S
Seraphim73
Guest
Again this is a very strange and fallacious line of reasoning. None of the things you cite state that the Spirit proceeds from the Son. You are setting up a gigantic straw man on the question on Constantinople. Again, no one ever said a teaching can’t be clarified. If the Church can’t speak for the Church then I’m not sure why we are talking about anything. But what the Church cannot do is change a teaching.“The Father and the Son is One”, the filioque never contradicts this divine revelation from Jesus recorded in the memoirs of the Apostles. The filioque confirms from scripture “and the Word became flesh”, suggesting that there never was a time that the Word was not God, to include; “I am in the Father” supports the filioque.
Jesus teaches; “if you seen me, you have seen the Father” which supports the filioque, and elsewhere; " But if I go, I will send Him (paraclete) to you" and again, “He (paraclete) will glorify me, for He will take what is mine and declare it to you, All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that He (paralclete) will take what is mine and declare it to you”.
“All that the Father has is mine” is a direct teaching from CCC relating to the filioque.
Because Jesus said the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, we are to excommunicate Him because Jesus added clarification or changed His theology, when Jesus teaches that He will send the Holy Spirit to us?
Interesting that you said this Seraphim73; Constantinople, whether you claim this council did not change the Nicene Creed, but added to the Nicene Creed. Does not the anathema still apply to the council of Constantinople for it’s addition?
I think it is clear from the development of the Nicene Creed from it’s changes or additions from these two early councils, disqualifies your non Apostolic traditional reason to faith and development.
You said; “No one says you can’t better explain a teaching or understand it more deeply”.
Did not the councils develop her doctrines from the Apostolic sacred Traditions using your own perspective? Did not the Pope at a later time use this same reasoning and faith to defeat heretics in the West with the filioque and the same Creed, which was changed, added from earlier Church councils?
You say the filioque changed the Creed, so did the earlier the Church councils of Nicea and Constantinople. The difference here is; That neither the filioque nor the insertion into the Creed from Nicea or Constantinoplle ever change the apostolic faith handed down to us from Jesus and His apostles.
I have a question for you Seraphim? Why did the Eastern Church’s find it necessary to invent or introduce and develope a Nicene Creed when the Church already had the Apostles Creed in practice?
If you find it necessary to make such a case of the filioque that changes the existing Apostolic faith, then it remains to be proven by those who hold to such a claim.
Do you think, your same claim; if spoken from the Nicea Council? would made any impact to the Council of Constantinople who added or changed the Nicene Creed?
Using your reasoning when it is professed from the Nicene Creed the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, does not the filioque apply when the “first clause you cite simply expands on an already existing teaching”?
Is it not ridiculous to apply a secular reason and tradition to an Already Apostolic Tradition of reason and faith to develop Church doctrine against any heretics or heresies in every and any age which predate Constantinople and post Constantinople to the present?
Peace be with you