Fiance's parents are upset

[haedron]

I would say first get a lawyer.

Second you might want to take a close look at how much say the parents want to have about how he raises his child. They may expect the same when it comes time for you two to start having children. Setting boundaries may be a discussion for you to have NOW with the priest in pre-Cana.

I think this is an excellent point that got a little lost in the thread. The dynamic of your potential future step-daughter may be challenging, but it’s also not that uncommon in the world today. As has been said, there needs to be a legal arrangement in place - the sooner the better.

In my opinion, your fiance needs to start handling the issues with his daughter without deferring to his parents. Further, I would say that these decisions need to be made with (name removed by moderator)ut and discussion from you (after all, by asking you to marry him he is asking you to accept this part of his past and it will have a lifelong impact on you). It’s fine to solicit advice from his parents, but if he is deferring to what they want and not consulting with you then I would be extremely concerned about boundaries and limits with your in-laws once you and your fiance are married and have children of your own.

 

[EasterJoy]

In this instance, I don’t care what the Church requires. He made that child with that particular girl. He found her suitable to have intercourse with. So if she’s not suitable to marry, that’s on him, isn’t it. It’s too late to say, “Oh, but I wouldn’t have, if I’d only known!” You did, and time to be a father and yes, sacrifice for your child. Having to come and go from her father’s new home and new children (of course they will have children) really SUCKS, especially when everyone is going to be telling her, “Aren’t you so LUCKY to have your new Mommy??”

Yeah, sure, it’s great to have a bunch of step-siblings who get to stay with Daddy full-time while you only see him every other week. Just great.

Do you really think that the best thing for the child is that the child’s father either go for a shotgun marriage against his will (because putting a kid through an invalid attempt at marriage never SUCKS) or else remain celibate until he’s 38? Or what age would be suitable? Maybe he should just stay celibate until the child’s mother dies, because this will keep his child’s life from having anything about it that “SUCKS”? Oh, of course, because having your parents martyr themselves for you when no one else required it of them always works out so well. What child could possibly object to that?

That view is not only simplistic, it is draconian, and needlessly so. It is not as if there aren’t kids who don’t feel very lucky to have their stepparents, and very lucky, indeed.

 

[Irishmom2]

This is what I would like to do but aren’t I out of line here? I am engaged to him but isn’t he still bound to obey his parents since he is living with them? I feel that I can only do this once we get married and are living together. I am not sure why his parents are giving in to being manipulated by her instead of doing this but I feel out of line to question it at the moment. Should I maybe speak with a lawyer about the situation but not actually officially enforce anything?

Whoa! You would be out of line if you were to talk to a lawyer. Your fiance is the one that needs to get the lawyer. Surest way to get his ex-girlfriend fired up against him is for **you **to be doing anything close to getting a lawyer.

I also have a bit of a problem with how much “power” your fiance’s parents have in this whole thing. Granted, he lives in their home, but perhaps that is the bigger picture. It sounds like he needs to mature a bit. He should start by being able to support himself and live on his own and have a room in his place to see his daughter. Then his parents will not have anything to say or be able to be manipulated by the ex.

You really should consider your fiance having all his legal ducks in a row before you are married. Then you and he will not be blamed for anything later from the ex.

 

[TriciaF]

My thoughts on this:

The suggestion that the OP breaks off her engagement isn’t reasonable. There are innumerable people dealing with difficult exes.
The child’s mother appears to be acting in a manipulative and dog-in-the-mangerish way which occurs sometimes with exes. Such behavior shouldn’t be encouraged and affirmed by allowing her to get away with such behavior. The suggestion that the child’s father gets legal advice is the wise one. The child’s mother has already learned that her immature attempts to control the family have been working well. That may be hard to unlearn now that it is established but it should be unlearned.

The grandparents may be upset but theirs is a secondary consideration.
The primary need is to resolve fair arrangements between the child’s mother and father.
There is unfair manipulation on the part of the grandparents in wishing to control their adult son’s life and decisions. The OP would be wise to withdraw from the relationship only if her fiance is not strong enough to seek legal advice and consolidate his position in a legal way, respecting also his fiancee’s rights.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Hi everyone,

I hope that you can give me advice on my situation. I just recently became engaged to my boyfriend. We have been dating for about a year and a half and we are both 23. We also both go to Church regularly and pray together.

