Finding a Wife

[Xantippe]

Havard said:

“I’d wager that wouldn’t have been the case throughout most of history. Society infantilizes people in their teens and twenties now, as the notions and norms of youth keep getting extended for all generations.”

Although early marriage for young women has been the norm historically, it has been the norm for young men to wait until they have a home of their own to offer a bride before marrying. Note that in Jane Austen, her heroines range from 18 to 27ish (which is pretty close to an old maid in that book), while the heroes tend to be roughly mid-20ish and up (Mr. Knightly from Emma is 30-something, I think). There was a blip of fairly early marriage for both sexes in the 1950s in the US, but it was an anomaly. Have a look at this.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States#Average_Age_at_Marriage

In 1890, the average age of marriage for men was 26, while the average age at marriage for women was 22. The number declined until 1950 and 1960 to 22.8 for men and 20.3 for women. After that, the numbers for both have been rising to 27.5 for men and 25.6 for women. The pattern is roughly V shaped, although the current numbers have risen a bit past the previous historical norm. I’d say that the current number for men is more or less in keeping with historical norms, while the number for women has risen well above the historical norm. It’s not a huge difference, though–just 3.5 years more than in 1890, despite all the huge social changes that have happened in those 120 years. In any case, the idea of an 18-year-old male marrying and supporting a family with his own labor was definitely an anomaly. Parents of daughters would definitely prefer to see a bit more of a track record–school attended, job landed, money saved, etc.

“The OP doesn’t sound like your average beer-guzzling, XBOX and Family Guy-addicted (or whatever’s popular now) man-child. Hurray for that, and may his tribe increase.”

He’s making a good start, but it’s just a start. He has a lot of stuff to do before he will be ready to support a family.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Hello Community,

As some of you might know, I posted a while back about my future wife.

Well, now I’m 18 and in college, and I’ve grown a lot, spiritually, since coming to college. Well, as you would expect, I’ve started looking for a wife, but I’m having a very difficult time connecting with anyone here. I don’t read social clues very well. I’m going to a small, orthodox Catholic college, and the students are really nice and spiritual, but I still feel a kind of perennial shallowness among the people. Again, they are very nice; they’re not bad people at all. But the lack of seriousness is really bothersome.

So I’m very lonely here, very lonely, I repeat, since I have no real friends among my peers here. I mean to say this with all humility, but, I know that I’m very smart. Everyone tells me that, and it is a blessing. The reason, though, is that especially in high school, where the drug problem and everything was so severe, I basically had to turn my back to the school (not in a hostile way, but I was the only really devout Catholic on the campus), and as a consequence, I have no idea about what others think of me, really.

Another problem I seem to have, is that I have a very austere spirituality. I fast regularly, I don’t masturbate or look at pornography or anything. It’s sad that people often don’t believe that it really is possible for a young male my age to that. I really want to marry very soon, and I do look forward to having children. Also, I really want to own a farm or something that requires physical work (I know, odd). I have no taste for mundane things, like movies or modern movies.

First, say a prayer for me, that God may provide me a wife without delay.

Second, are there any pretty young women my age who want the same?

Graduate from college, live on your own and in the working world for a few years then think about marriage seriously. That would be the advice I’d give a younger brother or my own sister your age.

 

[Havard]

Havard said:

“I’d wager that wouldn’t have been the case throughout most of history. Society infantilizes people in their teens and twenties now, as the notions and norms of youth keep getting extended for all generations.”

Although early marriage for young women has been the norm historically, it has been the norm for young men to wait until they have a home of their own to offer a bride before marrying. Note that in Jane Austen, her heroines range from 18 to 27ish (which is pretty close to an old maid in that book), while the heroes tend to be roughly mid-20ish and up (Mr. Knightly from Emma is 30-something, I think). There was a blip of fairly early marriage for both sexes in the 1950s in the US, but it was an anomaly. Have a look at this.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States#Average_Age_at_Marriage

In 1890, the average age of marriage for men was 26, while the average age at marriage for women was 22. The number declined until 1950 and 1960 to 22.8 for men and 20.3 for women. After that, the numbers for both have been rising to 27.5 for men and 25.6 for women. The pattern is roughly V shaped, although the current numbers have risen a bit past the previous historical norm. I’d say that the current number for men is more or less in keeping with historical norms, while the number for women has risen well above the historical norm. It’s not a huge difference, though–just 3.5 years more than in 1890, despite all the huge social changes that have happened in those 120 years. In any case, the idea of an 18-year-old male marrying and supporting a family with his own labor was definitely an anomaly. Parents of daughters would definitely prefer to see a bit more of a track record–school attended, job landed, money saved, etc.

