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underacloud
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So does he at least acknowledge the potential problem if he dies?
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VBN55
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Someone said in an earlier post NO child can force their parent to leave them everything. This is true, so I can not place all the blame on these children. My husband surely knows how to say NO to me therefore Im sure if this was something he did not want to do, he would not have followed through with it and even if he did he would change it after seven years of marriage. PS we dated 4 years before we were married.I didn’t mean to condemn you. You know how a certain prospect makes you feel, and that is OK. I meant that you would not feel entitled to treat the OP as she has been treated. Your feelings would be totally understandable, yet they would not be a reason for your mom not to marry. If she married someone and you decided you couldn’t like him, that would be your issue to deal with, just as your parents would have a moral duty to deal with whoever you decided to marry that they might or might not happen to have liked.
As for what parents “know”…that also doesn’t make their feelings act a certain way. Their feelings are what they are, and adults, both parents and children, have to learn to adjust how they feel to the actual hand that life deals to them. Even young children who get the very hard lesson that sometimes parents die and sometimes widowed parents remarry have to learn to accept that.
You are right, though: there is no guarantee that her husband’s children will ever get that, not even if they are otherwise nice people. Feelings are like that, sometimes. We also don’t even know if any of this has the least thing to do with their mother. They may have hated their mother and have no interest in anything but not losing a cent of their dad’s wealth to anybody, including their other siblings!! The OP may have married into a family with totally nasty children who think their dad owes them everything his sweat and effort can gather into one place. Attorneys can tell you that such families unfortunately do exist. Either way, whether they are nice but grieving their parent’s relationship or not very nice people trying to grasp money they did nothing to earn, those children are out of her control. Only her actions are in her control, and the less any of us concerns ourselves with things that aren’t in our control, the happier and better off we tend to be. Absolutely, you’re right on about that!
Well, I’ll take that back. Probably, if I were her, I’d have an easier time if I imagined that these were nice people just having a hard time with a hard situation. Maybe it it’s just me, but bad treatment for reasons like that would be much easier for me to endure.
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VBN55
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No, he feels his social security and the 150,000 life insurance will be sufficient. I do own a small condo and it is paid for however there are monthly condo dues, utilities etc. I feel its probably doable but tight and no room for financial problems.
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pnewton
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Okay, maybe a million was too much, but if you believe more is needed, then get it. There should be nothing preventing this act, unless he treats you as a slave with no right to say where money is spent.
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EasterJoy
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Keep in mind, too, that an estate attorney might be able to help your husband leave more to his children by leaving it to them through you.
For instance, let us say that there is a $1 million dollar limit on inheritance before estate taxes kick in. It is possible to use something called a bypass trust that allows you two to put $1 million dollars each to the next generation before estate taxes are due. The trust can be made available to the surviving spouse while the spouse lives, but because the estate is essentially divided in two when one of you dies, twice as much is passed on without estate tax. The terms of the money in the bypass trust cannot be changed after one spouse dies, but you can write the estate plan so that other parts cannot be changed without the consent of both parties, as well.
This allows your husband to leave money available for you to use during your lifetime, but that you can’t leave to your children. What you don’t need has to go to the beneficiaries you agree on before he dies. For instance, you can write the trust so that some amount over $1 million but not over $2 million go into that trust. His children get the rest immediately, and after you die they get the remainder free of inheritance tax. If you needed less than the amount of the tax, they could come out ahead. The attorney can help you decide how to write this so that your heirs would also get your estate free of estate tax.
This is something an estate attorney can tell you about. It is all very complicated and differs from state to state. Suffice it to say, though, that it is theoretically possible for you two to write an estate plan the keeps some of his assets available for your needs in old age but that ensure that anything you don’t use is passed on in a way that cannot be changed after he dies.
Get a good estate attorney. It will be very worth it for everyone.
For instance, let us say that there is a $1 million dollar limit on inheritance before estate taxes kick in. It is possible to use something called a bypass trust that allows you two to put $1 million dollars each to the next generation before estate taxes are due. The trust can be made available to the surviving spouse while the spouse lives, but because the estate is essentially divided in two when one of you dies, twice as much is passed on without estate tax. The terms of the money in the bypass trust cannot be changed after one spouse dies, but you can write the estate plan so that other parts cannot be changed without the consent of both parties, as well.
This allows your husband to leave money available for you to use during your lifetime, but that you can’t leave to your children. What you don’t need has to go to the beneficiaries you agree on before he dies. For instance, you can write the trust so that some amount over $1 million but not over $2 million go into that trust. His children get the rest immediately, and after you die they get the remainder free of inheritance tax. If you needed less than the amount of the tax, they could come out ahead. The attorney can help you decide how to write this so that your heirs would also get your estate free of estate tax.
