Fiance doesn't want to join the church

[kbwall]

The girl I got engaged to is really against the Catholic church. I initially thought it was because of bias and prejudices about things that simply aren’t true. But she finally told me the truth, that she just feels empty when she goes because there’s so much recited prayer. She doesn’t feel like worship is active enough. She believes everybody has their own style of worship, and the Catholic way is too uniformed. And there’s no way things can continue if we go to different churches.

Is there any branch of Catholicism that would still be considered going to Christ’s true church that is a bit more free like what she wants?

 

[robertericleech]

I guess it’s all a matter of perspective. If anything, I feel like sometimes Mass isn’t uniform enough. What church does she attend?

 

[exnihilo]

But she finally told me the truth, that she just feels empty when she goes because there’s so much recited prayer. She doesn’t *feel *like worship is active enough.

I’d consider taking the time to discuss this issue because I think it is a big one for both church and marriage. We dont worship God to make us feel anything. True and proper worship is not that which creates a certain feeling. If it were you’d have to say anyone who doesn’t get the right feeling at a church service has wasted their time. They have not worshipped. If the worship service is rated based on how it makes us feel then the worship service becomes more about us than God. Also, we are obliged to worship God whether we feel like it or not. Worshiping God when we dont feel like it is actually the very test of faith. It is easy to do the right thing when we want to. The real test is when we dont want to.

This ties into marriage because marriage is a decision to make a specific commitment to love someone regardless of our feelings. I see our society as having a very distorted views about the role of feelings. One reason for rampant divorce is marriage is based on feelings. For many as soon as the feeling of love disappears the marriage is gone because its foundation was a feeling. But the heart of marriage is the commitment to love someone no matter what which means specifically when the feelings we call love might have waned.

She believes everybody has their own style of worship, and the Catholic way is too uniformed.

I believe most people have not really thought about worship. I think most people would have a hard time explaining what worship even is. I also dont think most people have spent time thinking about how God wants to be worshiped. The style of worship should be that which is pleasing to God. That being so how do we know what is pleasing to God? I like the Socratic method. Asking questions can help open the mind to new ideas. A lot of what we believe we’ve never really thought about. It might be beneficial to ask your fiance some questions about her beliefs, specifically how she arrived at them. That might open her up to different ideas.

 

[coachkfan1]

Every time I see one of these threads I feel compelled to respond based on my personal experience and the experiences of so many other that I have talked to. So I want you to read the next part very slowly: If you are committed to your Catholic faith, and your fiance has no interest in becoming Catholic, then my advice is to NOT GET MARRIED unless or until that situation changes! As you grow in faith and years your faith will become more important to you, the center of your life, and may very well become a huge source of contention in your marraige. It’s your life and you are free to do with it as you will, but I would strongly urge you to read what I have just written over again and ask the Holy Spirit if this is what you truly ought to be doing.

 

[sedonaman]

Every time I see one of these threads I feel compelled to respond based on my personal experience and the experiences of so many other that I have talked to. So I want you to read the next part very slowly: If you are committed to your Catholic faith, and your fiance has no interest in becoming Catholic, then my advice is to NOT GET MARRIED unless or until that situation changes! As you grow in faith and years your faith will become more important to you, the center of your life, and may very well become a huge source of contention in your marraige. It’s your life and you are free to do with it as you will, but I would strongly urge you to read what I have just written over again and ask the Holy Spirit if this is what you truly ought to be doing.

“If your spouse doesn’t like garlic, get a new spouse!” – The Frugal Gormet

 

[InAllThingsLove]

I actually understand what your fiancee is saying. For me, at least for awhile, attending a Catholic Church could actually be a distressing experience, partly because I was confused about some problems I was having, but I didn’t have the same issue in Non-Denominational Services.

As far active worship goes, that’s got to do with how much you mean it. People who refer to uniform and recited prayer as inactive, really are just reciting. When you say the Our Father, or one of the other prayers at Mass or elsewhere and think about each word, and mean what you’re saying to God, then the worship is just as active, if you were praying “freely”.

I would encourage you to talk with her about this more in depth. What specifically bothers her? What do you mean by she is really against the Catholic Church? (Is it mostly based on worship style, or does it have more to do with other issues.)

