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Mary_girl
Guest
u never know!!!
keep trying! lol
Mary’s devoted teen
keep trying! lol
Mary’s devoted teen
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Michael_Saint
Guest
I think your mother is pretty much right on the nose.I’m at a loss. My mother seems to be of the belief that if it’s God’s will for me to marry one day, He will basically just throw someone out in front of me.
I am 30, have been in seminary and have also discerned marriage. What have I learned? I can do all the right things and meet all the right people, and if it’s not God’s will and timing, it just 'aint gonna happen. Of course, we can always “force” things to happen - but believe me, many of my female friends here have done it, and their life is a living hell.
You must embrace your singleness (single life is a gift, you know), and live that “vocation” to the fullest, and God will drop the right person in your lap. And if He wants you to remain single (I know, you may not be willing to accept this - a lot of the women I mentioned above didn’t [but to them, a lapsed Catholic is better than no one at all - how sad!]). It really comes down to faith and trust in God’s timing. And as far as I am concerned, you should get off those silly internet sites.
I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but I think it’s the truth.
I’ll leave you with a quote from Kimberly Hahn: “If you want to find Mr. Right, stop looking for him!”. Matthew 6:33 - try it, it really works! My best friend, who is in the seminary, lives by it, and boy does God reward his faith!
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jdemnyan
Guest
Excellent response!!! Throughout my time in seminary and subsequent departure as well as some disappointing results in courting the fairer sex has lead me to believe that, no matter how much you may desire a calling or a spouse, if the Lord hasn’t ordained such at that particular point in your life, chances are things will fall apart, and if you follow through, despite the Lord’s will, you will be utterly miserable! My advice to anyone discerning a vocation or to married life is to pray, pray, pray. All will work out in God’s time!
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Norseman82
Guest
This has got to be the most HORRIBLE and THEOLOGICALLY INACCURATE advice yet in this thread.
First of all, who says that God is a micromanaging God? Whatever happened to free will (I will explain later)? Are we Catholic or Calvinist? What are they teaching in seminaries?
Second, although it is true that you can do the right things and it still might not happen, that is not necessarily a sign that it is God’s will; we must first check to see if it is due to someone else not doing the right thing (like the scandal of virgins who reject fellow virgins for fornicators or adulterers or those ineligible for sacramental marriage and don’t even have the decency to tell the jilted virgins why but leave them hanging out to dry and trying to guess if there is some fault they need to correct; or to blame the Holocaust on “God’s will” rather than hold the people who gave Hitler and the SS the power accountable). Of course, it’s easier to tell the victim that it’s “God’s will” in order to guilt them into submission rather than confront the person hurting the victim because we are too lazy or gutless or suckered by the “nonjudgmentalism” of today.
Third, if a person discerns that they cannot handle lifelong celibacy, why in the world should they embrace that which they’ve determined they cannot handle? That is one of the deciding factors in discernment and why a lot of people get married instead of pursuing clergy/religious life. And yes, I spent time in a HS seminary and discerned priesthood as well.
Fourth, regarding the “stop looking” and “your spouse will be dropped in your lap” mentality:
a) The more I read statements like what Kimberly Hahn wrote (assuming she did in fact write it), the more I realize why 1 Timothy 2:12 is in the Bible.
b) All it does is breed indecision and complacency, when in fact what is needed, as a friend of mine once pointed out, is that people need to be flushed out of the thickets in which they are hiding. In fact, when I mentioned my distress in confession, do you know what the priest said to me? He asked me if I made myself available.
c) Would you tell someone looking for a job that the way to get a job is to stop looking? If you were a doctor would you tell a cancer patient to “embrace cancer and live it to the fullest” before you will give them chemotherapy?
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DAPDN
Guest
From my experience, which, I must add, compared to others who have already posted in this thread, could probably be little, I would say that the best thing to do in these situations is to live a good Christian life, while you’re waiting for the right person to come. I’d say that you must not put an excessive worry in that particular matter, because if you do, you’ll probably get anxious, and thus unavaliable to many of your other obligations as a Christian, and as a Roman Catholic, more specifically.
