Finding Saint Francis

[iloveangels]

Usually it is not advised that one in formation wear the Tau until Candidacy. At Candidacy usually one is gifted by the Fraternity. I know at professions the ring is usually gifted as well. I think someone else could weigh in on this more officially.

Not always. My fraternity gave just the plain wooden Tau with the knotted cord, like most of the members wear, along with a copy of the Gospels and a certificate which I have hanging on my bedroom wall. I believe that this is somewhat of a tradition for our fraternity.

 

[iloveangels]

Then the Tau should be worn at all times publicly by those professed as it is the habit not just at meetings and at Mass. Brother JR had a great set of posts on this a while back. Unfortunately I had them under my old account. I had saved them because the words meant a lot to me. They are from over a year ago (The thread was on Franciscan Cordbearers but just like this one it took many twists and turns):

One of these, joanofarc?

forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=10000330

 

[joanofarc2008]

One of these, joanofarc?

forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=10000330

Your link wouldn’t work ):

 

[Julia_Mae]

After six days away from a computer, I have spent about 6 hours on CAF just catching up.

I thought I would update on myself before I go off to do laundry:

In my daughter’s new location where we thought I would be living within three months, there are some legal snarls and now we have no idea what will happen. (But the first thing we moved onto the property after her closing was: Saint Francis under the tree in the backyard.) I did find the parish with the Friary attached and it was… just walking in was better than Valium. But things are unsettled, as I said. SO - time to look around more diligently for SFO in my area. It might be floor-length blue scapulars after all! But perhaps I should wait, or contact the SFO in the place I am still probably moving and find out of if would have to go through another formation from the beginning.

I thought I might find something online or just follow a reading program on my own now that I can buy a book or two.

This thread seems like a pretty good resource having read what y’all have been writing for the last week. Someone finally made a stab at a definition of a charism of penance and service. Which agrees with how I read Francis, but somehow, it all falls under this umbrella of prayer. However, does any Order not emphasize a life of prayer, I mean, isn’t this the common tie that binds us all? Or possibly should? We don’t talk much about our prayer lives here.

Also, what exactly do we think “penance” means? Do we mean what Francis meant? I keep thinking it has to be wound up with detachment. But that’s not very clear. I just think the detachment must be something very important.

I have a red leather purse. I love my red purse, it makes me smile. But I thought red wasn’t very penitential, maybe I should get a simple black one and give this nice red one to the local resell for charity place. Then I thought what if I took the blackpurse money and sent it to Africa to feed folks and didn’t care what anyone, including me, thought of my red purse? BUT - but I like my red purse. And I don’t think I can just stop liking it. I don’t think hungry people in Africa care. Should I?

*sigh *

 

[TrueLight]

Also, what exactly do we think “penance” means? Do we mean what Francis meant? I keep thinking it has to be wound up with detachment. But that’s not very clear. I just think the detachment must be something very important.

I have these same questions too. I am constantly looking for the “penance” part when I look at third orders. I am always thinking of ways I can live a penitential life, prayerfully.

I have a red leather purse. I love my red purse, it makes me smile. But I thought red wasn’t very penitential, maybe I should get a simple black one and give this nice red one to the local resell for charity place. Then I thought what if I took the blackpurse money and sent it to Africa to feed folks and didn’t care what anyone, including me, thought of my red purse? BUT - but I like my red purse. And I don’t think I can just stop liking it. I don’t think hungry people in Africa care. Should I?

You made me smile.

 

[iloveangels]

Your link wouldn’t work ):

I’m sorry. I searched using “franciscan cordbearers” and 2 links came up, one of them being something that looked like what you had mentioned. It’s probably in my computer cache and that’s why it looked to me like the link would work.

Maybe if you did the same search, your computer would find it too? Hope so.

 

[iloveangels]

After six days away from a computer, I have spent about 6 hours on CAF just catching up.

I thought I would update on myself before I go off to do laundry:

In my daughter’s new location where we thought I would be living within three months, there are some legal snarls and now we have no idea what will happen. (But the first thing we moved onto the property after her closing was: Saint Francis under the tree in the backyard.) I did find the parish with the Friary attached and it was… just walking in was better than Valium. But things are unsettled, as I said. SO - time to look around more diligently for SFO in my area. It might be floor-length blue scapulars after all! But perhaps I should wait, or contact the SFO in the place I am still probably moving and find out of if would have to go through another formation from the beginning.

I thought I might find something online or just follow a reading program on my own now that I can buy a book or two.

This thread seems like a pretty good resource having read what y’all have been writing for the last week. Someone finally made a stab at a definition of a charism of penance and service. Which agrees with how I read Francis, but somehow, it all falls under this umbrella of prayer. However, does any Order not emphasize a life of prayer, I mean, isn’t this the common tie that binds us all? Or possibly should? We don’t talk much about our prayer lives here.