You’ll also want to talk about her attitudes toward marriage itself, how does she see the sacrament and her attitudes towards divorce. Are these also very feelings based? Or does she understand marriage as a covenant, and love as a verb, rather than a noun?

I would encourage you to think about if you could attend a service she’s more inclined to, as well as her coming to Mass. This however, could be a problem when there are children, but there are people with strong interfaith marriages. If attending Church together is a priority for you, and not something she feels okay with, then I agree you might have an unpleasant decision on your hands.

As far as other worship styles within the Catholic Church go. I’m not sure. I’ve been to Churches with more contemporary style music which might appeal to her, but I think that whether that’d be enough would have to come down to an examination of her reasons and feelings.

 

[Allegra]

I know you don’t want to hear this, but I would seriously consider the possibility that this relationship is not destined for a happy union.

 

[Corki]

The girl I got engaged to is really against the Catholic church. I initially thought it was because of bias and prejudices about things that simply aren’t true. But she finally told me the truth, that she just feels empty when she goes because there’s so much recited prayer. She doesn’t feel like worship is active enough. She believes everybody has their own style of worship, and the Catholic way is too uniformed. And there’s no way things can continue if we go to different churches.

Is there any branch of Catholicism that would still be considered going to Christ’s true church that is a bit more free like what she wants?

Well, you can certainly go to different parishes and let her experience different liturgical styles. There are also the Eastern Catholic churches but those are also fairly rigid (I mean that in a good way) in terms of structure. You can also see if there are any Charismatic Renewal Masses or Masses at monestaries that you can go to . But, as for “branches”, the Latin Rite is about as freewheeling as any.

But there are some serious problems here.

1. She “finally told me the truth” Does that mean that she was less than honest before you got engaged? Or does it mean that, as a couple, you glossed over your religious differences in the heat of young love. If the latter, we’ve all done something similar. But if the former, that’s a big red flag.
2. If you church shop now, what happens if you move to another area and there aren’t as many options (assuming you have options now)? It would be unwise to join the Church based on enjoyment of a single style of worship.
3. “And there’s no way things can continue if we go to different churches.” Is that what she said or is this your own conclusion? There are many cases of successful mixed marriages. But there are also many cases where a difference caused too much stress and caused the marriage to fail. This is a huge deal when you add children to the mix. That being said, if someone converts, it needs to be for more than just wanting to go to church together.

Sounds like you need to give the whole situation some time. Look around and go talk to a good priest.

 

[Cryptic1]

The girl I got engaged to is really against the Catholic church. I initially thought it was because of bias and prejudices about things that simply aren’t true. But she finally told me the truth, that she just feels empty when she goes because there’s so much recited prayer. She doesn’t feel like worship is active enough. She believes everybody has their own style of worship, and the Catholic way is too uniformed. And there’s no way things can continue if we go to different churches.

Is there any branch of Catholicism that would still be considered going to Christ’s true church that is a bit more free like what she wants?

This might be a good time for the two of you to seriously think about whether you can handle this difference in religious opinion as it will come up repeatedly when you are married. The smallest issues today become even bigger issues when two people’s lives and happiness are at stake.

God says we each have to work out our own salvation on our own, so basically your salvation and her salvation are dependent on the personal choices that each of you makes. You have to consider the fact that, once married, your wife will not be at your side as you attend church and may even end up going to a non Catholic church. If you can handle that, then marriage is a possibility. Love is a powerful force in this world, so you may find yourself having to draw upon your love for her as you both work to resolve the conflicts in your lives.

As important as it is to attend church, it is even more important to have God in your heart. When life becomes overwhelming, as it does, if God is in your heart it’s easier to deal with life’s challenges, knowing that He is there and that you can call upon Him for help anytime, anywhere. That is where true religion begins.

 

[Mumbles140]

My wife was raised in a family that was not too keen on the Catholic Church. Her father was raised Catholic (albeit somewhat loosely) and had given that up by the time he went to college, and her mother was raised very traditional Protestant. However, after they married and had kids, my father-in-law lost any real interest in religion, whereas my mother-in-law was very much a modernist - contemporary services, praise bands, non-denom, etc. Being raised in that household, my wife had some not-so-great ideas about the Catholic Church. She has told me on several occasions that she doesn’t know if she will ever convert, but she isn’t ruling it out. However, she made it clear there is a good chance she never converts. We agreed to raise the kids in the Catholic faith, and she does attend Mass with me rather than going to a church of her own.