As someone already said, being a single, even if it’s just temporarily, until you find the person who is right for you to marry with (i.e., if your vocation is marriage and raising a Christian family), is a blessing. It is, in fact. It is necessary to recognize that the Lord puts you in that particular situation for a wide range of reasons, which you begin to recognize, if you trully live (or try to, as we all do!) a Christian life, through that period of time. I found myself much more avaliable to apostolate (which is a basic duty of any Christian, since the moment you are baptized) and other acts of piety and charity (undeniable obligations of a Christian life) towards your brothers and sisters, since my last relationship ended. It is a fact! You have more time, more disponibility, you have no obligations other than to your family, and you also have less worries, that are common when you have a relationship.
So, what I am trying to say is that in this situation, you might recognize that God is calling you to work a little bit for His Kingdom, for His people. Do not reject or despise this offer, because, I can guarantee you, you will be greatly rewarded, in the end. More important than this; do not despair. The Lord wants in every soul, an apostle. Confident apostles. Faithful apostles. Optimistic apostles! A person who is faithful must necessarily be an optimistic, confident person. Not confident or optimistic about him/herself, but about God, about the constant presence of God by him/her side, and finally, about God wanting the best for him/herself. So, in my humble opinion, I think that this is an excellent oportunity to improve your confidence in the Lord, throught prayer (the Rosary helps a lot, and through it, pray to Our Lady, so that Mary intercedes for you towards her Son), and to improve in your apostolate and in the cumpliment of your obligations as a Christian and a Catholic.
And wait for God’s timming, be a good observer and be alert and ready for the Graces that the Lord will bath you in, because, like I told you, when the reward comes, it will be a great one, if you enjoy this oportunity to be closer to God and to serve Him in His many works on this Earth.
As someone already said, being a single, even if it’s just temporarily, until you find the person who is right for you to marry with (i.e., if your vocation is marriage and raising a Christian family), is a blessing. It is, in fact. It is necessary to recognize that the Lord puts you in that particular situation for a wide range of reasons, which you begin to recognize, if you trully live (or try to, as we all do!) a Christian life, through that period of time. I found myself much more avaliable to apostolate (which is a basic duty of any Christian, since the moment you are baptized) and other acts of piety and charity (undeniable obligations of a Christian life) towards your brothers and sisters, since my last relationship ended. It is a fact! You have more time, more disponibility, you have no obligations other than to your family, and you also have less worries, that are common when you have a relationship.
So, what I am trying to say is that in this situation, you might recognize that God is calling you to work a little bit for His Kingdom, for His people. Do not reject or despise this offer, because, I can guarantee you, you will be greatly rewarded, in the end. More important than this; do not despair. The Lord wants in every soul, an apostle. Confident apostles. Faithful apostles. Optimistic apostles! A person who is faithful must necessarily be an optimistic, confident person. Not confident or optimistic about him/herself, but about God, about the constant presence of God by him/her side, and finally, about God wanting the best for him/herself. So, in my humble opinion, I think that this is an excellent oportunity to improve your confidence in the Lord, throught prayer (the Rosary helps a lot, and through it, pray to Our Lady, so that Mary intercedes for you towards her Son), and to improve in your apostolate and in the cumpliment of your obligations as a Christian and a Catholic.
And wait for God’s timming, be a good observer and be alert and ready for the Graces that the Lord will bath you in, because, like I told you, when the reward comes, it will be a great one, if you enjoy this oportunity to be closer to God and to serve Him in His many works on this Earth.
- DAPDN
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jrabs
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Wonderfully insightful post.
God will place you where you need to be at the correct time.
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jrabs
Guest
Wow - you are comparing cancer to being single?
Cancer’s gonna kill ya - being single will not.
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Gertabelle
Guest
Goodness, if I had the answer I’d tell you in a heartbeat. But as a 40y.o. single mom, I certainly don’t have the answers for where to find good, single, Catholic men.
The Catholic singles websites just left me cynical and cranky. Enough of that for awhile.
I really only know of one single man at my entire parish, and he’s not eligible for sacramental marriage. And he’s kinda creepy anyway.
