Fifty Years of the Catholic Charismatic Movement: 1967-2017

  • Thread starter Thread starter EvangelistVictor
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Convert here, the last 2 decades of my protestant life were deep in the Charismatic world. No fear, only pragmatism.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Convert here, the last 2 decades of my protestant life were deep in the Charismatic world. No fear, only pragmatism
Click to expand...
My cradle-Catholic dad feared it. I told him my friends parents had a prayer meeting and where speaking in tongues back in the 90’s. He said, thats of the devil. I said, how can that be if they go to the same Catholic Church we go to. lol
 
Consider two men I knew, they were fellow leaders of a prayer group.
George had a highly structured religious life, bordering on rigid. He benefited from the renewal.
Don was very independent of church authority and tradition. He was already overemphasizing personal experience. The renewal encouraged this trend to the point he joined a Pentecostal house church. The renewal hurt him.

We had hundreds of people coming to our prayer meetings. There were countless teachings about spiritual gifts, healing, other charismatic topics. We never provided much basic Catholic teaching at all, even though most people got little of that in religious education or current preaching.
On the other hand, a minority of the people we attracted are now very active in prolife, adoration, inner city ministry, etc. But very few go to prayer meetings. So overall the fruit is positive.
 
EvangelistVictor said:
I pray all Catholics world wide experience this wonderful outpouring and Baptism of Christ Holy Spirit that literally fills your whole body
Click to expand...
All Catholics have experienced Baptism. Period. Whatever you are referring to, cannot be Baptism.
 
Acts 1:8

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
Yes the Popes and Vatican and Vatican’s Doctrinal commission state: the Holy Spirit is given at Baptism and confirmation, and the Vatican approved catholic charismatic renewal is about focusing on biblically living one’s life with the Holy Spirit we have already received at Baptism and Confirmation. It is called a renewal because it is similar to renewing one’s baptismal promises at Easter. At the first Catholic Charismatic Renewal retreat 50 years ago, the participants renewed their Baptismal vows made at confirmation. Saint Louis de Monfort recommended people to renew their Baptismal Vows daily. ☺️
Furthermore; the Popes/ Vatican/ Vatican’s Doctrinal Commission have said the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is simply the catholic church (along with being committed to the Magisterium, catechism, mass, confession, sacraments, prayer, rosary, devotion to Our Lady the spouse of the Holy Spirit) renewing it’s devotion to the Holy Spirit (who is the same today as on Pentecost).

The book EvangelistVictor recommended was written by the Vatican’s Doctrinal Commission into the Vatican Approved Catholic Charismatic Renewal, and explains the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, as well as the Popes/ Vatican’s/ Vatican’s Doctrinal Commission’s Approval of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.
 
Last edited:
To say this is “Vatican approved”, keep in mind this means approval of this as an option for many. Renewal is not an option, it is for everyone. But while some are led to renewal of their Confirmation promises, etc, through this Renewal, others are led by other approved, Catholic means.

I know some of the charismatics got involved in Medjugorje.

I wonder sometimes if there might be also an overlap with Traditional Latin Mass, or other aspects of Traditionalism. This may strike you as unlikely. But keep in mind the Charismatics, and Latin Mass communities, both put strong emphasis on the supernatural.
Both would reject the rampant tendency to make religion a branch of Sociology. (“Is EVERYBODY feeling equal, and fulfilled here?”)
Both would reject the Historical Critical method of biblical interpretation. They both would say the Word of God is powerful, and is what you read, in the bible. They both would believe in supernatural healing. You may find both types sitting in the Adoration Chapel.

Just saying, you have to look beyond the externals to see commonalities.
 
Last edited:
I know nothing of the book, nor do I see it as relevant. It’s title could imply many things. But you specifically stated that you wanted all Catholics to experience something called “Baptism in Christ Holy Spirit”. I do not know what that is, but since you want it for Catholics, you must know that Catholics have already been baptized, itmust be something else. To refer to it as baptism, at the very least downplays the significance of our actual baptism. At the worst, it us heretical.

We have all been baptized, that is an amazing event. It made us Children of God.
 
Last edited:
Tafan2

Check out the Vatican doctrinal Commission links provided,

(That book you refer to was written by the Vatican’s Doctrinal Commission into the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.)

The Popes and Vatican and The Vatican’s Doctrinal Commission, have APPROVED the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

Please read the links so that you can understand that the Popes/ Vatican/ Vatican’s Doctrinal Commission teach that the Catholic Charismatic term ‘Renewal of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit,’ means the same thing as Renewal of One’s Baptismal Promises (made at Baptism and Confirmation). Saint Louis de Monfort recommended everyone to renew their Baptismal Promises daily. There is nothing heretical about renewing one’s commitment to God through one’s baptismal promises. Pope John Paul II renewed his baptismal promises everyday (through a prayer written by Saint Louis de Monfort).

You are calling something heresy that the Popes/ Vatican/ Vatican’s Doctrinal Commission have approved.

Please read the links provided so you can understand catholic teaching on the term: ‘renewing’. Married people often ‘renew’ their vows, at Easter each year we ‘renew’ our Baptismal vows, ‘renewing’ our Baptismal and Confirmation vows (is something that St Louis de Monfort recommended to be done daily, and is something Saint Pope John Paul II did daily).
 
Last edited:
This is so similar to my family’s Pentecostal church. And they despise Catholicism. I wouldn’t enjoy the charismatic movement just because it would bring back uncomfortable memories.
 
