Fighting back against liberal theology

[Malcolm]

“Liberal Theology” isn’t a thing.

right , the devil won’t clarify his tactics for us so I expect our leaders to defend the dogmas instead of trying to redefine them to seem more appealing to the world.

To the extent churchmen have redefined the dogmas they’ve served the devil not Christ.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Some, llike “an empty hell” have been supported by conservative theologians, like von Balthassar

Balthassar wasn’t so conservative and his theories challenged the Gospels and Catholic teaching:

Library : The Inflated Reputation of Hans Urs von Balthasar | Catholic Culture

I agree, buckle down, hold on and pray, God is in charge

Yes, but then won’t we be making everything subjective?:

So, in other words study the faith, believe and follow the teachings of the Church, trust God and do not fear. Hold on to the absolute truth given to us through divine revelation. Jesus told us there would be attacks.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Liberal theology? Oh please.

There are surely liberal theologians and conservative theologians, but that doesn’t make what they do “Liberal” or “Conservative” theology

Maybe we should use Blessed John Henry Newman’s terminology - “liberalism in religion”

(1) “the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion,” (2) “that one creed is as good as another,” (3) that no religion can be recognized as true for “all are matter of opinion,” (4) that “revealed religion is not a truth, but a sentiment and a taste; not an objective faith, not miraculous,” and (5) “it is the right of each individual to make it say just what strikes his fancy.”…

 

[Dovekin]

To the extent churchmen have redefined the dogmas they’ve served the devil not Christ.

Pope John XXIII seems to have had something else in mind when he convened the Council

What instead is necessary today is that the whole of Christian doctrine, with no part of it lost, be received in our times by all with a new fervor, in serenity and peace, in that traditional and precise conceptuality and expression which is especially displayed in the acts of the Councils of Trent and Vatican I. As all sincere promoters of Christian, Catholic, and apostolic faith strongly desire, what is needed is that this doctrine be more fully and more profoundly known and that minds be more fully imbued and formed by it. What is needed is that this certain and unchangeable doctrine, to which loyal submission is due, be investigated and presented in the way demanded by our times. For the deposit of faith, the truths contained in our venerable doctrine, are one thing; the fashion in which they are expressed, but with the same meaning and the same judgement, is another thing. This way of speaking will require a great deal of work and, it may be, much patience: types of presentation must be introduced which are more in accord with a teaching authority which is primarily pastoral in character.
John XXIII Opening Speech to the Second Vatican Council

 

[Malcolm]

Pope John XXIII seems to have had something else in mind when he convened the Council

no doubt but somehow the best intentions seem to have led directly to the “smoke of Satan” entering anyway

whatever the cause , whoever is to blame , I would very much like to see a return to the clarity of catholic tradition rather than more of the problem being applied to supposedly remedy the problem

 

[Malcolm]

There is no true fraternity outside the supernatural, which does not come from relationships among men, but from God (1 Thessalonians, 1,4). In the same way, there is no peace possible outside that of Christian peace, since the source of true peace is Christ, Incarnate Wisdom, Who “preached peace to you that were afar off, and peace to them that were nigh” (Ephesians, 2, 17). Peace is a gift from God, brought to mankind by Jesus Christ, Son of God and Sovereign of Heaven and Earth. The Catholic Church founded by Him, is the supreme depository of peace, since She is custodian of the truth and peace is founded on truth and justice.

Neo-Modernism, entrenched at the very top of the Church, preaches false peace and false fraternity. But false peace brings war into the world, just as false fraternity brings schism, which is war inside the Church. St. Luigi Orione had dramatically foreseen it all on June 26 1913: “Modernism and semi-Modernism cannot go on — sooner or later it’s going to be Protestantism or a schism in the Church which will be the most terrible that the world has ever seen”

 

[YourNameHere]

I have not heard all of this so-called liberal theology. I am sure were you are coming up with all of this stuff. But it is not practices at my parish. And I have not seen it at other churches in the part of the country where I live.
I have never subscribed to the liberal vs. conservative rhetoric whether it be in the church, politics, or life in general.
There are those who want to make it a liberal vs. conservative world, where we true people much demonize those who are against our perception of how things should be.
I pray to God and I try to treat my brothers and sisters the way I would like to be treated. God bless the Catholic Church and God bless those who attend Mass as often as they can.
Special prayers for those who have some sort of personal agenda.

 

[phil19034]

I have never subscribed to the liberal vs. conservative rhetoric whether it be in the church, politics, or life in general.
There are those who want to make it a liberal vs. conservative world, where we true people much demonize those who are against our perception of how things should be.

Yeah, it’s not the same use of the word used in politics. There is not such thing as “conservative theology” in a Catholic context.