Personally, here’s my recommendations:
Be cheerful, be content, and get involved in being Christ in this darkened world. God will work through that.
Oh, and be careful of the “Wal-mart” mentality of finding a good Catholic man – you know, where you want a line-up of a large selection you can browse through, and then pick out just the right size, color, price, style, etc. God has one man for you – and God will use your love and service of Him to bring the two of you together.
God bless you with peace and joy.
Gertie
The Catholic singles websites just left me cynical and cranky. Enough of that for awhile.
I really only know of one single man at my entire parish, and he’s not eligible for sacramental marriage. And he’s kinda creepy anyway.
Personally, here’s my recommendations:
- Give to your time to service – great way to put your love of God into action, and if you do meet a single man there, you’ll have that in common. As a wise couple once said to me, “If you want to find the one, then you need to be the one.”
- Pray, pray, pray – Pray especially for the man you are to marry. God alone knows what’s holding him up, so storm the gates of heaven for his well-being and salvation.
- Let it go and try to enjoy the relationships with the people around you. After a few months I noticed that I was actually able to have a conversation with a man after mass without first checking out whether or not he was wearing a wedding ring.
Be cheerful, be content, and get involved in being Christ in this darkened world. God will work through that.
Oh, and be careful of the “Wal-mart” mentality of finding a good Catholic man – you know, where you want a line-up of a large selection you can browse through, and then pick out just the right size, color, price, style, etc. God has one man for you – and God will use your love and service of Him to bring the two of you together.
God bless you with peace and joy.
Gertie
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Norseman82
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Yes, I most certainly am comparing it to cancer! And if you have discerned that you cannot handle celibacy (for whatever reason), it most certainly can kill you (spiritually)! Remember, even the Bible itself concedes that not everyone can handle lifelong celibacy (although not stated in those words exactly, but that is pretty much what 1 Cor. 7 and what Jesus said about not everyone being able to accept about the “eunuchs”).
Maybe if you were robbed of a family early in life you would see how the burden can catch up to a person and crush them.
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Lady_Bug
Guest
Well…
As far as singleness not killing you, there are people who take their own lives because singleness causes them that much pain. No joke.
Not all those people don’t love God enough. They love God a lot, and the more they love God, the more they don’t understand why they can’t participate in God’s design for the male and female. They want to feel a part of that sacrament. It means a lot to them.
I admire those who have the gift of celibacy and even though I cannot fathom HOW they have the gift, I accept the fact that some people have it. God knows how. But even though celibacy itself is a gift, not everyone is equipped with the gift of being able to remain single. Not everyone is called to that vocation. I simply don’t know how to explain why some people who have such a heartache for the vocation of marriage sometimes don’t have that desire fulfilled. I’ll never know. It’s not easy to accept. I’m not trying to hate God by not accepting it, but a part of me knows that I’ll never be able to accept it. It simply gets worse with age. Period.
As far as singleness not killing you, there are people who take their own lives because singleness causes them that much pain. No joke.
Not all those people don’t love God enough. They love God a lot, and the more they love God, the more they don’t understand why they can’t participate in God’s design for the male and female. They want to feel a part of that sacrament. It means a lot to them.
I admire those who have the gift of celibacy and even though I cannot fathom HOW they have the gift, I accept the fact that some people have it. God knows how. But even though celibacy itself is a gift, not everyone is equipped with the gift of being able to remain single. Not everyone is called to that vocation. I simply don’t know how to explain why some people who have such a heartache for the vocation of marriage sometimes don’t have that desire fulfilled. I’ll never know. It’s not easy to accept. I’m not trying to hate God by not accepting it, but a part of me knows that I’ll never be able to accept it. It simply gets worse with age. Period.
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Michael_Saint
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May I ask, Gertie, why this was the case?
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Michael_Saint
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Yes, and if God doesn’t provide you with a spouse in your own timetable, he will GIVE YOU THE GRACE to be “celibate” until He places that person in your life.
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Michael_Saint
Guest
My response:
First of all, I was not denying free will. We must do our part as well. If God wants us to be married, we can still miss this call based on what WE do or do not do.