This is something an estate attorney can tell you about. It is all very complicated and differs from state to state. Suffice it to say, though, that it is theoretically possible for you two to write an estate plan the keeps some of his assets available for your needs in old age but that ensure that anything you don’t use is passed on in a way that cannot be changed after he dies.
Get a good estate attorney. It will be very worth it for everyone.
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VBN55
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Do you feel they should also get everything from this second marriage. Yes I did sign it but things change in life. I had no idea one year later I would have two sons become disabled and a grandchild dropped at my door and lose both my parents in four months of each other. Never did I realize that my successful career end because I had too much on my plate and something had to go. I have become a taxi cab driver for my paraplegic son and now, raising a grandchild and providing for my brain injured son. I realize none of this is my husbands problem or fault but the fact is my financial stability is not the same as it was prior to my signing the prenup. I am not asking for his business, his retirement, his property, his house etc I AM ASKING for something to insure I don’t have to go to work in my 70’sway or be on food stamps because Social Security goes under
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underacloud
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That’s why a finacnial advisor should be invloved. He or she can do some calculations to determine a reasonable figure based on different scenarios. This can then be addressed, if needed, through an increase in insurance or by re-writing the prenup/will.
If necessary, abtain this financial advice independently from him. That would at the very least provide you with a basis for challenging the fairness of the prenup. It would be better to go through this issue together, but you need to take care of your future if your husband will not.
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VBN55
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Something I just thought of…in the prenup it does state that should we chose to buy something together then that would ne considered community property 50/50. The problem is HE has bought everything and has put everything in his name, even at times when I have asked to contribute so it could be in both our names!banes
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VBN55
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Thank you! I have never heard of that but will surely look into it because I believe that is part of his concern that MY kids will get what he leaves to me in lieu of HIS kids and although I have promised that would not happen I feel he does not believe it. Also someone asked earlier how did my kids feel about my husband…they respect him, love him, never forgets his birthday, fathers day etc. He treats my kids ok but they do not meet his expectations but I believe he loves them in his own way.
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EasterJoy
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I would expect him and his side of the family to be very leery about all of this, but if you get the ball rolling by seeing an attorney, I can’t imagine your husband won’t want to be in on it. He has to realize that it is really foolish to be the guy who didn’t talk to an attorney. If not, well, don’t let your children suffer because you let your husband’s sloth keep you from moving ahead with your own estate plan.
In that case–that is, if your husband doesn’t get in on the visits to the attorney–allow your attorney to write an estate plan that is as advantageous as possible to your children and grandchild or grandchildren. Let your husband worry about covering his side of things, if you die first. None of us know what tomorrow will bring; don’t assume you’ll live forever or that there will be a soul in this extended family looking out for your children if you go first. Let your lawyer help you see to it that their interests can be defended in court.
Also, do your children have a plan for what they’re going to do if something happens to you? That sounds like a high priority, too.
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EasterJoy
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The problem is that when you marry the guy, you marry all the relatives. You have to figure out some way to keep a smile on your face every Christmas. These are also the people she may to have to plan a funeral with…which she had better have him do before he dies, to save her from having her grief trampled upon by the “first class” members of his family.Well, you are a better person than me ! I would simply say to myself 'If these people can not see my good qualities, I will just find others to share them with. And that is me
Speaking of, who’s paying for her funeral? Are her DH’s kids going to kick a fit if her husband buys this 2nd wife a casket and a plot in the same state as their mother’s grave?
(OK, EasterJoy, be nice…:tsktsk
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TheRealJuliane
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I also missed my mother very much and by that time, had enough distance (had been out of the house for several years, living my own life) that I could empathize with my dear father. Why should he spend the rest of his life alone? He waited until my sister and I were grown and on our own before he even considered it. My stepmom was a childhood acquaintance from the area he grew up in. They had never dated but he did go to dances that she was also at.
I have to admit, I was a little stunned when he told me they were going to move back to her farm in another state. Part of that was that they were selling my childhood home, where I had lived from age 0-18. But I quickly got past that. And Daddy was so happy on the farm! It was where he really belonged. He’d gotten stuck in the city for such a long time, but he was a farm boy who loved the outdoors. At one point he wanted to be a forest ranger! He hated crowds and had panic attacks!
If you love your parent, you overcome your own selfish desires and you recognize that no one wants to go through life alone.
Also, I am lucky that I have had several women in my life who have been substitute moms. My stepmother is one I have known and treated as a mother.