When my fiance was in highschool he got his girlfriend at the time pregnant. They broke up a few months after the baby was born but he is still very involved with his child’s life. His parents have a room in their house when his little girl comes over and she comes over every other weekend. The issue that we are having is that his ex-girlfriend and the mother of the child always threatens him and his family that she is going to take away his child and not let them see her again. I am not quite sure why she does this. His ex used to let the child come over every weekend to his parents house but since me and him have started dating, she cut it down to once every 2 weeks. My fiance’s mother was quite upset/angry when she found out that we were engaged because she thinks that his ex-girlfriend will take away his child from him and not let her come over anymore. His mother insisted that he doesn’t tell his friends about our engagement because she thinks that one of his friends might tell his ex-girlfriend and that things will go downhilll from there regarding his child.

I am accepting of his situation. I don’t mind that he has a child and I am willing to have her over at our house as many times as he wants in the future. I will love and take care of his child like she is one of my own when she is around. I do not want him to have a friendship with his ex-girlfriend, however. I do not mind the casual greeting as he is picking/dropping his child back to her house and discussions about the child. He also does not want to have a friendship with his ex-girlfriend and the only reason he is still keeping in contact is obviously because of his child. His family thinks differently, however. They think that he should become friends with his ex-girlfriend and sometimes even go out with her and their child. In one situation, his child needed glasses and his parents wanted him to go with his ex-girlfriend and his child and pick out the glasses with them. His parents don’t necessarily want him to date her again but to maintain a good friendship so that she will let them all see the child more. I think that while he is still living with his family, he should listen to them but I know and he knows that once we get married things will be different regarding the situation with his child. He will only talk with his ex-girlfriend when he going to pick/drop her off but there won’t be any way that she will be able to manipulate us like she does his family. She is always ordering his parents around and they are always complying in fear that she will not let my fiance or his family see the child anymore.

I was wondering if you guys could give me some sort of advice on how to deal with this. It is hard when there doesn’t see to be any support of our engagement from his family. I understand their concern but my fiance should be allowed to continue with his life and get married and have a family even though he messed up when he was in highschool.

He needs to go get a lawyer and have his paternal rights spelled out and affirmed. She maybe angry he’s moved on and thinks she can still hold on to him by using the child. Don’t let her. He may have to pay child support but he should be anyway.

 

[Trackee]

First of all, let me say that unless your fiance or his parents have done something terribly wrong to jeopardize his child’s safety and well-being, his ex can threaten all she wants - she doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Parents cannot just decide to never allow the non-custodial parent to see their child again. It simply doesn’t work that way. The courts do not allow that to happen. Several states have laws pertaining to grandparent rights and visitation, so your fiance’s parents may want to look into that just so that IF the mother decides to keep threatening, they can threaten to sue her for grandparent rights to that child. The same goes for your fiance - if there is a custody agreement already in place, this woman can not prevent him from seeing their child, and if there isn’t an agreement in place (legally, not just by both parties verbally agreeing without having any court-ordered visitation), your fiance needs to contact the local court or child support office (he IS paying child support, right? I sure hope so because there is no reason he shouldn’t be, regardless of his relationship with his ex) and get a custody/visitation agreement set up. (I went all through this with my ex and our child.)

Second, maybe his parents would be more supportive of your engagement if they realized they didn’t have to be backed into a corner by your fiance’s ex. He has chosen who he wants to go through his life with now, and his parents need to understand and support that. My prayers are with you!

He does pay child support but informally since there has been nothing legally enforced. He usually pays whatever his ex requests as long as it is reasonable and there are receipts provided for things that the she has bought for the child that needs to be reimbursed. I like the idea of getting a custody agreement in place so there won’t be any more threatening/manipulation on the ex-girlfriend’s part.

My main concern is that his parents especially his mother does not support the engagement because she thinks that the ex-girlfriend will get upset about it and “take away” his child from him and his family. I almost feel guilty that I’m the cause of this because she makes it seem like she is telling him to either pick me or his child. Personally I think that one’s vocation is a highly important matter in ones life and marriage isn’t something that should just be ignored because it is a calling to a life that God calls you to. What (name removed by moderator)ut do you have? I don’t see why both me and his child can be a part of his life instead of a separation where he has to pick either me or his child. His child is only 4 years old at the moment so I’m not sure whether she will understand what is happening at the moment.

 

[lerapt78]

I was the first on this thread to make the suggestion of contacting a lawyer, and while I despise one parent using his/her children as a manipulative tool against the other, and I *do *believe in using the courts if necessary to secure parental rights…I think that in giving my suggestion I may have jumped the gun without giving too much consideration to the entire situation. After more thought, I have to acknowledge that there is some sense in what TheRealJuliane is saying, even if I remain uncertain as to her conclusive advice.

