Finding God and Salvation

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ZenFred

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Hello,

According to Paul, God is found only fully found thru faith in Christ and according to Catholic teaching the church is the best and most complete expression of God’s ministry on earth. Likewise Christianity as a whole and the Catholic Church in particular is the “fullest and surest means of salvation since it is based on the Pascal Mystery of the Son of God.” (Quoting Michael Mayo in a earlier thread). In other words Christianity claims to be the best way to find and be found and be saved by God.

Obviously a religion would usually claim to be the best or else people wouldn’t follow it. Naturally other religions also claim to be the best instead. Christianity, modern Judaism, and Islam all claim their faith is the truest expression of faith in God and the best means of salvation. How can we verify any of this? What criteria would you use to objectively tell as much possible where God could best be found?

-Fred
 
God’s objective call is to you subjectively.

He will prove it through Holy Spirit fruits and fellowship if that is not obstructed by anyone.
 
Only Christianity claims to have witnessed a public miracle: The Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

No other religion comes close to this…
 
PluniaZ said:
Only Christianity claims to have witnessed a public miracle: The Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

No other religion comes close to this…
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Judaism claims that the entire nation witnessed the giving of the Torah at Sinai and they say theirs is the only religion to have a revelation to thousands at one time.

Muslims say the Quran itself is a miracle given its unsurpassed beauty amoung the people.

Muslims and Jews give many example of public miracles such as Moses overcoming the sorcerers of Pharo.

Not that what you say didn’t happen but there isn’t objective evidence nor is it a unique claim.
 
Christianity is not supposed to be about who’s got the best religion. Christianity is about who has the best savior. After examining the biblical evidence as to the person of Christ, I came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ is better than Moses, Abraham, Muhammad, Gandhi and so many others.
 
tgGodsway said:
Christianity is not supposed to be about who’s got the best religion. Christianity is about who has the best savior. After examining the biblical evidence as to the person of Christ, I came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ is better than Moses, Abraham, Muhammad, Gandhi and so many others.
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But in Judaism and Islam, Moses and Muhammad are not saviors, only prophets/messengers. God saves us.

In Therevada Buddhism, at least, the Buddha is not a God but a mortal “the tagathata” that realized the true nature of reality and suffering and “unlocked” dharma, the teaching of escape from samsara (the cycle of rebirth and suffering). We save ourselves by practicing dharma.
 
Agreed they are not savior. But they do show the way to salvation as they see it. After studying the holy bible I came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ is God come in flesh. He is the creator of all things, yet He took on human form and died a sinner’s death to pay for the penalty of sin. You can decided for yourself if any other prophet made such claims and was witnessed by hundreds and today, billions.

tgGodsway
 
I left one import thing out. Jesus Christ knows who you are and loves you without measure. He will receive you to Himself and give you eternal life if and when you can accept Him as God eternal.
 
ZenFred said:
Judaism claims that the entire nation witnessed the giving of the Torah at Sinai and they say theirs is the only religion to have a revelation to thousands at one time.

Muslims say the Quran itself is a miracle given its unsurpassed beauty amoung the people.

Muslims and Jews give many example of public miracles such as Moses overcoming the sorcerers of Pharo.

Not that what you say didn’t happen but there isn’t objective evidence nor is it a unique claim.
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Christians agree with the miracles of Moses. We are continuing the religion of Moses in its correct form.

But even Moses wasn’t publicly executed only to rise again. Nor was Mohammed. The Resurrection far surpasses the claims of any other religion.
 
ZenFred said:
the best means of salvation.
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Judaism doesn’t accept the Christian concept of ‘salvation’. It’s not that we think others are not ‘saved’ while we are, we don’t think anybody needs to be. 🙂
 
I agree with PlumiaZ The resurrection of Jesus Christ is by far the greatest miracle over death the human race has ever seen.

I’m not sure what Kaninchen is saying. Judaism in it’s current form covers up the teachings of the Torah and other books that point to the coming Messiah, that is Jesus the eternal Son. But again I’m not sure what Kaninchen’s point was.
 