“The OP doesn’t sound like your average beer-guzzling, XBOX and Family Guy-addicted (or whatever’s popular now) man-child. Hurray for that, and may his tribe increase.”

He’s making a good start, but it’s just a start. He has a lot of stuff to do before he will be ready to support a family.

I was talking about societal treatment and expectations of older teens and twenty-somethings, not about marriage specifically.

Whether people marry at 19 or 29, these days, I don’t see particularly high expectations either way. Just recently, a 30 y/o acquaintance was relating to me about how many people threw up (due to over-intoxication) at her wedding reception, including a member of the wedding party, in their limousine. I tried to be polite during her telling of the story, apparently she thought it was funny…

 

[on_the_hill]

First of all, I’m not going to read all the posts.

Second of all, I don’t know whether or not to take the OP seriously enough to form a response.

Third of all—Dude, at 18 you have no clue whatsoever about life, the universe, and everything. (That’s why the draft age is 18 and not 40).

As for Matt. 6:25-34, I just have two things to say: The Lord helps them who help themselves; and I dare you to take that approach to your studies and see how long you stay in college.

 

[1AugustSon7]

Hello Community,

As some of you might know, I posted a while back about my future wife.

Well, now I’m 18 and in college, and I’ve grown a lot, spiritually, since coming to college. Well, as you would expect, I’ve started looking for a wife, but I’m having a very difficult time connecting with anyone here. I don’t read social clues very well. I’m going to a small, orthodox Catholic college, and the students are really nice and spiritual, but I still feel a kind of perennial shallowness among the people. Again, they are very nice; they’re not bad people at all. But the lack of seriousness is really bothersome.

So I’m very lonely here, very lonely, I repeat, since I have no real friends among my peers here. I mean to say this with all humility, but, I know that I’m very smart. Everyone tells me that, and it is a blessing. The reason, though, is that especially in high school, where the drug problem and everything was so severe, I basically had to turn my back to the school (not in a hostile way, but I was the only really devout Catholic on the campus), and as a consequence, I have no idea about what others think of me, really.

Another problem I seem to have, is that I have a very austere spirituality. I fast regularly, I don’t masturbate or look at pornography or anything. It’s sad that people often don’t believe that it really is possible for a young male my age to that. I really want to marry very soon, and I do look forward to having children. Also, I really want to own a farm or something that requires physical work (I know, odd). I have no taste for mundane things, like movies or modern movies.

First, say a prayer for me, that God may provide me a wife without delay.

Second, are there any pretty young women my age who want the same?

Though lonely brother you are never alone. You are included in the “Our” of every “Our Father” of every Christian on earth and in Heaven with our beautiful Lady.

Do not rush for glory, my friend. God loves to tease us and gives it to us only because He loves us.

The Lord be with you.

“Our Father,
Who art in Heaven,
Hallowed-be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses;
As we forgive those who trespass against us;
And lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from evil.”
Amen.

 

[Latinitas]

I was talking about societal treatment and expectations of older teens and twenty-somethings, not about marriage specifically.

Whether people marry at 19 or 29, these days, I don’t see particularly high expectations either way. Just recently, a 30 y/o acquaintance was relating to me about how many people threw up (due to over-intoxication) at her wedding reception, including a member of the wedding party, in their limousine. I tried to be polite during her telling of the story, apparently she thought it was funny…

Sadly, she isn’t the only one. You’re absolutely correct about society infantilizing young adults today. If you expect child-like behavior, that’s going to happen, if you expect adult-like behavior etc.

The OP doesn’t sound like your average beer-guzzling, XBOX and Family Guy-addicted (or whatever’s popular now) man-child. Hurray for that, and may his tribe increase.

Thanks for the compliment, although I cannot claim to be more righteous than anyone. I am the foremost of sinners.

Firstly, you have no right to tell anyone not to post.

True, but they don’t have a right to have me take them seriously, either.

Secondly, if you start a thread in a public forum asking for advice, prayers, you will get advice but not necessarily what you want to hear.