(emphasis mine)

My advice, and you won’t like it…

Break off the engagement and let this man raise his daughter. He really shouldn’t be bringing anyone else into this highly unstable situation and I don’t care if his ex GF is nuts or not, she’s the mother of his daughter and ALWAYS will be. He has a responsibility to his daughter first, anyone else a distant last place.

He made this child with his ex-GF. He needs to deal with her, and raise his daughter as best he can. I think his parents are looking out for the best interests of their grandchild and trying to remind him that he already has responsibilities.

He made that child with that particular girl. He found her suitable to have intercourse with. So if she’s not suitable to marry, that’s on him, isn’t it. It’s too late to say, “Oh, but I wouldn’t have, if I’d only known!”

As to the father of the child: We don’t know what he was like in high school, and we don’t know what he is like now - whether he has matured, is really trying to do right by his child, etc. We *do *know however that he never married the mother of his child, and in fact agreed to terminate the relationship a mere three months after the birth. Yes, times have changed, but back in the day it would have been expected for a man to assume responsibility and form a stable family (marriage) if a pregnancy resulted from engaging in sexual intimacy. Did he ever propose to the mother, and was rejected by her? Or did he never make the attempt at all? Maybe the ex-girlfriend is crazy or a less-than gracious person, who knows…but Juliane made a reasonable point - he didn’t really mind what her mental state was at the time he was having sex with her, did he? Perhaps it would have been in the best interest of the child he helped to create to have sacrificed his temporary happiness in order to do the honorable thing. Maybe this concept still holds true today?

As to the grandparents: While the ultimate authority does not lie with them, I’ve considered this a bit more from their probable viewpoint, and I can’t fairly say that this is none of their business and that they should butt out. In their defense, let’s consider this - who do we think stepped in to help when this child was born? Isn’t it likely that it was the *grandparents *(either the paternal or maternal ones) who were providing the roof over the child’s head and assuming a great part of the financial burden themselves? Remember, these parents were 17 year-old high school children at the time the child was conceived, and it is highly unlikely they survived all on their own. It is actually quite often that irresponsible teenagers (and sometimes young adults as well) create children and then leave much of the responsibility of actually *caring *for those children to the grandparents, whether it is in the form of babysitting, feeding and clothing or providing other financial support in terms of rent, food, and/or medical bills. I agree that these grandparents (the actual responsible ones) probably only want what’s best for the child, and that it is not just about control or dislike of the OP. What’s best for children is usually a stable, 2-parent home consisting of the biological mother and father (assuming of course, that the biological parents are not abusive or too incompetent to provide adequate care.)

As to the mother of the child: It is possible that she is a malicious and vindicative person, we don’t know. It is *also *possible however, that she is simply afraid of raising a child alone and is using this ploy as an attempt to regain some control over a situation that has left the greater burden of care upon her shoulders. I have to admit, if I were a young and single mother who (and let’s face it, she probably doesn’t have the best education under her belt and therefore not the best career and income opportunities), I would probably be very worried that a new fiancee would be a threat to the security of my offspring. I’m not saying that threats to withhold the child are the right way to go about it, but I’m just making the point that she is young and maybe in a very unstable position and is acting out of fear.

OP, I don’t mean to cast aspersions upon your fiance, and I’m not going to suggest that you break up with him. You are both young though, and even though you love him I do want you to consider whether he really is going to be a responsible mate for you. I don’t really know what is the best option in light of not knowing all of the details, except that perhaps what *everyone *in this situation should do is put aside their own self-interests and allow for the best decision to be made for the child.

 

[lerapt78]

OP, I didn’t see your last post before I submitted mine and want to add something:

I don’t think you need to feel guilty because you did not create the dilemma. I also understand that you’re caught in the middle of a less-than-perfect situation. Again, I find myself unable to give solid advice because I don’t feel comfortable taking sides against the mother here. I can only advise that you make the best decisions for yourself, while at the same time being considerate of everyone involved.

 

[hannajomar]

Trackee, I highly recommend for your fiance to take care of this before you two get married. It’s wise to enter marriage in as much of a stable situation as possible. This must be taken care of legally, and your fiance is the only one who can do that - not you, and not his parents. He needs a legal order for custody/visitation, as well as for child support. He needs to make the transition from child to adult. I don’t mean that disrespectfully. You two are in your lower 20’s and in our culture, that is often when this often painful transition takes place. If he is unable/unwilling to truly take care of this situation, my fear for your marriage is that he is not quite mature enough yet to be ready for marriage. I hope the best for all involved. I hope you come back and give us updates.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

OP, I didn’t see your last post before I submitted mine and want to add something:

I don’t think you need to feel guilty because you did not create the dilemma. I also understand that you’re caught in the middle of a less-than-perfect situation. Again, I find myself unable to give solid advice because I don’t feel comfortable taking sides against the mother here. I can only advise that you make the best decisions for yourself, while at the same time being considerate of everyone involved.