Second, if we do all the right things and it still doesn’t happen, it is obviously NOT God’s will. How can you say otherwise? Talk about “theologically inaccurate”. Your implications about God in this statement are mind-boggling.
Third, if a person “discerns” he cannot handle lifelong celibacy, and if God does not provide that person with a spouse, He will provide that person with the GRACE to live it.
Fourth, the “stop looking” and “your spouse will be dropped in your lap” is the Christian way. Ever read the Bible and the Lives of the Saints?
a. 1 Timothy 2:12 does not mean what you say it means (otherwise, how would Catherine of Siena have been able to go to Rome, chide the Pope, and convince him to return to Rome?). When it says “teach” and “have authority over man”, it means “official teaching” (ie. Magisterial), and ecclesial authority (ie. priestly and episcopal authority). It is a statement that bars women from the priesthood, not from opening their mouths whatsoever.
b. It doesn’t breed indecision and complacency. If Miss Right ended up in my lap tomorrow, I’d be wheeling her up, and in a year’s time, be more than ready to send out the invites, book the Church, and book up all my Thursday evenings for marriage prep. And it is not that I am making myself “unavailable”. Over the past 3 years, I have met a number of beautiful young Catholic girls, and I even pursued 2 of them - but they turned me down, and God willed this b/c it was either not the right girl or the right timing.
c. I would tell a good Catholic to look for marriage - but you know where I would tell him / her to look? I would tell them to look for a partner IN GOD. Go to God in the Blessed Sacrament, in your brothers and sisters, in works of charity, etc. etc., and the further you go into “God”, the more likely you will be able to find a man / woman of God.
I know, these are deep spiritual truths that require faith. Norseman, I have read many of your posts, and I am not sure you have progressed enough in this virtue to see this. That is why we can argue this for years and not come to a resolution. I will pray for you.
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Norseman82
Guest
It is a good thing you never went on to be ordained.
Where in the Bible or catechism does it say that God picks your spouse for you? What is the basis of this theologically suspect statement?
We are responsible for our choice of spouses. If we cannot handle celibacy, the bible does not say to wait until God drops one in your lap - in fact, 1 Corinthians 7 tells a person to get married (I’m paraphrasing here, but the point is clear if you read it). And 2 Corinthians (I think it is chapter 6) warns us not to be unequally yoked to nonbelievers, and CCC 2230 refers to parents not exerting pressure on their children in their choice of spouses. So, if it is all up to God in providing us a spouse, then why in the world would His word and the catechism of the Church He founded offer us counsel on our choice of spouses? THINK MAN THINK, WILLYA?
Again, it is easy to blame it all on “God’s will” or “what’s meant to be” in order to escape personal responsibility and accountability for our own actions (or being too lazy or gutless by not sticking up for people who have been shafted, like the jilted virgins I referenced in my previous post).
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Norseman82
Guest
So it’s God’s will the Holocaust happened?
No, before we blame it on God we must look at the human factor. If one wrongs another and another suffers, I do not see it as God’s will; it due to someone reneging on the faith. Read Sirach 15:31:
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Norseman82
Guest
HOW DARE YOU JUDGE MY FAITH!
I’d like to see you lose your entire immediate family before high school and practically raise yourself and make something of yourself and save it for marriage only to watch the fornicators steal the virgins you have earned while you have to put TV dinners in the oven for Christmas dinner. Walk a mile in my shoes before judging me - until then,
SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE!
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chicago
Guest
Dude, that excerpt totally rocks!
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LittleDeb
Guest
This is such excellent advice. You said what I would say as a been there, frustrated, done that/ now happily married person.
I was glad when I overcame looking for wedding rings too!
While God doesn’t choose our spouse He knows who it will be. As I sat spinning my wheels knowing I had done what God asked of me I wondered what was up. Well, my husband had one thing left to do before we could meet. He had to quit smoking. I am deathly allergic. If we had met and then he quit, it would not have worked. He had to quit for himself.
We learned that we had actually met once before. It was not the right time for us. It was something my husband did while we were dating that reminded me we had already met.
Oh and he wasn’t Catholic when I met him.
