Filial Correction Petition - Good or Bad Idea?

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oppositeman13

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As many of us go one discussing the correction, I began thinking about whether or not the petition started by lifesite - here - https://www.change.org/p/petition-s...ity-for-the-filial-correction-of-pope-francis was a good or bad idea. I decided it was a bad idea. In a public way it crystallizes division and that can’t be good. I think a lot better petition would be “Let’s pray for our church”. This would bring those from each side in a constructive way to tackle the difficulty. It seems to me this is what God would want us to do - instead of defend our position and in some cases attacking the opposition. Although we do pray it would be good to show this publicly via a petition. Any thoughts?
 
I have mixed thoughts on this topic. On one hand, it is indeed important for there to be a public conversation about true Catholic teaching so that those who are uneducated about Catholic moral theology are not mislead by unclear and downright confusing statements by Church leaders.

On the other hand - there are some things which ordinary lay people are in no position to change, and so they should only concern themselves with praying that those things be repaired by the hand of Providence. For a lay person who is no position to have actual influence to spend his days railing against Church leaders, posting on social media, and destroying his own spiritual life out of frustration and resentment, is NOT a good choice.

It is the duty of our priests and bishops to correct these errors (and in some cases, highly respected lay theologians). If a lay person is in a position where he can encourage one of those people to take action, or if he has any other sort of influence to effect real change, he should. But for anyone to “rally the masses” as if they will help the situation by creating a revolution? Very, very dangerous.
 
well - both sides will sign the petition - it is not for one side or the other - it would be a petition to pray for resolution in light of God’s will - that our leaders would resolve this. How can that be a bad idea?
 
I think it would be good to clarify that in my previous post on this thread, I was speaking in most part to a general point about raising “petitions” or rallying “popular support” for this sort of thing. In regards to this letter in particular, I think it was well written and I hope it has effect - though I doubt this pontiff will respond…
 
It was inevitable. Whether it was “good” or “bad” is irrelevant.

Personally I tend to think it is a good thing, but also a very sad thing. I think we are about to witness a catastrophe.
 
It was necessary, and probably a good thing, I’ll agree with @ChunkMonk on that. Is it the best method to provoke a response or clarification? Maybe, maybe not. But something had to be done - there is too much ambiguity out there to let this situation fester any longer. Souls are at stake. I would bet a fairly large sum that Pope Francis will not respond; I think the best chance we have of hearing anything from him about it is if someone asks him a question about it in an interview in one of his “off the cuff” media sessions on the papal plane.

It is clear that the situation surrounding the AL controversy will not get better anytime soon. Pope Francis can indefinitely ignore it and pretend it does not exist, but it’s not going away and will continue to cast a shadow over his papacy.
 
Yes, it was inevitable. And sad, I don’t express that enough. I do think this is the very traditionalist ‘faithful remnant’ wing at this point, going public with words like ‘heresy.’ But the fact remains a sizable number say this behind closed doors, and are fearful to express these views, or sympathy with these views, publicly; I put this at about 30-40% of the Church - hierarchy and laity. Look at Anglicanism. They have stayed united at all costs - there are widely diverging accepted teachings, though the liberal side is becoming quite a bit more dominant, gay marriage being the latest victory- women priests was awhile ago. The Catholic Church is just reflecting the culture like all Western Churches - change doctrine or no. That is the question. It is not really anywhere near as complicated as some would have you believe. The stakes however are quite high. If you believe, that is. I am confident the Church will survive in some true form. This fracas also is reminding me more and more of darker periods in the past, Middle Ages, Renaissance. It might take awhile to put things right. By which I mean decades, centuries maybe, hope not.
 
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No doubt a correction was forthcoming and it had to be so but it just seems that someone, and I looked it up, would start a prayer petition, that regardless of how one felt and thought on the matter, we could all join in. It would be a statement and a way of pledging union with each other - the over riding common concern and interest of catholics. To see 50 million signatures on the petition would make us all very happy and bring tears to God’s eyes I think.
 
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I agree that we should pray about it. But we pray for things, for outcomes. I sign a petition to pray about it, I’m going to have a very different prayer than another Catholic who signs the same petition. In fact we’ll probably be praying for the opposite thing. We’ll have the appearances of unity, but that will just be a band-aid on a compound fracture.