The term used by the OP was not Renewal of Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That’s what I have taken exception too.
I have no problem with renewing our baptismal promises. You correctly state that us common at Easter.
 
Oh, and I also acknowledge the Church has approved the Cgarasmatic Renewal Movement. The Church rightly recognizes many different types of spirituality to aid our path to holiness, since the Church knows we are not all the same.
 
John the Baptist said in scripture: ‘I baptize you with water. But after me is coming someone greater, who will BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.’ ☺️
Yes we received that Holy Spirit at baptism and confirmation.

But Jesus also told us in scripture:
‘How much more will God the Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask.’
Saint Paul says in scripture: ‘Seek the higher gifts of the Holy Spirit.’

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal: uses the term ‘renewal of Baptism in the Spirit,’ to describe Catholics renewing their confirmation/ baptismal promises, renewing therefore their commitment to the Holy Spirit, and renewing our relationship with the Holy Spirit (which the Church says we are Baptized with at Baptism and confirmation, and which catholics re-commit ourselves to in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal).

‘Renewal of Baptism in the Holy Spirit’ is just a worded phrase, about re-dedicating oneself to the Holy Spirit (who we received at Baptism, and renewing our confirmation/ baptism promises).

The Vatican Doctrinal Commission uses this term ‘renewal of baptism in the Holy Spirit,’ to describe this re-dedicating of ourselves to the Holy Spirit and renewing of the commitments of our Baptismal/ Confirmation vows.

This is what the Vatican Doctrinal Commission into the Catholic Charismatic Renewal says about ‘renewing our baptism in the Holy Spirit’ (renewing our Baptismal/ Confirmation promises/ relationship / dedication to the Holy Spirit whom we recevied at Baptism/ Confirmation).

http://www.iccrs.org/_files/files/R..._En Baptised in the Spirit more than once.pdf
 
Last edited:
commenter said:
I was in the charismatic movement in the 70s and 80s. I found that the renewal was very good for those who had a sound knowledge of Catholic doctrine, but needed encouragement towards a personal relationship with God, to allow the Spirit to renew them.

As time went on, I met many Catholics in the life in the Spirit seminars who had no idea of Catholic doctrine. They did not have the context to understand this, or ANY renewal. Telling THESE people to rely on personal renewal left them open to other trends rampant then, and now, to be suspicious of the magisterium and Tradition.

This in no way means the charismatic renewal is bad, just that we have to exercise prudence in terms of when, where, and for whom, this would be the next priority. Campus ministry at Steubenville? Sure. Religion class at Cotton Candy Catechetics? Nope.
Click to expand...
I agree that to rely only on personal renewal is the downside of the spirituality, if indeed this is true.

From my experience, this did not happen, well, perhaps for few people, but generally the effect of the baptism in the Holy Spirit caused the renewal of the person’s faith and love of God and the Church. There was great interest to know more about the Church – through personal initiative, readings, seminars, committed Christian life through the various charismatic movements, prayers, Bible and the Sacraments.

I would say, they are more knowledgeable of the Church doctrine as compared to before they were in the Renewal. This is because they were exposed to teachings and practicing of the faith in a very tangible way. One cannot disintegrate if one continuously seeks God and His presence in one’s life.
 
A great many people who have the Renewal experience have turned into apologetic in their effort to deal with challenges in their work of evangelization.
 
This is true. 40 years ago we were focused on apathy among Catholics as the main obstacle. I recall hearing a talk in my city by Ralph Martin, warning about false doctrine being given under Catholic auspices. This was prophetic!

Obviously the Holy Spirit can’t be stopped by false teaching, but in God’s plan He sometimes “needs” human beings to communicate the Truth, and nowadays, to explain where the Truth is not.

Ralph Martin is arguably the most important American voice for renewing the Church since Vatican 2. In each decade he consistently affirmed what we were, at the moment, most likely to forget.
 
I would limit my comment on the Renewal on what it has done, which is a grace of the move of the Holy Spirit. It has changed lives, which would be unchanged had it not been for this grace. I have seen people, myself included who were recipients of this grace and we have found new life in the Spirit, and today we are still finding and having this joy experiencing the love of God in our lives. Of course, it is not always a bed of roses, and in many areas we are struggling, but for the power of the Holy Spirit, it was and is a wonderful journey.

We still hear hundreds of testimonies about changed lives and almost all of them began with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. A simple touch but was fanned into flame and they found themselves on fire for God. That might be the beginning but the grace allows them to move on.

As for teaching, this is often made a very great deal of, which in my experience is not the issue. A renewed Catholic would become more Catholic, so except for very rare cases, there is actually no false teaching. A Catholic would look to the Magisterium and the Pope; he or she becomes part of the parish. Thus we do not encounter false teaching, and again, it is never an issue.

Yes, some of those early leaders in the Renewal, like Ralph or Bob Cavnar, Cardinal Suenen and others (from different countries like Australia), many of them were not with us anymore, these are rocks of Catholicism in term of fidelity to the Church. There were some problems even in the early days but they were soon resolved and when the leaders met the Pope to assure and affirm their fidelity to him and to the Chuch. I could remember one of them as he kissed the Pope’s ring saying, “You are Peter”.

Today, the crowd is admittedly smaller but the journey still goes on as many of them become really part of the Church by involving themselves tangibly, perhaps without much fanfare but they are still there, Catholics faithful to the faith.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top