Thank you for your well-reasoned post above. You really spelled out what I was reducing down to a sound byte or two. We don’t know enough about the OP’s fiance’ or the situation with his parents, his ex-girlfriend and the mother of his child, or the background of the whole thing.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

My main concern is that his parents especially his mother does not support the engagement because she thinks that the ex-girlfriend will get upset about it and “take away” his child from him and his family. I almost feel guilty that I’m the cause of this because she makes it seem like she is telling him to either pick me or his child.

This is a problem. I had a few people not support my engagement and when that happens you have to be able to look those people in the eye and say calmly but firmly "I am sorry you feel that way but this is a very special time for me and if you can’t be happy about that then I have to take a step back from you.

Your fiance can and should get this worked out through the courts. It may be difficult and expensive, but it needs to happen for everyone’s sake, including the child’s. But his parents cannot manipulate you guys out of fear of being manipulated by his ex. She is the ex, she does not get to run his life. And as for his parents, if he’s mature enough to get married then he needs to be mature enough to say “Ok, well Jane and I are getting married. I am not going to put my life on hold because of Jill’s manipulation and I won’t allow you to guilt me in to doing so. I am going to see an attorney to make sure that my parental rights are protected and that I am able to fulfill my responsibilities as a father. If this is a problem for you I’m sorry that you’re upset, but this is what is best for me and my family.”

 

[lerapt78]

Thank you for your well-reasoned post above. You really spelled out what I was reducing down to a sound byte or two. We don’t know enough about the OP’s fiance’ or the situation with his parents, his ex-girlfriend and the mother of his child, or the background of the whole thing.

 

[SamH]

The only thing I suggest is going to court/mediation and getting a custody/visitation agreement drafted up. If she refuses to do this she can be legally compelled. Do it now. There is no reason that anyone should fear that she won’t “let” him see his own child. And even if she had been reasonable and they had been in agreement from day one, now that he’s marrying someone else an official custody agreement is the only responsible thing to do.

I agree with this.

But most likely you will find out there has been no “formal” agreement because the father has not been paying child support - a large part of any formal child custody ruling. He will also find himself liable for back child support starting when the child was born.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I agree with this.

But most likely you will find out there has been no “formal” agreement because the father has not been paying child support - a large part of any formal child custody ruling. He will also find himself liable for back child support starting when the child was born.

That’s where things get messy. I hope he can document that he has been supporting his child and what percent of her time is spent living with him. Both of those things could knock a lot of money off of that bill.

I know we don’t have a lot of information about the ex, but honestly anyone who makes their child’s father and grandparents fear not being “allowed” to see the child already has one huge strike against them.

 

[Lucky7]

Thank you for your well-reasoned post above. You really spelled out what I was reducing down to a sound byte or two. We don’t know enough about the OP’s fiance’ or the situation with his parents, his ex-girlfriend and the mother of his child, or the background of the whole thing.

Despite not knowing enough, you’re the one who advisd the OP to break off the engagement.

Color me

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

~I haven’t read all the replies. Apologies in advance for any repeated information.~

OP, my family includes daughters from my husband’s previous marriage. Choosing to marry someone with children carries with it some unique considerations. From my experience as a stepparent, here are some things I think you and your fiancé should be doing:

First, your fiancé needs to retain a family law attorney so that his child’s best interests are represented vis-à-vis custody and child support. He and bio mom must have enforceable child support and custodial agreements on file with the courts. Bio mom cannot make unilateral decisions about custody and visitation, and she’s out of line if she threatens to interfere with visitation for any reason without a court order allowing her to do so. The attorney representing your husband can take steps to ensure this is explained to her.

If possible and if you are in the US, he should retain an attorney who’s a member of the National Academy of Matrimonial Attorneys. A Google search will bring up their website, which will allow your fiancé to find an attorney in your area if there are any.

Next, you (not your fiance, but you) need to consult with a separate attorney and get information about what the laws are in your state regarding child support determination. (Again, this is only if you’re in the US.) In some states, household income is used to determine child support. In others, only the bio parents’ income is used. If you marry this man, you must know what your legal responsibilities in this area are so you’re not caught out in a year or two or ten.