Now, looking back on 13 months of marriage, I can already see a change just from living out my faith. When it was brought up once with friends, my wife was the one who defended the faith, and has spoken countless times about the miracles in Lourdes (I’m taking her there in 2013) and how amazing the incorrupt bodies of some Catholic saints are. What really topped the cake was that, before the summer started, my mother-in-law told my wife that she was even thinking about converting to Catholicism. We invited her down for Mass, but with summer travel, we haven’t managed that yet. Still, I clearly see the impact I have made on the lives of a family that was staunchly against the Catholic Church.

My point in all this is to rebut the people saying that this relationship may not work. Let me tell you that it is not easy, but as long as your wife doesn’t interfere with your spiritual life and relationship with God, it is not really any worse off than other marriages. And who knows - by living the example of a good, Catholic spouse and (someday) parent, you might convince your wife to convert.

One piece of advice - never be afraid to hide aspects of your faith from your spouse, especially when she asks questions about it. Even ‘yes or no’ questions about the faith should be given explanations, because understanding is the first step to conversion. What is it that Archbishop Sheen said - something to the likes of “Not many people hate the Church. Many people hate what they think the Church is” (I know that is an awful paraphrase, but I hope the point came across!)

Best of luck and God bless!

 

[SaintPatrick333]

The girl I got engaged to is really against the Catholic church. I initially thought it was because of bias and prejudices about things that simply aren’t true. But she finally told me the truth, that she just feels empty when she goes because there’s so much recited prayer. She doesn’t feel like worship is active enough. She believes everybody has their own style of worship, and the Catholic way is too uniformed. And there’s no way things can continue if we go to different churches.

Is there any branch of Catholicism that would still be considered going to Christ’s true church that is a bit more free like what she wants?

Drop her like a rock my friend. She is no good. If she isn’t willing to come to Christ in the Church He created for her and everyone else, than let her stand ignorant of Christ the rest of her life. Pray for her, and if she’s willing to compromise and learn, then try and teach her and help her understand the importance of Mass. And explain how Mass is not a “worship service” like you find at her protestant churches but is in fact something SO MUCH more. I think the reason she feels “empty” at Mass is because she has no idea what the Mass actually is. If her heart is open to Truth I would ask that you ask her to read The Lambs Supper by Dr. Scott Hahn. He was a former protestant minister and could explain the Mass in a way she could relate too and understand. I think if she was open enough to read that book, she might change her opinion on what she feels about Mass, and might be more open to conversion (it’s hard to resist when Truth is opened before you). I’ll pray for her conversion my friend. But don’t sacrifice on your faith just to make her happy. If you do that, your relationship is doomed to failure anyways. It’d only be a matter of how long you could drag it out. Christ first in everything, and all will be done according to His will. Pray for her and pray unceasingly. If she honestly seeks Christ, He will eventually lead her to His Church like He has with countless others (including my hardheaded self)

 

[bzkoss236]

You may want to see if there are any charismatic Catholic churches near you that she might want to check out. I’m a bit wary of charismatic churches, but it might be her thing. If she thinks that churches have to be fun an vibrant to be “real” worship, then she might like charismatic Catholic churches, which have similar views of gifts of the Holy Spirit as Pentecostals do, and have a more “vibrant” mass.

My fiancée is a non-denominational Christian, and while she doesn’t have any aspirations to join the Catholic Church in terms of beliefs, but she is willing to go to a Catholic Church for Sunday services. I was blessed with an open-minded Christian woman. Ever since we started dating, we’ve looked further into Catholic beliefs together so she can understand it more. Since I’ve already had a “taste” of what Protestant churches teach, I thought she might want to know more about what the Catholic Church teaches, to dispel popular misunderstandings. Since we’ve started looking into the beliefs together, I’ve come more deeply into a relationship with the Church and Christ than I ever have before, and she’s taken to some of the Church’s beliefs that Protestants disagree with. There are still some beliefs that she feels she cannot reconcile with (Papal infallibility, the immaculateness of Mary, and Mary’s assumption), but I feel it mostly has to do with doubt. She is musically minded, and much prefers hymns to the pop-culture style Christian music that’s out there.

