately 600 of which are performed at 20 weeks or later via D&E (dilation and evacuation, in which a live baby is dismembered by using an instrument to grasp body parts and pulling the pieces through the cervix). She testified she offers training in these procedures and she herself performs abortions, including “partial birth abortions”-the legal term used to describe the type of procedure banned by the PBA Act, in which a live baby is partially delivered before being killed. “We end up taking care of all the poor women who need abortions at 20 weeks and above for all of northern California,” she testified. She said that if the ban on partial birth abortion were passed, it would have a large impact on the physicians at her clinic, due to fear of prosecution. “I think it would be very difficult for us to provide second trimester abortions,” she said. continued…
 
continuation of response by Dr. Johnston of Canadian Physicians for Life

The impetus to ban the partial birth abortion procedure was triggered in large part by growing scientific evidence that the unborn child feels pain. Dr. K. S. Anand, the world’s foremost authority on research into pain perception in fetal and neonatal children testified as an expert witness at another Partial Birth Abortion trial in New York, saying that the fetus feels pain by 20 weeks, possibly even earlier, and that the pain endured by the child during a partial birth abortion would be “prolonged and excruciating.” “Such evidence is very damaging to the abortion industry,” Dr. Johnston noted.

Referring to the study itself, Dr. Johnston pointed out that this study did not involve any new research to assess fetal pain; rather, this study was an interpretation of the results of previous studies. “And a number of those interpretations are just not scientifically grounded,” Dr. Johnston said. The researchers refer to one study of 102 premature newborns which used an electrical recording method (evoked potentials) to record the brain’s responses to stimuli. That study found that signals are present at 29 weeks. “The researchers of this study use that as evidence to support their claim that pain is not felt until 29 weeks-yet they failed to inform the reader that that study of newborns involved only two who were under 29 weeks, but even they evoked a response, although slightly delayed compared to the rest.”

Another weakness involves interpretation of studies which used electroencephalography (EEG) to measure brain activity. The researchers refer to a study which found normal EEG signals appear at 24 weeks which they dismiss in favour of another study which found that EEG signals representing wakefulness appear around 30 weeks and conclude from this that pain is not felt until 30 weeks. “They are assuming wakefulness is needed before pain can be felt,” Dr. Johnston said “Wakefulness is a red herring. Preemies sleep a lot, and their EEG-like ours-is markedly different in the waking or sleeping state. But if I hurt someone while they’re asleep, they will immediately wake with pain. The key is that normal EEG waves were recorded as early as 24 weeks and this finding is discounted by the researchers.”

“Measuring pain response in the fetus is not easy,” Dr. Johnston said. “They can’t self-report, just as babies can’t. But by every measure possible-facial grimace, withdrawal, release of stress hormones, change in pulse rate/breathing/blood pressure-they behave as we would. And as Dr. Anand has said, ‘in the absence of absolute proof we should give the fetus the benefit of the doubt if we are going to call ourselves compassionate and humane physicians.’”
 
**Steve Calvin: Think fetuses can’t feel pain? Try telling them that **

**Steve Calvin August 30, 2005 **

**Last week’s article on fetal pain in the Journal of the American Medical Association proves the desperation of the defenders of unrestricted abortion. The article reviews medical literature and concludes that fetuses are unlikely to feel pain prior to 30 weeks gestation. **

The authors were clearly motivated to write what I view as a medical fantasy to counter proposed federal legislation that would limit abortion in the second trimester. The legislation would require informing women considering abortion that fetuses beyond 20 weeks feel pain and would require anesthesia for the fetus.

**Twenty-five years of delivering babies and a specialization in high-risk obstetrics provide me some experience to refute the claim that fetuses feel no pain until 30 weeks. Many of the tiny babies that I deliver, some as small as 1 pound at 23 weeks, have required surgery during their difficult neonatal battle for life. All of them receive anesthesia. **

Before the 1970s, many newborns, both term and preterm, were operated on without anesthesia in the mistaken belief that they could not feel pain. They certainly couldn’t tell anyone about their discomfort. With more sophisticated monitoring it became clear that blood pressure and pulse rose dramatically during the trauma of surgery. Subsequently, a subspecialty of pediatric anesthesia developed.

**Those who deny fetal pain claim that hormonal and withdrawal responses to invasive procedures are mere reflexes and are no evidence of pain. Recently, I performed an amniocentesis on a patient at 21 weeks gestation because of a possible infection. On ultrasound, the fetus pulled away from the needle when it grazed her arm. It is clear to me that this fetus felt discomfort, and that she would feel horrible pain if she were dismembered in the exercise of an unjust constitutional right. **

**The medical literature duel over abortion has been quite one-sided since most of the medical hierarchy is ardently pro-abortion. There are, however, courageous exceptions. **

**The most important medical study on abortion this year got absolutely no media coverage. A French study in the April 2005 British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology convincingly showed that a previous abortion increased the risk of subsequent delivery at 22 to 27 weeks by 70 percent. Premature birth has heavy personal and societal costs, yet the alarm over the increasing rate of prematurity ignores the abortion connection. **

**The fight over requirements for informed consent prior to abortion continues because abortion defenders refuse to accept any restriction on this manufactured constitutional right to exercise prenatal lethal violence. Their blind orthodoxy requires denial of fetal pain and willful ignorance of the significant long-term consequences of abortion. **

Steve Calvin is a Minneapolis physician.startribune.com/stories/562/5585340.html
 
Ashlyn Blocker can’t feel pain - neither can anyone else with CIPA - does that make it ok to kill them?

CIPA

although i do find this to be a good agruing point with dealing with pro - aborts, as stated by so many - it in no way makes abortion ok
 
Satan wants to turn women into vending machines and is using men to do this. Display the women, insert your goods and if what comes out isn’t good, throw it away and go to the next machine. Satan disgusts me.
 
Satan wants to turn women into vending machines and is using men to do this. Display the women, insert your goods and if what comes out isn’t good, throw it away and go to the next machine.
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Zachary, I’ve never heard it expressed like that but more and more that is the situation. Now, as if women haven’t been exploited enough, researchers are requesting women donate their fresh eggs for embryonic stem cell experimentation. This is the objectification of women Pope John Paul II spoke about.
 
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