Final exam religion 1

[mardukm]

No it is worded accurately --if the Church teaches on a matter on faith and/or morals over a constant period of time the teaching is infallible by virtue of the ordinary magisterium. However sometimes it is hard to determine “what a constant period of time” is…So, at times, we need the extraordinary magisterium to step in and remove any doubt.

OK. So when you say “ordinary magisterium” you are already implying a collective and united body? After all, it is Vatican 2 that makes the distinction that the bishops must be united in the teaching for the ordinary magisterium to evince infallibility.

Blessings

 

[Rogerteder]

of course the teachings have to be approved by the Pope or they aren’t ordinary teachings–
By ordinary magisterium we mean the everyday teaching of the Church–encyclicals, aposolic letters, Holy Office statements,–I could go on and on…

 

[mardukm]

of course the teachings have to be approved by the Pope or they aren’t ordinary teachings–

I think “approved by the Pope” is a bit misleading as it applies to the ordinary magisterium. That implies that the Pope is making a definition (not necessarily, but it implies it nonetheless). In fact, the ordinary magisterium does not require papal “approval.” The infallible ordinary magisterium only requires that all the bishops (including the Pope) teach on a certain matter of faith and/or morals unanimously.

If the teaching actually required the “approval” of the Pope, it would become a matter of the EXTRAordinary magisterium.

Blessings

 

[Rogerteder]

Uh, I know that.

I’m pleased to know you’re interested in defending your faith. However, you missed the entire point of my post. Do you know what the word “ambiguous” means? If you don’t, please look it up in the dictionary. It’s okay, I’ll wait.

Now, then. My point was that some of the test questions were ambiguous. For example, the one about Mary having other children. It’s true she had no other *biological *children. But it’s also true that, from the cross, Jesus gave her to us as our mother. Furthermore, the Book of Revelation calls us her children. (See Revelation 12:1-17). So, if I’m a student taking the test, how do I answer? In one way the answer is true. In another way it is false. That’s because the teacher was not clear what he meant by “other children.” It does matter what the chapter says, but isn’t the Bible, God’s very word, also part of a religion class? If I know scripture, shouldn’t I apply it to all test questions?

You’re very young, and you’ve never taught high school. I have. I taught it for ten years, and believe me, students will challenge their test scores, especially if they think it will affect their GPA. If I had given this test and a student had challenged the answer (and he would have been able to make a good case that the question was ambiguous), I would have had to throw the question out. Then I would have had to go back and redo all the test scores.

I am trying to save this teacher all that trouble by pointing out that he needs to be clearer with his test questions.

Now, is everybody okay with that, or am I going to get criticized again for trying to do someone a favor?

I already dealt wit the Mary question earlier. The question was clarified to the forum and students to mean biological children. Perhaps I should have added that to the question.

 

[Rogerteder]

I think “approved by the Pope” is a bit misleading as it applies to the ordinary magisterium. That implies that the Pope is making a definition (not necessarily, but it implies it nonetheless). In fact, the ordinary magisterium does not require papal “approval.” The infallible ordinary magisterium only requires that all the bishops (including the Pope) teach on a certain matter of faith and/or morals unanimously.

If the teaching actually required the “approval” of the Pope, it would become a matter of the EXTRAordinary magisterium.

Blessings

Not true at all. The ordinary magisterium does in fact need Papal approval when it is an office or synod or conference of bishops making a statement. It doesnt make it extraordinarily infallible because the Pope approved it. example: If the congregation for the doctrine of the faith issues a statement on a doctrinal matter. The Pope still needs to approve it to be official. That does not make it infallible in and of itself. It may be infallible by virtue of the ordinary magisterium. (constant period of time)

 

[Rogerteder]

But the scripture passage doesn’t say he had “non-communicable knowledge.” It says he didn’t know, period. And, to clarify it, the passage says only the Father knows.

Since the word “knows” appears only once, it must have the same definition when applied to all the passage speaks of: the angels, the Son, and the Father. So the way in which the knowledge exists would have to be the same for all, wouldn’t it? Furthermore, the passage uses the word “but.” “But” is used to show a contrast between things. So, isn’t the passage showing a contrast between what the angels and the Son know and what the Father knows, not the manner in which they know it? After all, if the passage is using “knows” to mean knowing in a “non-communicable” way, what is the point of showing a contrast between the “angels and the Son” and the Father?

But wait! It gets worse! Luke 2:52 says, “And Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and favor before God and man.” How can one advance in wisdom unless one is learning something, like how to be more wise? This too would seem to imply an ignorance about certain things.

My point is this: you need to be extremely careful how you word tests. Unless you teach the Magesterium’s interpretation of these passages, one day you’re going to get a student who’s going to protest you marking him wrong about this, especially if it makes a difference in his grade. He (and his parents) might even take it to the principal. And you would have to admit he has Bible passages to back him up.

Look, I taught high school for ten years, so I know about this sort of thing firsthand. Believe me, it’s a lot easier to make sure your questions are unambiguous than to have to argue about a question with students, parents, and your principal. It’s a lot easier to have your questions clear than have to go back and re-grade all the tests.

I’m not trying to be difficult; I’m trying to do you a favor as one teacher to another.

There are many passages that appear contradictory. Jesus said “The Father is greater than I.” What did he mean though? It is up to the Church through sacred Tradition to clarify difficult passages for us. The Church and Tradition has clearly done this with this passage.

It does say that. However, it is up to the Church to tell us what Jesus meant–

 

[mardukm]

Not true at all. The ordinary magisterium does in fact need Papal approval when it is an office or synod or conference of bishops making a statement. It doesnt make it extraordinarily infallible because the Pope approved it. example: If the congregation for the doctrine of the faith issues a statement on a doctrinal matter. The Pope still needs to approve it to be official. That does not make it infallible in and of itself. It may be infallible by virtue of the ordinary magisterium. (constant period of time)

Oh, OK. I see what you mean. I’m guilty of taking the V2 statement at face value (it refers only to individual bishops, not episcoal conferences or local synods).

Blessings

 

[Kay_Cee]

I already dealt wit the Mary question earlier. The question was clarified to the forum and students to mean biological children. Perhaps I should have added that to the question.

Yes, I know. I was responding to Catholic1seeks, not you.

 

[Kay_Cee]

There are many passages that appear contradictory. Jesus said “The Father is greater than I.” What did he mean though? It is up to the Church through sacred Tradition to clarify difficult passages for us. The Church and Tradition has clearly done this with this passage.

It does say that. However, it is up to the Church to tell us what Jesus meant–

Could we please once and for all be clear about what I’m saying? I’m not disputing this!!! I’m saying some of the test questions were ambiguous.

How many times do I have to say that?!!!