True as well, but I didn’t actually ask for advice. I appreciate it, and I consider it, but I do honestly feel this as a Divine calling (long story behind it), and when God has called, I will not let anyone talk me out of it. Again, however, I do honestly thank everyone for the advice, and I promise you that I have thought about it.

Thirdly, those who respond to you are older and wiser with their experience, don’t just brush away their advice.

First, older does not mean wiser, while the may be correlated, it isn’t perfect correlation. But more importantly, no matter their age, they still aren’t me. It’s not that I’m wiser than they are, but they don’t really know me, except by these posts, whereas I know myself, well, like I know myself (not as well as God knows me, of course). I sincerely hope, however, that I did not give the impression that I’m brushing aside anyone’s advice. I seriously have given consideration to nearly every post here.

With charity, I would advise not to speak about your high intelligence, etc when socialising, trying to make friends, meeting women to find your future wife. I would give that same advice to a child of mine.

It nearly killed me to say I was smart here. It’s not that I go around saying this, it’s something I’ve been told by many people. I couldn’t agree more with this advice.

I wish you the best in life. May God guide you and bless you.

Thanks!

OP, from reading what you have written so far, you remind me so much of my husband who is an aspie! I hope I can offer you some helpful ideas. Regardless, know I will keep you in my prayers.

As far as being border-aspie, despite what many people say it is possible to have a wonderful marriage with someone who is. I wouldn’t change a thing about my husband! I would have found it helpful if my husband would have explained to me that he was an aspie early on in our relationship. A lot of misunderstandings could have been avoided. Also, we have found that he has made a lot of progress socially/with social cues the longer we have been together as we both “get” each other in a way that no one else does. This seems to make it much easier to explain social cues.

I firmly believe that what age you are ready for marriage should be between you, your future wife, and God. No one else. I say this as someone who was very serious about marriage at 18. I met my husband at 19 and we both just knew that this was the person God had chosen for us within several weeks of dating. I know this isn’t most people’s experience but it was ours. We listened to what everyone else said instead of really praying about it and didn’t marry until we were almost 24. While we do have a very successful, happy, and stable marriage, I firmly believe this is in spite of us waiting so long to get married. I am not saying you would do that; it sounds like you have a much better head on your shoulders than I did at 18.

God Bless

P.s. have you prayed the miracle rosary novena? Maybe ask your spiritual director if it would be good for you? Just a thought.

I cannot thank you enough for the encouragement. Thanks very much!

Benedicat Deus
Latinitas

 

[CatholicUser777]

I highly recommend praying the 54 Day Irresistible Rosary Novena.

Here is a link for it:

knightsofdivinemercy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/54_Day_Novena_Rosary.pdf

It is very powerful. You could ask the Blessed Mother to help find you a wife (maybe not necessarily right away, but within the next few years maybe). Also ask her to send the Holy Spirit to enlighten you about what to do.

Everybody and their grandmother knows that the Rosary is exceptionally powerful so that’s why this novena which is the Rosary for 54 days in a row is super duper effective. You can’t go wrong by saying it. Give it a try

 

[Joseph73]

Patience is a virtue.

If marriage is your vocation and you follow God’s will, he will give you a wife. It may not be as quick as you would like, but rest assured that He will provide.

All the rest is just a bunch of talk.

Just conform yourself to God’s will and discover what he wants for your life. Maybe He wants you to farm, but maybe He DOES want you to have that professional job. The point is, it’s not for you to decide. Don’t think you know better than God when you have not yet discerned His will for you. Pray to put it into God’s hands, and go to sleep every night with a clear mind.

You may want to take a look at Ignatian discernment- it could really be of benefit to you.

 

[freiabereinsam]

Why is everyone discouraging this young man? I personally like his goals a lot! He’s doing the right thing and having an eye on marriage and family while his peers are hooking up and partying until deciding to “settle down” at the age of 30. Alas, he is answered–in a Catholic circle no less–by most people with laughter and a slap in the face.

 

[Xantippe]

freiabereinsam said:

“Why is everyone discouraging this young man? I personally like his goals a lot!”