Kaninchen said:
Judaism doesn’t accept the Christian concept of ‘salvation’. It’s not that we think others are not ‘saved’ while we are, we don’t think anybody needs to be. 🙂
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Shalom!

Agreed, it’s tricky to say “saved” which is a definitely Christian concept in Judaism. Judaism doesn’t accept original sin or total depravity. Still some people go to the world to come (faithful Jews and Noahides and moral Gentiles), while others presumably do not due to their wicked deeds.

I was a noahide and studied Hassidic Judaism for a while. I suppose since I’m a non-trinitarian I’m still a noahide.
 
tgGodsway said:
I agree with PlumiaZ The resurrection of Jesus Christ is by far the greatest miracle over death the human race has ever seen.

I’m not sure what Kaninchen is saying. Judaism in it’s current form covers up the teachings of the Torah and other books that point to the coming Messiah, that is Jesus the eternal Son. But again I’m not sure what Kaninchen’s point was.
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It tends to be best if Christians, when describing some aspect of Judaism, talk about what Jews actually believe/do/whatever rather than inventing a Judaism that suits their argument.

Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus and Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus - they’re two very different religions.

My point is that when people talk about ‘salvation’, they should be aware that we don’t share Christian beliefs on the subject at all.
 
ZenFred said:
Shalom!

Agreed, it’s tricky to say “saved” which is a definitely Christian concept in Judaism. Judaism doesn’t accept original sin or total depravity. Still some people go to the world to come (faithful Jews and Noahides and moral Gentiles), while others presumably do not due to their wicked deeds.

I was a noahide and studied Hassidic Judaism for a while. I suppose since I’m a non-trinitarian I’m still a noahide.
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Just wanted to make sure that those that don’t appreciate that difference (there will still be veterans of conversations over the years around, of course 🙂 ) bear it in mind.
 
Kaninchen said:
Just wanted to make sure that those that don’t appreciate that difference (there will still be veterans of conversations over the years around, of course 🙂 ) bear it in mind.
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I’m curious as to what your thoughts would be of where I’m going with all of this. I think based on my experience and studying with multiple faiths that God is fully present in all three abrahamic faiths and to God there is no distinction. In my multiple, indecisive conversions I felt God and His relationship with me was always a constant. Only my own self-identity and the views of others changed. My parents for example were unhappy and worried about me when I stopped being Buddhist and became a noahide. They would have hated to know I started secretly studying the Quran. They were relieved when I came back to the church. God never changed.
 
ZenFred said:
I’m curious as to what your thoughts would be of where I’m going with all of this. I think based on my experience and studying with multiple faiths that God is fully present in all three abrahamic faiths and to God there is no distinction. In my multiple, indecisive conversions I felt God and His relationship with me was always a constant. Only my own self-identity and the views of others changed. My parents for example were unhappy and worried about me when I stopped being Buddhist and became a noahide. They would have hated to know I started secretly studying the Quran. They were relieved when I came back to the church. God never changed.
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Ah, as you might expect from a Jew, your focus should be:

He has told you, O man, what is good,
And what the LORD requires of you:
Only to do justice
And to love goodness.
And to walk modestly with your God;
Then will your name achieve wisdom.
Micah 6:8
 
Kaninchen said:
Ah, as you might expect from a Jew, your focus should be:

He has told you, O man, what is good,
And what the LORD requires of you:
Only to do justice
And to love goodness.
And to walk modestly with your God;
Then will your name achieve wisdom.
Micah 6:8
Click to expand...
🙂
My focus is Hear oh Israel, the Lord is your God, the lord is one. Love God with all your heart, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

I suspect you may be familiar with that 🙂
 
I’m not convinced that Islam is the true religion. One of the most famous passages in the Qur’an is surah 2:256, which says that there is no compulsion in religion. Muhammad contradicted that teaching when he said that anyone who leaves Islam should be killed (and that’s in Sahih al-Bukhari, which is the most authentic collection of Hadith in the Sunni school of thought).

Muhammad also said that women are deficient in terms of their intelligence and religiosity, which I find rather repulsive.
 
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