Final Fantasy VII

[LittleFlower378]

Thank you so much for that in depth explanation. So you think it’s a morally sound game?

 

[ZMystiCat]

RE 2 was a good game, FF7 was iconic.Big difference.

You’re seriously underselling RE2. Just as FFVII stands up there with games like FFVI and Chrono Trigger as iconic JRPGs, so too does RE2 stand up with its predecessor and Silent Hill 2 as iconic survival horror games.

That said, I don’t really get the idea that any game is so pure and sacred as to be off limits for a remake. I get being angry over bad remakes, but that’s because it is a bad remake, not that the original was some sacred religious text and blasphemy was committed by remaking it.

I don’t know that the thing about Majora’s Mask is fan theory.

Sorry, I wasn’t saying there’s fan theories around Majora’s Mask or Twilight Princess. Well, there probably are, but I wasn’t referencing them. It’s more that Link’s Awakening has a story that very explicitly deals with themes that tend to get brought up in dark fan theories, and it really doesn’t pull any punches either.

With that said, I’m not really trying to downplay Majora’s Mask or Twilight Princess. Twilight Princess is actually my favorite Zelda game. It’s more just confusion around why those two are the only ones ever brought up in the discussion, though in some cases it may have to do with how much more popular they are (or were prior to the Switch remake) than Link’s Awakening.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Thank you so much for that in depth explanation. So you think it’s a morally sound game?

Spaking specifically about FFVII there is one section in the game that prevents me from giving you an unambiguous “yes” There’s some questionable things that happen in the Wall market (red light district of the slums) in the first couple of hours of the game. I’ll describe it and will let you be the judge.

The main character (man) has to reluctantly dress as a woman to sneak past some guards and rescue a friend. It’s made clear that he isn’t thrilled about doing this. He was in SOLDIER after all and the wig, dress, and makeup are not good for his masculine image. While collecting the items needed to be presented as a woman there’s a character (Big Bro, the prettiest Bro) in a gym labeled with 男 (which means male/man) that might actually be a trans-man. The main character almost calls Big Bro’s actual sex out “But you are a…” , but one of the travelling companions stops him as they need this person’s assistance. There’s also a questionable event that can happen in the same area in a building called “The Honeybee Inn” labeled with 女 (woman). My memory of what happens is vague, but I recall the main character getting in a hot tub, then a lot of other men hopping in, and the main character passes out (as he is prone to doing in the first half of the game) and when he wakes up one of the things he says is “It hurts.” What ever the “it” is was never specified. But interpretations are fairly uniform.

When I played the game back in 1997 cross dressing was seen as a joke and something to laugh at. In today’s climate they take on a different connotation. I imagine in the remake they are going to have to rework that scenario. The trailers show the character in the dress suggesting it is still in the remake. But if they present it as something to laugh at I’m pretty sure the trans community won’t be kind to them. What they will do instead I do not know.

 

[LittleFlower378]

That’s very interesting. My guess is that in today’s climate those immoral scenes will be worse and more added. But wouldn’t it be nice if they made those scenes to be kid friendly and changed them for the good. If so I would be interested in playing this game. When aI was a kid I loved Final Fantasy 1 through 4.

 

[Inquiry]

Ah, okay. Well the fan theory that I was referencing was that Link died in the fall in the opening scenes and the rest of the game is him coming to terms with it. The evidence for it is the randomness of the fall, that you keep transforming by putting on the masks of dead people, a couple of strange lines, and the similarity each of the towns has to one of the five stages of grief.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

When aI was a kid I loved Final Fantasy 1 through 4.

You would probably like Final Fantasy IX. For that one they brought back someone that had worked on the first few. It is very much a reminder of how the earlier games were.

Final Fantasy VI (sold as FFIII in the USA) was the one that got me hooked. I have liked all off them with the exception of that MMORPG one.

I like the Kingdom Hearts games too; which is one of the only places where the FF characters come together.

 

[ZMystiCat]

Without knowing any specific games, the main reason I can think of is to take advantage of all the advancement games have undergone. Beyond just technology, many aspects of design have improved considerably (e.g. tank controls have mostly gone away). Along with helping fans re-experience the game as if it were made today, it also is a pretty good way of helping younger gamers, who might be turned off by things like tank controls and random encounters, share in the experience.

Using RE2 as an example, that game released at a time where horror games tended towards fixed camera angles and tank controls and before we really started seeing persistently-pursuing enemies. Of course, RE4 completely revolutionized how we thought about camera angles and controls, and games like RE3 and, more recently, Alien: Isolation helped popularize persistently-pursuing enemies. RE2 took advantage of all of this, allowing an experience similar to the original but with the major advancements of gaming (some of which were made by later Resident Evil games) in mind.

But even if the game is just ported to new hardware, it still makes for a convenient way to play the game. Sure, someone might ask why bother porting older Assassin’s Creed games to newer consoles, but as someone who’s bought all the AC games on Switch, I certainly feel like it was worth it just to have an easy way to re-experience some of my favorite games in the series.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

this is the only hint I have at the direction in which they may go.