His ultimate goals are fine. However:

1. He is underestimating the difficulty of what he wants to do.
2. He is undervaluing the positive aspects of his current station in life.
3. He is underestimating the importance of his future wife’s role in his having a good marriage. He was stating that all he had to do to have a good marriage was to keep his vows, and that would be good enough. There wasn’t a strong enough sense that his having a good marriage would depend just as much on his wife, and that there is more to being married than just keeping your vows. I can not commit adultery all day long and still be a bad wife to my husband.
4. He currently has problems with relating to his peer group and social skills. Marriage is the Everest of social skills, and Latinitas has not made it up the bunny slope yet.
5. He is in a hurry.
6. He is lonely.
7. He has just started college a couple months ago.
8. He is a fairly new convert. It is spiritually so difficult to be a new parent and to spend church wrangling small children. It is so much harder to read a book from end to end with small children around (these days I do practically all my book reading in the bathroom a page or so at a time). There is no reason to rush marriage and parenthood right now when it would be so much better to spend that time really soaking in his faith, reading, and growing. He will never have a better chance to do this until his children are grown, and if he does it now, his children (rather than his grandchildren) will have the benefit of it.

 

[Latinitas]

freiabereinsam said:

“Why is everyone discouraging this young man? I personally like his goals a lot!”

His ultimate goals are fine. However:

1. He is underestimating the difficulty of what he wants to do.
2. He is undervaluing the positive aspects of his current station in life.
3. He is underestimating the importance of his future wife’s role in his having a good marriage. He was stating that all he had to do to have a good marriage was to keep his vows, and that would be good enough. There wasn’t a strong enough sense that his having a good marriage would depend just as much on his wife, and that there is more to being married than just keeping your vows. I can not commit adultery all day long and still be a bad wife to my husband.
4. He currently has problems with relating to his peer group and social skills. Marriage is the Everest of social skills, and Latinitas has not made it up the bunny slope yet.
5. He is in a hurry.
6. He is lonely.
7. He has just started college a couple months ago.
8. He is a fairly new convert. It is spiritually so difficult to be a new parent and to spend church wrangling small children. It is so much harder to read a book from end to end with small children around (these days I do practically all my book reading in the bathroom a page or so at a time). There is no reason to rush marriage and parenthood right now when it would be so much better to spend that time really soaking in his faith, reading, and growing. He will never have a better chance to do this until his children are grown, and if he does it now, his children (rather than his grandchildren) will have the benefit of it.

No offense, Xantippe, but your views of young adults are presumptuous and arrogant. What is/was difficult for you may or not be difficult for other youth, and what was easy for you might not be easy for others. Having stumbbled across your advice on other forums, I can say that you definitely are wise, indeed wiser than I, but your attitude towards the young needs a serious adjustment. Consider I Timothy 4:12.

Until I see a willingness to see me and other young adults really as adults, your comments will be peremptorily ignored.

With all respect and charity, and certainly my prayers,
Benedicat Deus
Latinitas

 

[on_the_hill]

Until I see a willingness to see me and other young adults really as adults, your comments will be peremptorily ignored.

With all respect and charity, and certainly my prayers,
Benedicat Deus
Latinitas

When I was 20, my father was the most foolish man I’d ever met. By the time I was 40, I was amazed at how much he had learned.

 

[Latinitas]

When I was 20, my father was the most foolish man I’d ever met. By the time I was 40, I was amazed at how much he had learned.

There are two ways of reading this:

Firstly, that your father was foolish, and then grew in wisdom.

Secondly, that your father seemed to be foolish, then you realized that he was wise.

Considering your last post here, I assume you mean the latter, of which I can reply:

I never said any of you sounded foolish. But if, as Xantippe herself says, she cannot say 18-year old man with a straight face, sees all of us as sex-craven emancipated children, and has such temerity as to tell me what I know and don’t know when she herself barely knows me, then that without doubt merits reproof. Again, the advice is welcome (although not what was originally asked); the condescension is not.

I want to make it clear that I am honestly not angry with anyone at all, and I say everything with all charity and humility, and I beg your (and everyone’s) forgiveness if it appears that I have not,
Benedicat Deus
Latinitas

 

[Xantippe]

Latinitas said:

“What is/was difficult for you may or not be difficult for other youth, and what was easy for you might not be easy for others.”

Rarely does one ever hear anybody, of any age, rave about how easy it is to have a toddler and an infant, or three kids under five. There are so many posts in this forum from parents of young families who married much later than you hope to, and yet they and their marriages are cracking under the pressure of their family commitments and their economic burdens. What makes you think you and your future wife will be stronger or more virtuous than them? The good news is that with persistence, it is possible to get past those early crises (my oldest kids are now 11 and 8 and they love playing with their baby sister and it’s AMAZING). The bad news is that a lot of couples do not make it through unscathed–they “fall out of love” and struggle or divorce or one spouse or the other decides that NFP “doesn’t work” for them and gets sterilized, etc. There are several threads like that every day here and they are all very sad. I suggest you read those (as well as the ones from mothers struggling to bring up growing families) and reflect on them as you look for your future wife.