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TheRealJuliane
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Please, please go and speak to an attorney! I believe that you got poor advice in signing this pre-nup in the first place. Several people have questioned its ultimate legality. Your husband is keeping property gained during your marriage to him, away from your (rightful) co-ownership. Personally, I think he’s a jerk, but you married him and signed the paper.
Please get better legal advice.
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VBN55
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I was so praying that he would tear up prenup knowing how much distress it has put me through now that I know the Catholic church frowns on it but he will not. The last thing I have ever wanted to do is have a battle with my step children should my husband pass BUT if it means my survival then unfortunately we will have to battle it out and they will need to thank their father for that. I already know the prenup will not hold up, o was just hoping my husband after seven years would realize he could trust me and believe I would ne fair. It breaks my heart to think he will put me through this and his children.
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EasterJoy
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If you ever anticipate any kind of legal conflict ever afflicting you or your children, be diligent in your preparations. As you well know, timing can be everything in the eyes of the law. Those who fail to prepare or who prepare badly are usually at a hopeless disadvantage. So far, the bogus nature of your pre-nuptial agreement sounds as if your husband’s family is hoping to win their day by intimidation, not by the letter of the law. If not that, they just have had bad legal advice, or refused to listen to the good advice they got. That is their problem, not yours.
You have gotten so much resistance about having this conversation that you can ethically let them keep thinking that. He is not going to tear up the pre-nuptial agreement. Don’t go back to that topic. Abandon that stategy entirely. If the part that concerns you is not binding, anyway, give up the wind-mill chasing about destroying that piece of paper. It only upsets his kids and probably upsets him, if for no other reason than that it upsets them and he thought he’d settled all of that before you married. It is not as if you want a divorce or your sentiments towards the parts that would be binding have changed, so don’t make too much of it. If he’s going to be stubborn and his children have pinned their hopes on that worthless thing, let them be. If they bring up the subject, say, “There is a pre-nuptial agreement, your dad has it all taken care of, and that is that. He has put his affairs into the order he wanted them in, and none of us are going to change that. If you bring up the subject with him, you’re on their own.”
Talk to an estate attorney, and take the pre-nuptial agreement with you. If you are lucky, it will have been written primarily with the spectre of divorce in mind. Find out if your husband already has an estate plan of his own, and if he does, take that with you, too. Make sure you have estate papers in place that will protect your own children should you die before your husband does or when he does, and buy a term life insurance policy with your children as beneficiaries, if you need to, because you are still relatively young.
Be sure to get specific instructions about exactly what you ought to do if your husband dies before you do or what your children ought to do if you and your husband die more or less simulateously. Gather the information your attorney will need in case there is a legal fight of some kind, because there is not a snowball’s chance in h*** that your children will get that information if you are not around to obtain it for them. Were I you, I’d make these plans and let the rest of the family keep their head in the sand, if they want to. Raising the subject only makes trouble, so just leave them out of your loop. Keep as much information as possible in the hands of your attorney and give the rest to your personal executor (who should not be your husband).
Your husband’s families have been very diligent about looking after their own interests. They have no room to feel offended if you look after yours. Do not show them your hand, being sure they will not show theirs. Having said that, I think discretely taking care of this while far far off of their radar will ultimately reward you and your heirs, if only out of drama prevention.
See to doing justice. Let your plan be respectful of and faithful to the spirit to which you promised yourself, because Heaven will hold you to that. Do not feel bound to any aspects of the agreement which are in violation of canon law and not enforceable in civil law, because it was wrong of your husband to ask you to go along with those in the first place, whether he knew it at the time or not. If such arrangements were not inherently unjust or a violation of the nature of a Catholic marriage, they would be legal.
After that, protect what justly deserves protection, seal your lips, and leave your husband’s relatives to what they get.
The grocery money account? That you are only allowed to spend your money on things that do not have any value as long-term assets? That is something else again, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with your pre-nuptial agreement. Take that up with your husband, because he’s doing you wrong there.
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VBN55
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I don’t know who you are Easterjoy, but thank you from the bottom of my heart!
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EasterJoy
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Wait to see what happens, but I think it will be the attorney who will render whatever help you can get in this situation. For your sake, I hope it is substantial! Beyond that, live a happy life with your husband and in peace with his family, and hope for the best. That is the main thing. We’re all in the hands of Providence in the end, and can only do what we can do. None of us know if your husband will have a penny to leave with anyone, after all. As you know too well, we just never know. Tend to your marriage and do your best; that is all you can do! And, who knows, as his mortality comes upon him, he may look at all of this differently and you may settle it all up jointly in the end. Look at what you’re doing now as a prudent act to tide you until then, and who knows, that may happen. In the meantime, you can sleep knowing you’ve done your best.
The best of luck to you!
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