If you truly love each other, then this will work out somehow, through prayer. The answer may not be what you’d expect or really want, but some men have allowed women who didn’t love them to marry someone else because of how much they (the men) loved them (the women).

I’ll be sure to pray for you.

 

[ChrisB103]

I’d consider taking the time to discuss this issue because I think it is a big one for both church and marriage. We dont worship God to make us feel anything. True and proper worship is not that which creates a certain feeling. If it were you’d have to say anyone who doesn’t get the right feeling at a church service has wasted their time. They have not worshipped. If the worship service is rated based on how it makes us feel then the worship service becomes more about us than God. Also, we are obliged to worship God whether we feel like it or not. Worshiping God when we dont feel like it is actually the very test of faith. It is easy to do the right thing when we want to. The real test is when we dont want to.

This ties into marriage because marriage is a decision to make a specific commitment to love someone regardless of our feelings. I see our society as having a very distorted views about the role of feelings. One reason for rampant divorce is marriage is based on feelings. For many as soon as the feeling of love disappears the marriage is gone because its foundation was a feeling. But the heart of marriage is the commitment to love someone no matter what which means specifically when the feelings we call love might have waned.

I believe most people have not really thought about worship. I think most people would have a hard time explaining what worship even is. I also dont think most people have spent time thinking about how God wants to be worshiped. The style of worship should be that which is pleasing to God. That being so how do we know what is pleasing to God? I like the Socratic method. Asking questions can help open the mind to new ideas. A lot of what we believe we’ve never really thought about. It might be beneficial to ask your fiance some questions about her beliefs, specifically how she arrived at them. That might open her up to different ideas.

Excellent, thoughtful post, exnihilo.

 

[JHow]

…she just feels empty when she goes because there’s so much recited prayer. She doesn’t feel like worship is active enough…

We recite: some responses, the creed, the our father, we mumble through the psalm and some hymns. We sit, stand, and kneel at various points

It doesn’t seem like a lot to me. Maybe if you “trained” her a bit on what is done when, and why, she wouldn’t feel out of place. Also, if she wants to worship more actively, tell her to please belt it for all she’s worth on the hymns, because people like me are mumbling.

Since the creed is probably the longest bit a non-catholic is not accustomed to, why don’t you give her a copy of Dorothy L Sayers “Creed or Chaos”. Once I had a better sense of what the creed was it didn’t seem like “reciting” anymore.

 

[twopekinguys]

Every time I see one of these threads I feel compelled to respond based on my personal experience and the experiences of so many other that I have talked to. So I want you to read the next part very slowly: If you are committed to your Catholic faith, and your fiance has no interest in becoming Catholic, then my advice is to NOT GET MARRIED unless or until that situation changes! As you grow in faith and years your faith will become more important to you, the center of your life, and may very well become a huge source of contention in your marraige. It’s your life and you are free to do with it as you will, but I would strongly urge you to read what I have just written over again and ask the Holy Spirit if this is what you truly ought to be doing.

See, now this is where we will have to disagree.

My father was a practicing Catholic, and my mother a practicing Presbyterian. In fact, my grandfather was a Presbyterian minister.

They were married 52 years when my father died, and they raised 3 boys (all practicing Catholics).

It can, and does work.

 

[twopekinguys]

Drop her like a rock my friend. She is no good. If she isn’t willing to come to Christ in the Church He created for her and everyone else, than let her stand ignorant of Christ the rest of her life. Pray for her, and if she’s willing to compromise and learn, then try and teach her and help her understand the importance of Mass. And explain how Mass is not a “worship service” like you find at her protestant churches but is in fact something SO MUCH more. I think the reason she feels “empty” at Mass is because she has no idea what the Mass actually is. If her heart is open to Truth I would ask that you ask her to read The Lambs Supper by Dr. Scott Hahn. He was a former protestant minister and could explain the Mass in a way she could relate too and understand. I think if she was open enough to read that book, she might change her opinion on what she feels about Mass, and might be more open to conversion (it’s hard to resist when Truth is opened before you). I’ll pray for her conversion my friend. But don’t sacrifice on your faith just to make her happy. If you do that, your relationship is doomed to failure anyways. It’d only be a matter of how long you could drag it out. Christ first in everything, and all will be done according to His will. Pray for her and pray unceasingly. If she honestly seeks Christ, He will eventually lead her to His Church like He has with countless others (including my hardheaded self)

My father was a practicing Catholic, and my mother a practicing Presbyterian. In fact, my grandfather was a Presbyterian minister.