Start at about time marker 1:03

 

[ZMystiCat]

Reminds me of this quote from the Bojack Horseman episode “Free Churro”:

And I remember one time, a fan asked me, “Hey, um, you know that episode where the horse has to give Ethan a pep talk after Ethan finds out his crush only asked him to the dance because her friends were having a dorkiest date contest? In all the shots of the horse, you can see a paper coffee cup on the kitchen counter, but in the shots of Ethan, the coffee cup’s missing. Was that because the show was making a statement about the fluctuant subjectivity of memory and how even two people can experience the same moment in entirely different ways?” And I didn’t have the heart to be, like, “No, man, some crew guy just left their coffee cup in the shot.” So instead, I was, like… “Yeah.”

And maybe this is like that coffee cup. Maybe we’re dumb to try to pin significance onto every little thing.

But as for Final Fantasy VII, it’s just the seventh main game of a series that got its name because the company that made the original was sure it’d be their final game, since they were on the verge of bankruptcy. That seventh game just happened to come at a time when games were shifting to 3D, and Sony was forcing its way into the market with the Playstation. FFVII didn’t just handle the transition well but also took advantage of it to create a compelling experience that has stuck with people to this day. There’s no point in trying to attribute anything more.

Now please excuse me as I go finish my blog post about how Santa is Satan, which is clear from how rearranging the letters of “Santa” gets you “Satan”. I’m still trying to figure out what this means for those living in Santa Clara, Santa Barbara, and Santa Cruz, but it can’t be good!

 

[ZMystiCat]

For instance, in Super Mario Galaxy, it is taught that we are all just ‘star dust’. Do you think that such an big-bangish theology got in there by accident?

The big bang isn’t against Catholic theology. In fact, it was a Catholic who first proposed the idea.

Also, Super Mario Galaxy is obvious fantasy. Anyone incapable of making that distinction has much bigger problems than going, “Huh, my body is made of the same stuff that stars are made of.” (Which, scientifically, is actually true.)

The same holds for FFVII. Someone incapable of making the distinction between it and reality has some pretty obvious problems before we start wondering where that leads us. (In fact, the Final Fantasy House kind of shows us just how truly horrific things can get when people start failing to separate fiction from reality.)

 

[ZMystiCat]

It is actually not scientifically true, as the earthly matter is differing than the makeup of the ‘stars’.

Fundamentally, there are still plenty of atoms that make up Earth and what inhabits it that also make up stars. For instance, humans are about 10% hydrogen, which is the primary element of the sun. We can even go deeper into what makes up those atoms. Those fundamental building blocks are what I was talking about.

I am speaking of the matter of ideology (of words, of ideas) being taught, promoted.

And doing so by pointing to clearly fictitious elements meant for world building.

 

[Inquiry]

It is not the matter of distinguishing something as ‘game’ to that which is ‘not game’. I am speaking of the matter of ideology (of words, of ideas) being taught, promoted. You do not think that ‘games’ cannot convey messages, ideas and that it is all merely neutral? There are some games which teach some very dark things, and all in contrast to the religion of Jesus.

In fact, a good question to ask is, what does what I am imbibing, teach about Jesus and the gospel of?

Well I guess I’m never going to let my kids watch the Lego Movie. It is, after all, the most gnostic movie I’m aware of (it even overtakes the Matrix).

Joking aside. I will not walk in fear of contamination from ideas. There is knowledge I consider intrinsically dangerous, such as information on summoning demons, but that is because it specifically invites things in. Other knowledge, though, I am better off knowing and evaluating.

 

[Inquiry]

Depictions are not instructions or invitations. A Ouija board decorated in fat little cherubs and flowers is far more dangerous than any amount of Hieronymus Bosch paintings.

 

[edward_george1]

Well I guess I’m never going to let my kids watch the Lego Movie. It is, after all, the most gnostic movie I’m aware of (it even overtakes the Matrix).

Actually, I’ve given a talk in two parishes I’ve been assigned to about how the Lego Movie is the most Catholic movie to come out in recent history. Its depiction of complimentarity in relationships is excellent, and there’s even a scene about the contemplative life.

God even speaks through the culture, because every encounter with the true, the good, and the beautiful is an encounter with God. As St Paul told Timothy: “Test everything, hold on to what is good.”

-Fr ACEGC

 

[PaladinSword]

I just meant a lot of the imagery associated with a certain character in a church could be very unique in videogames. it’s like the church in the slums is such a significant place in 7 and in advent children. advent children even has an image to things like sin and baptism and resurrection. it just seems very catholic but it is still fantasy. I also agree with a previous poster about sephiroth being like Lucifer.

other games Zelda of course. lunar silver star story. lufia 2. illusion of gaia. final fantasy 4 when Cecil becomes the paladin

 

[Inquiry]

I’m going to have to remember this.

I joke about it being gnostic because there are some clear elements that match up, such as an actual dispute between a demiurge and a much more creative figure. It’s pretty clearly subverted by the demiurge having a change of heart, though, as well as the celebration of the material (lego) world as a good thing.

I’ve never actually focused on the complementarity aspect before. I think I may need to watch it again.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Gnostic themes are kind of popular in Hollywood. But sometimes the Christian story sneaks through almost as if by accident, like Neo sacrificing himself in the last Matrix movie.

 

[PaladinSword]

I still think Cloud is very similar to St Michael the Archangel

 

[edward_george1]

Not making this up, but I make marriage prep couples watch it as part of their preparation.

 

[PaladinSword]

yes typology as in an archetype. sure and that is all I’m saying.

and I dont think enjoying a good story is a waste of time