The phrase “liberal theology” is uses the following definition of the word “liberal”:

Open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

• https://www.dictionary.com/browse/liberal (adjective definition #8)

Also, you will note, when I gave my examples, I provided “extreme examples” which were mostly heretical. However, not all “liberal theology” would be automatically heretical - it just means the theology is not bound to traditional / conventional theology. You will notice, I did say a lot of liberal theology is “nuanced.”

NOTE: it’s also historically Protestant in nature, not Catholic. So many Catholics have not heard the phrasing before, and for other Catholics “liberal theology” is the attempt to introduce Protestant theology into the Catholic Church.

One form a “liberal theology” which is not heretical (in of itself) - however, many don’t like it - is the “critical method” in biblical studies. Many of the notes in the NAB use the critical method, which is why many don’t like it. Many argue that the critical method is fine for Ph.D. and Scripture Scholar to debate, but shouldn’t make its way into daily use Bibles - esp one approved and commissioned by the Catholic Church.

Here is the Encyclipedia Britannica’s article regarding liberal theology:

Theological liberalism | Religion, Beliefs & History | Britannica

So it does exist, and it has NOTHING to do with liberal politics (though they sometimes intersect), and “Liberal Theology” (which has been a thing since the 17th century) has been around far longer than “Liberal Politics.”

I pray this helps.

God Bless

 

[YourNameHere]

I think different terminology would make it more palatable. For example, traditional and modernistic, stead of conservative and liberal. Just saying…

 

[phil19034]

conservative and liberal. Just saying…

Yeah, “conservative” should not be used in a Catholic setting at all. That would be purely a protestant concept.

“Conservative theology” is tied with fundamentalism and evangelical protestantism - and typically refers to taking the Bible too literally. i.e. believing in literal 7, 24 hour days for Creation, etc.

In my view, both “conservative theology” and “liberal theology” eventually leads to heresy.

 

[YourNameHere]

Well said, Phil. Well said.

 

[Sword_of_Fire]

Nope. I’m not making it up. Liberal theology as in the rise of the social justice dystopia which can be directly linked to Freemasonry and occultism. The notion of fraternity based on pure humanity regardless of religion. This is athiestic humanism. Go back and read about Helena Blavatsky the Russian occultist.

 

[Sword_of_Fire]

The next works that I suggest are:

“The City of God” by St Augustine
“Treatises on the Orthodox Faith” by St Cyprian of Carthage

 

[YourNameHere]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Nor do I want to know.

 

[billsherman]

Liberal theology as in the rise of the social justice dystopia which can be directly linked to Freemasonry and occultism. The notion of fraternity based on pure humanity regardless of religion.

Even though “Liberal Theology” is still not a thing, I’m kind of afraid that you see social justice as dystopian and “fraternity based on pure humanity regardless of religion” as a bad thing. The Church explicitly rejects both of these ideas of yours. And Jesus does too in the Gospels. You know, the whole love your neighbor thing.

 

[Sword_of_Fire]

I’m not talking about merely having non-catholic friends. I have plenty myself. I’m referring to separation of church and state; I’m talking about the Sillonist mentality as mentioned in St Pope Pius X’s Notre Charge; I’m talking about the United Nations mentality.

 

[billsherman]

I’m referring to separation of church and state; I’m talking about the Sillonist mentality as mentioned in St Pope Pius X’s Notre Charge; I’m talking about the United Nations mentality.

The Church explicitly rejects your ideas, and frankly I’m glad. I would not want to live in your world. The separation of church and state is fundamental to human freedom. I would not want to live in a world where my religious beliefs are policed by the state. The Church doesn’t want to exist in that world either.

 

[goout]

The next works that I suggest are:

“The City of God” by St Augustine
“Treatises on the Orthodox Faith” by St Cyprian of Carthage

Romano Guardini has the best handle on the challenges of modernity for Christianity in my opinion.
“Spirit of the Liturgy”
“The End of the Modern World”

 

[Sword_of_Fire]

I’m afraid your mistaken. Go back and read the aforementioned writings.

 

[TMC]

I’m afraid your mistaken. Go back and read the aforementioned writings.

Are you not aware that the Church supports the separation of Church and State and the United Nations? What is your basis for saying it does not?

As for the so called “Sillonist mentality,” I am not sure exactly what you mean by that. Le Sillon was a labor movement that died out probably 100 years ago. The Church was (and is) supportive of the goals of that movement - as I recall Pope Pius X was mostly concerned with what he saw as a rejection of ecclesial authority (it has been a while since I read Notre Charge Apostolique). But things like fair wages, better working conditions, and a general raising up of the poor have always been Catholic goals. That part of the “Sillonist mentality” is alive and well in the Church, and always has been.