They were married 52 years when my father died, and they raised 3 boys (all practicing Catholics).

It can, and does work.

Also, I think your comment: “Drop her like a rock my friend. She is no good. If she isn’t willing to come to Christ in the Church He created for her and everyone else, than let her stand ignorant of Christ the rest of her life.” is extremely offensive, and uncalled for. You don’t know this woman.

 

[Cider]

“If your spouse doesn’t like garlic, get a new spouse!” – The Frugal Gormet

They aren’t married, so the point is moot.

 

[DavidtheGnome]

Is your fiance willing to follow church teachings (raise children in the faith, NFP, etc)? I don’t think you mentioned what denomination your fiance is most closely affialiated with. Some have little social doctrine beyond a statement of belief and others have teachings that are subject to popular vote (as in the United Methodist Church where I was raised).

St. Paul cautions us not to be unequally yoked. It was not until after dating a non-christian I came to appreciate the wisdom of this teaching…I do believe that love is not limited by denominations or even religion but we are of course required to love god and obey him before all others.

 

[SteveLy]

This is a sensitive but important topic. The reason Paul cautions against being unequally yoked, and in decades past this would have been considered anyone not of your own denomination, is that our faith practice is reflective of our world view. So, as others have mentioned, if you are both Christians just of differing worship styles it is something to be brought up and discussed. Meeting with a Christian counselor to help walk you through would be helpful.

If she is not a practicing Christian, and doesn’t like the RCC, it is a more serious item worthy of significant exploration. The reason is it will affect almost every area of your marriage. First, how holidays are celebrated; not only whose family but what times as church takes precedence or not, how you interact with her family will all be affected by this.

Secondly, your topics of conversation, discussion of current events and even friendships will revolve around those who think like you. If you have differing religious beliefs it is more difficult in those relationships. Not to mention the topic of giving to the church.

Thirdly, if children come along how you raise them, what they are allowed to do, who they are allowed to hang out with or date, when they are allowed out and what they wear when they go out will all revolve around your worldview…which is based on your faith belief system. If you are not on the same sheet of music it will put additional stress on your relationship.

I know this is a lot, but they are all things that need to be thought about and discussed prior to getting married, because they will all be experienced during marriage. It is also a great reason to do pre-marriage counseling as a couple alone with a counselor for at least 6 sessions to discuss this topic and others.

Finally, they way someone else worships is not a reason to not worship. Meaning, if others at Mass, and everyone has seen them, are just punching their ticket and repeating a memorized prayer with no focus and intention, it is no excuse for any given person to do the same. We are at church to enter into the household of God and connect with andworship Him. Someone else’s neglect in that area is no excuse for your own.

Good Luck!

 

[Miriam1947]

I’d consider taking the time to discuss this issue because I think it is a big one for both church and marriage. We dont worship God to make us feel anything. True and proper worship is not that which creates a certain feeling. If it were you’d have to say anyone who doesn’t get the right feeling at a church service has wasted their time. They have not worshipped. If the worship service is rated based on how it makes us feel then the worship service becomes more about us than God. Also, we are obliged to worship God whether we feel like it or not. Worshiping God when we dont feel like it is actually the very test of faith. It is easy to do the right thing when we want to. The real test is when we dont want to.

This ties into marriage because marriage is a decision to make a specific commitment to love someone regardless of our feelings. I see our society as having a very distorted views about the role of feelings. One reason for rampant divorce is marriage is based on feelings. For many as soon as the feeling of love disappears the marriage is gone because its foundation was a feeling. But the heart of marriage is the commitment to love someone no matter what which means specifically when the feelings we call love might have waned.

I believe most people have not really thought about worship. I think most people would have a hard time explaining what worship even is. I also dont think most people have spent time thinking about how God wants to be worshiped. The style of worship should be that which is pleasing to God. That being so how do we know what is pleasing to God? I like the Socratic method. Asking questions can help open the mind to new ideas. A lot of what we believe we’ve never really thought about. It might be beneficial to ask your fiance some questions about her beliefs, specifically how she arrived at them. That might open her up to different ideas.

Are you sure you’re not Catholic? Great post.