I suspect that you are an introvert and that family life will have special difficulties for you: lack of privacy, lack of leisure, lack of peace of quiet, lack of downtime to just be alone and not have everybody (boss, wife, kids, the school that you are finally returning to after realizing you need more income to support the kids you keep having) pulling you in half a dozen directions.

The verse I always quote in this context is Luke 14:28-30 where, in a somewhat different context, Jesus says, “For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not first sit down and estimate the cost, to see whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it will begin to ridicule him, saying, ‘This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.’”

If you decide to get married somewhere in your early 20s (which is still young these days) to a young woman the same age who is prudent, hard-working, devout and conscientious, I would be the very last person to object. I got married at 22 (nearly 23) to somebody I had known for less than a year (he was 25) and we had our first kid when I was 27, and I have no regrets at all. By that time, I had graduated college, lived independently and been economically independent for three years, lived abroad and taught high school for two years, and done a year of graduate school. My husband had finished one doctorate and was just starting his second.

“Consider I Timothy 4:12.”

St. Paul would be the last person to encourage you to rush into marriage. Consider 1 Corinthians 7.

“Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.”

“32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.”

“But if, as Xantippe herself says, she cannot say 18-year old man with a straight face, sees all of us as sex-craven emancipated children, and has such temerity as to tell me what I know and don’t know when she herself barely knows me, then that without doubt merits reproof. Again, the advice is welcome (although not what was originally asked); the condescension is not.”

I myself had many adult responsibilities at a young age. I am the oldest of three children, I ran my family’s household when my mother had cancer when I was 15, I spent summers during my teens helping to build my family’s store (including painting the exterior by headlights), I skipped 8th grade and 12th grade, I graduated from college just before I turned 20, and I taught high school abroad starting at 20, etc. I know all about taking on responsibilities at an early age and I’m all for teenagers working and having lots of responsibilities. However, having a family of one’s own is qualitatively quite different. The cost of failure is so very high for the husband and wife, the children, their extended family, their friends, and society at large, that I have to encourage patience. Just a few years more maturation will substantially increase your chances of success.

 

[Xantippe]

Social skills are key to being successful with having a happy marriage and family, and you yourself say that this is a weakness of yours. It is one of the great projects of one’s teens and 20s to make friends, to learn how to evaluate and read people, to figure out who is trustworthy, to learn give and take, etc. This is an important precursor to marriage and there are huge risks to skimping on it and skimping on courtship. It is, for example, not uncommon for men with Aspie tendencies to manage to sweep a woman off her feet, quickly marry her before she has a chance to figure out his peculiarities, and then be cold/distant/very difficult to deal with for the rest of their marriage, however long it may last. (I say that as somebody who has some Aspie tendencies of my own and a child with a diagnosis.)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=818572&highlight=asperger+marriage

 

[Xantippe]

There’s an article here I suggest reading. The subject requires more extensive study, but it’s a good jumping off place.

psychologytoday.com/blog/spectrum-solutions/201006/what-everybody-ought-know-about-aspergers-and-marriage

“An individual with AS has challenges understanding or predicting the consequences of his/her behavior on others. Therefore, the Aspergers partner may see the NT partner as irrational or illogical.”

Your use of the term “logical” to describe yourself was a bit of a red flag to me. You may think of what you want as “logical” and your future wife’s desires as “illogical”. This is not a recipe for a happy marriage.

“NT women especially tend to want their partners to understand them and their feelings. However, they need to realize that this is something they may not be able to get from their AS partner.”

It can be very sad and lonely to be married to somebody with the emotional limitations of an Aspie.

“AS men in particular may find conflict almost intolerable.”

I would add, “and/or are often very rigid.”

“AS adults often may have a very difficult time hearing negative emotions expressed by their partner. They may refuse to communicate, but then end up lashing out in a very hurtful way later on.”

I would add here–they may have an especially hard time dealing with the noise and chaos generated by children. We have an older relative who (while undiagnosed) is quite likely on the autistic spectrum and somewhat OCD. In theory, he loves kids and values large families. In practice, while he is superb one-on-one with children, he has a terrible time dealing with the noise, mess and chaos that even two relatively well-behaved older kids generate, and it’s better not to inflict two kids on him for long periods of time.