Third, your fiancé needs to act now to establish firm boundaries with his parents over their involvement in all of this. He’s a father, and he needs to make decisions like the adult he is and stop the mindset that he’s obligated to do what his mom and dad say. Like I said before, bio mom can only withold the child under very, very limited circumstances and only within parameters laid out by a family court mediator or judge, and the grandparents need to understand this. Regardless, if your fiance doesn’t get a reign in on his parents before you’re married, you will find yourself “married” to this man and his parents, which isn’t a recipe for marital success.

Frankly, a lot of the problems you’re experiencing and the anxiety that’s coming through in your posts would be assuaged greatly if fiance retains an attorney.

Finally, You need to accept the fact that, as a step parent, you’re not going to have a say in many of the parenting decisions your fiancé and bio mom make regarding this child. Yes, you can advise your husband, and you certainly have an obligation to yourself, your marriage, and the child to ensure that your household has rules and boundaries that are enforced; however, many of the big life decisions (medical and mental health care, residency, education, etc.) are going to be for your fiancé and bio mom to make. Believe me, I know this is really hard for some step parents to accept, especially if the step parent is on the hook financially for some of this stuff, and I know it was a painful realization for me. But in my experience the best bio-step parent relationships are ones in which the step-parent(s) understand this and act accordingly.

Luna

 

[Allegra]

In this instance, I don’t care what the Church requires. He made that child with that particular girl. He found her suitable to have intercourse with. So if she’s not suitable to marry, that’s on him, isn’t it. It’s too late to say, “Oh, but I wouldn’t have, if I’d only known!” You did, and time to be a father and yes, sacrifice for your child. Having to come and go from her father’s new home and new children (of course they will have children) really SUCKS, especially when everyone is going to be telling her, “Aren’t you so LUCKY to have your new Mommy??”

Yeah, sure, it’s great to have a bunch of step-siblings who get to stay with Daddy full-time while you only see him every other week. Just great.

This post is nonsense. We are talking about a little girl who has never experienced a complete family. She isn’t even mourning the family that was lost. She is mourning what should have been but never was. What would it mean to her if her parents were able to show her examples of a true marriage? What would it mean for her to see her father loving and respecting his wife? What would it mean for her to see a man loving and respecting her mother as his wife? The OP hasn’t stated that she has children. Any children resulting from her marriage would be her step-daughter’s own flesh and blood BROTHERS and SISTERS. NOT step-siblings. I hope that was an accidental slip on your part. I can’t begin to tell you how offended I would be if I thought that you were contending that siblings by one parent aren’t really siblings. Furthermore, no one in their right mind would call the step-mother of a child who’s birth mother was still living a “new mommy”. I’m sorry that you’ve had bad experiences with step-parents, but I am infinately thankful that God brought my step-parents into my life. They have helped my parents to become better people and I am a better person for it. I’ve seen many students in my career who should thank God everyday for their step-parents. Generally, when I’ve seen difficulty with mixed families, it’s as much the selfish attitude of the parents that are causing the problem, not the step- parents.

 

[SamH]

Generally, when I’ve seen difficulty with mixed families, it’s as much the selfish attitude of the parents that are causing the problem, not the step- parents.

Try reading the posts next time.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

This post is nonsense. We are talking about a little girl who has never experienced a complete family. She isn’t even mourning the family that was lost. She is mourning what should have been but never was. What would it mean to her if her parents were able to show her examples of a true marriage? What would it mean for her to see her father loving and respecting his wife? What would it mean for her to see a man loving and respecting her mother as his wife? The OP hasn’t stated that she has children. Any children resulting from her marriage would be her step-daughter’s own flesh and blood BROTHERS and SISTERS. NOT step-siblings. I hope that was an accidental slip on your part. I can’t begin to tell you how offended I would be if I thought that you were contending that siblings by one parent aren’t really siblings. Furthermore, no one in their right mind would call the step-mother of a child who’s birth mother was still living a “new mommy”. I’m sorry that you’ve had bad experiences with step-parents, but I am infinately thankful that God brought my step-parents into my life. They have helped my parents to become better people and I am a better person for it. I’ve seen many students in my career who should thank God everyday for their step-parents. Generally, when I’ve seen difficulty with mixed families, it’s as much the selfish attitude of the parents that are causing the problem, not the step- parents.

 

[Allegra]

Try reading the posts next time.

What are you talking about? I’ve read all the post with reasonable care. Maybe you could be more clear as to what you are complaining to me about? What is it you believe I’ve missed?