So I agree that we should pray, and even pray for the opposite thing. And I would sign the petition to pray even after I see the other side sign the same petition. But after we pray they and I will still be on opposite sides, and those sides will only grow further apart from each other.

The only way to end the struggle in unity is for one side to submit or be submitted. The common ground simply doesn’t exist anymore because we’re no longer talking about superficialities but the very nature.
 
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I have already written 3 prayers - we can do without my voice on it though - how about something like one of these?


 
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I agree but we should never give up hope that God will perform a miracle and straighten this out. Just because we, as humans, can’t see how this can be done for God it would be simple - if He chose to do so - which would be based I think on our prayers for unity.
 
You are right, of course. For God, this would indeed be a simple thing. I sometimes forget that we are not alone down here. It is good to be reminded.

They are beautiful prayers, and if we do pray hard enough and with enough humility, God will surely answer them.
 
I’m not sure that I support this particular petition. I agree that the Dubia and even the recent Correction are necessary (even if I disagree with some particular aspects of both), but a lay petition just feels out of place. On the other hand I think it’s important that the discomfort and confusion of the laity is given voice, I just don’t know that we’ve reached the tipping point yet where such a voice is necessary.

Right now it seems to just give voice to some of the fringier, angrier elements of the laity, and I’d rather the focus be on the questions of moral theology and not general displeasure with a “liberal” Pope.

Peace and God bless!
 
It seems to me that praying for the conversion of the “other side” is prideful. One is taking the position that they belong to the “correct side” - something they cannot know for sure. I don’t think prayers for this intention are particularly pleasing to God. What I think God wants to see is us praying for the unity of our church and that He leads Pope Francis in the way necessary to do this. So many of us have already made up our mind that there will be no resolution soon and we need to dig in for the long haul. By praying for the “other side” we reinforce in our minds there is division. The enemy will use this to his advantage. When we pray for unity we disarm the enemy and soften our hearts.
 
Lifesite is NOT a good website, not reliable and very anti-Catholic despite what it says.
If that’s where this junk originated, I’m DEFINITELY not interested.
 
your missing the point of the post - it’s not to sign the petition - I think it is a bad idea and the post explains what, I think, we should be doing.
 
I mentioned them because I dis agree with them - here is my point - I decided it was a bad idea. In a public way it crystallizes division and that can’t be good. I think a lot better petition would be “Let’s pray for our church”. This would bring those from each side in a constructive way to tackle the difficulty. It seems to me this is what God would want us to do - instead of defend our position and in some cases attacking the opposition. Although we do pray it would be good to show this publicly via a petition. Any thoughts?
 
I agree with you, yes. In this age everybody gets an opinion. It delights the prince of lies. That we have faithful Catholics expressing doubt on a teaching that is meant for clerics by the Pope is playing right into his wheelhouse.
People are blind to this. But it’s a very calculating thing, designed to create schism.
No bueno.
 
What would this public petition accomplish that individual letters to the Holy See would not accomplish? Nothing.
Essentially Lifesite is encouraging people to play the secular political game, and apply that to the Church. Lifesite is one of a dozen or so competing websites on the Right. They all try to boost their website hits, sell more ads, generate more donations. It used to be these media could get attention by criticizing pastors or convents; then when their competitors were doing that, they all had to escalate to denouncing bishops. Now that is old hat, so they have to criticize the pope.

They don’t do it directly. They make a point, gosh, so many laity are hurt, and feeling confused by the ambiguity and alleged heresy coming out of Rome. We are just trying to help laity express their feelings to Rome, seeking clarification.

Baloney.

Keep in mind Lifesite wants you to route your hurts and concerns through them. Their competitors would prefer you route your concerns through the competitor websites. But is Lifesite, and the similar sites, really responding to confusion and hurt among the laity or are they generating half of that confusion and hurt?

Lifesite is not always wrong, like any hammer some of the things they hit actually are nails. But they have no ability to support Catholic authority when it happens to be right. They have one mode - outrage - and they lack the ability to discern other sources of problems besides Catholic authority. A good Catholic medium could shift gears, they can’t.

I suspect even if Cardinal Burke were made next pope, even if most new bishops were like Bishop Schneider, Lifesite would keep finding Rome and the bishops as constant sources of problems rather than secular sources, and rather than finding any strengths in Catholic authority. They only have one gear.
 
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