As I said, anybody who has an unusual neurological makeup (which you do) is going to need a lot of extra support and time in order to form a successful marriage and family. There will need to be a lot of adjustments and compromises along the way.

 

[Latinitas]

There’s an article here I suggest reading. The subject requires more extensive study, but it’s a good jumping off place.

psychologytoday.com/blog/spectrum-solutions/201006/what-everybody-ought-know-about-aspergers-and-marriage

“An individual with AS has challenges understanding or predicting the consequences of his/her behavior on others. Therefore, the Aspergers partner may see the NT partner as irrational or illogical.”

Your use of the term “logical” to describe yourself was a bit of a red flag to me. You may think of what you want as “logical” and your future wife’s desires as “illogical”. This is not a recipe for a happy marriage.

“NT women especially tend to want their partners to understand them and their feelings. However, they need to realize that this is something they may not be able to get from their AS partner.”

It can be very sad and lonely to be married to somebody with the emotional limitations of an Aspie.

“AS men in particular may find conflict almost intolerable.”

I would add, “and/or are often very rigid.”

“AS adults often may have a very difficult time hearing negative emotions expressed by their partner. They may refuse to communicate, but then end up lashing out in a very hurtful way later on.”

I would add here–they may have an especially hard time dealing with the noise and chaos generated by children. We have an older relative who (while undiagnosed) is quite likely on the autistic spectrum and somewhat OCD. In theory, he loves kids and values large families. In practice, while he is superb one-on-one with children, he has a terrible time dealing with the noise, mess and chaos that even two relatively well-behaved older kids generate, and it’s better not to inflict two kids on him for long periods of time.

As I said, anybody who has an unusual neurological makeup (which you do) is going to need a lot of extra support and time in order to form a successful marriage and family. There will need to be a lot of adjustments and compromises along the way.

Xantippe,

I hear a prophet of doom speaking from you. I don’t mean this offensively, but it is imperative that you realize that statistics about human behavior, while interesting, cannot, I repeat, cannot be applied to individuals with free wills.

I feel that if Peter had come to you, saying, “I heard this man say ‘Come, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men’”, you would have been like “you need to go to college, learn theology, study the scriptures, study pastoral theology…”.

Consider this.

With all charity,
Benedicat Deus
Latinitas

 

[Xantippe]

Latinitas said:

“I hear a prophet of doom speaking from you.”

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but that it’s hard, and it takes a lot of time to get right, and there’s constant room for improvement.

Every long-time couple has a long list of controversial issues (example: his iffy hygiene, her spending, his video game habit, her Facebook habit, the kids’ diet and grades and bedtime, where to send the kids for school, how much money to spend on a house, how long to host his mother, his phobias, her constant sweat pants and postpartum depression). The question is, do they have a process available to them for resolving disagreements? Do they disagree respectfully and productively? Do they listen to each other? Do they make plans together and stick to them?

“I don’t mean this offensively, but it is imperative that you realize that statistics about human behavior, while interesting, cannot, I repeat, cannot be applied to individuals with free wills.”

The problem is that we are not angelic pure spirits with free wills, but rational animals coping with a bundle of instincts, unruly appetites and psychological quirks. As St. Paul says in Romans 7:

“15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. 17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, 23 but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.”

We cannot assume that we will always be able to think our way into 100% logical, correct decisions and then flawlessly execute them. The mind is a funny thing. Also, two different people, no matter how logical and sensible, will rarely come up with the same answer, particularly if they are of different genders.

“I feel that if Peter had come to you, saying, “I heard this man say ‘Come, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men’”, you would have been like “you need to go to college, learn theology, study the scriptures, study pastoral theology…”.”

Actually, I would probably have pointed out to him that he is a family man, and he has responsibilities to his family and should at least check in with his wife. (Assuming that he had a wife and children, rather than simply being a widower.) I would be against him going to college in Catholic theology, if he had family responsibilities and was taking out student loans, particularly in view of typical salaries for graduates in pastoral theology.

 

[on_the_hill]

I have a friend who felt very much the same way you do. After years of frustrations, he finally found his bride, and they have a bouncing baby boy now.
Don’t give up, and be open to possibilities.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’ve done this for four years with my grandmother. So yes, I can.

I was joking with Xantippe. She got it. This was not directed to you.