Gertabelle: awesome advice. I would only add to pray for your spouse with the same fervor as you would if you already knew who he was.
God bless you in your search!
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auscatholic
Guest
I’ve been following this thread for quite a while and thought l’d make my first post here.
Norseman82, whilst Michael Saint’s recent reply to your post may have concluded somewhat condescendingly, intentional or not, l don’t think that warrants your barrage of Caps-Lock.
I honestly empathise with the personal situation that you have described, but l can’t help but say that your last post reads, to me at least, as if you think that someone owes you big time.
For example, “only to watch the fornicators steal the virgins you have earned”. What do you mean by “earned”? That comes across as quite bitter and angry to me, and could be the basis for a relationship based on something other than love.
I’m not going to set myself up as some kind of pop-psychologist, but l think there’s a few things that need to be set straight here.
First, fornicators are still your brothers and sisters in Christ. Second, whilst virginity is beautiful, a person does not become second-rate by losing it. I presume you didn’t mean the opposite, but l imagine there’s a lot decent and holy people on these forums who used to fall in both categories, and what you wrote isn’t doing them any favours. Nor, for that matter, does it do a whole lot for those people who are still lost and have come here looking for answers or guidance.
I am genuinely interested to see reasoned examples of what you think are signs that one could not handle the celibate life. I can think of a few obvious ones which, if they were to provide the motivation for one discerning the vocation of marriage, could have disastrous consequences.
I think l have an OK handle on the difference between chastity and celibacy. That is, one can be chaste without being celibate, but not celibate without first being chaste. So, chastity first, celibacy second. But the way you use the word “handle” sometimes in relation to the concept of celibacy feels awkward in the sense that you may be inadvertently encouraging people to see marriage as a cop-out rather than a calling.
I know you don’t mean it that way, but that’s how it comes across to me sometimes. I am not denying or downplaying the sexual element of marriage, but to put one’s call to marriage down to an inability to handle celibacy is selling marriage short of what it’s all about, at least in my opinion. It’s like negative discernment, which feels kind of oxymoronic. It has its place, but it is also has its limits.
In summary, l understand where you’re coming from, but l think there more charitable and insightful ways of reaching the same conclusions.
Norseman82, whilst Michael Saint’s recent reply to your post may have concluded somewhat condescendingly, intentional or not, l don’t think that warrants your barrage of Caps-Lock.
I honestly empathise with the personal situation that you have described, but l can’t help but say that your last post reads, to me at least, as if you think that someone owes you big time.
For example, “only to watch the fornicators steal the virgins you have earned”. What do you mean by “earned”? That comes across as quite bitter and angry to me, and could be the basis for a relationship based on something other than love.
I’m not going to set myself up as some kind of pop-psychologist, but l think there’s a few things that need to be set straight here.
First, fornicators are still your brothers and sisters in Christ. Second, whilst virginity is beautiful, a person does not become second-rate by losing it. I presume you didn’t mean the opposite, but l imagine there’s a lot decent and holy people on these forums who used to fall in both categories, and what you wrote isn’t doing them any favours. Nor, for that matter, does it do a whole lot for those people who are still lost and have come here looking for answers or guidance.
I am genuinely interested to see reasoned examples of what you think are signs that one could not handle the celibate life. I can think of a few obvious ones which, if they were to provide the motivation for one discerning the vocation of marriage, could have disastrous consequences.
I think l have an OK handle on the difference between chastity and celibacy. That is, one can be chaste without being celibate, but not celibate without first being chaste. So, chastity first, celibacy second. But the way you use the word “handle” sometimes in relation to the concept of celibacy feels awkward in the sense that you may be inadvertently encouraging people to see marriage as a cop-out rather than a calling.
I know you don’t mean it that way, but that’s how it comes across to me sometimes. I am not denying or downplaying the sexual element of marriage, but to put one’s call to marriage down to an inability to handle celibacy is selling marriage short of what it’s all about, at least in my opinion. It’s like negative discernment, which feels kind of oxymoronic. It has its place, but it is also has its limits.
In summary, l understand where you’re coming from, but l think there more charitable and insightful ways of reaching the same conclusions.
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