Also, what exactly do we think “penance” means? Do we mean what Francis meant? I keep thinking it has to be wound up with detachment. But that’s not very clear. I just think the detachment must be something very important.

I have a red leather purse. I love my red purse, it makes me smile. But I thought red wasn’t very penitential, maybe I should get a simple black one and give this nice red one to the local resell for charity place. Then I thought what if I took the blackpurse money and sent it to Africa to feed folks and didn’t care what anyone, including me, thought of my red purse? BUT - but I like my red purse. And I don’t think I can just stop liking it. I don’t think hungry people in Africa care. Should I?

*sigh *

There’s a long history of penitents in the RC church, Julia Mae. Penance doesn’t mean the same as mortification in the ancient language of the Church. It means “turning towards God,” and the means for doing that. It can include mortification, when that’s warranted, but isn’t limited to it.

The third order, both SFO and TOR (male & female) have a characteristic expression of Franciscanism that’s as unique as that of the 1st and 2nd orders. It’s often been overshadowed by the 1st & 3rd expressions because of the practical situations it’s found itself in, but the expression is genuine and it’s unique. It involves “turning toward God,” which is the meaning of penance, and it involves works of mercy.

There are also some characteristics of the Franciscan way of life that are common to all three orders: obedience to the founder being one of them.

You asked about prayer. Yes, there is a characteristically Franciscan way of praying, encapsulated in the prayers of Father Francis, which can easily be found in various Franciscan books. As distinct but complimentary to generic Catholic prayer, it involves using the prayers of the Church along with simple direct prayer to Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Franciscans often spend a lot of time praying for others, and engaging in praise and thanksgiving.

 

[iloveangels]

After six days away from a computer, I have spent about 6 hours on CAF just catching up.

I thought I would update on myself before I go off to do laundry:

In my daughter’s new location where we thought I would be living within three months, there are some legal snarls and now we have no idea what will happen. (But the first thing we moved onto the property after her closing was: Saint Francis under the tree in the backyard.) I did find the parish with the Friary attached and it was… just walking in was better than Valium. But things are unsettled, as I said. SO - time to look around more diligently for SFO in my area. It might be floor-length blue scapulars after all! But perhaps I should wait, or contact the SFO in the place I am still probably moving and find out of if would have to go through another formation from the beginning.

I thought I might find something online or just follow a reading program on my own now that I can buy a book or two.

This thread seems like a pretty good resource having read what y’all have been writing for the last week. Someone finally made a stab at a definition of a charism of penance and service. Which agrees with how I read Francis, but somehow, it all falls under this umbrella of prayer. However, does any Order not emphasize a life of prayer, I mean, isn’t this the common tie that binds us all? Or possibly should? We don’t talk much about our prayer lives here.

Also, what exactly do we think “penance” means? Do we mean what Francis meant? I keep thinking it has to be wound up with detachment. But that’s not very clear. I just think the detachment must be something very important.

I have a red leather purse. I love my red purse, it makes me smile. But I thought red wasn’t very penitential, maybe I should get a simple black one and give this nice red one to the local resell for charity place. Then I thought what if I took the blackpurse money and sent it to Africa to feed folks and didn’t care what anyone, including me, thought of my red purse? BUT - but I like my red purse. And I don’t think I can just stop liking it. I don’t think hungry people in Africa care. Should I?

*sigh *

Well, if your red purse in useful or an expression of joy, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Joy is good.

On the other hand, if you love your red purse more than God, or if your red purse is getting in the way of your relationship with God or others, it’s a problem.

You are the only one who can answer the question.

 

[TrueLight]

I think I am constantly mixing up penance with mortification.

 

[Julia_Mae]

This is a direct link to BrJR’s post:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7228350&postcount=30

The whole thread is a goldmine of Br JR’s writings on the SFO. I just stole this whole post of his so we’d have it here:

I was not there in 1978 when the Secular Franciscan Rule was rewritten, though I did help with the translation into Spanish from the Latin, but my feeling is that the General Council was trying to unify the Secular Franciscans. That’s how the new name came into existence. They were often divided into different groups: Capuching Third Order, Franciscan Third Order, Conventual Third Order, Third Order of St. Francis. All of these divisions were nonsensical, because it was one order, with one founder, one rule and one patrimony. The divisions were manipulations to give the friar-priests control over the seculars.

Unfortunately, many Secular Franciscans have not outgrown this. They still promote an un-Franciscan veneration of the friar-priests and often subordinate themselves to them, when no one asks them to do so. On the other hand, there is also a weakness that is taking root among many Secular Franciscan fraternities. It’s called secularism. The Order is to be an oder of secular men and women, lay and ordained. But it is supposed to be visibly Franciscan. The visbility is not always there. Many fraternities have reduced Franciscan life to a monthly meeting. This is not the way that the Secular Franciscan saints lived their vocation.

You have women like St. Elizabeth of Hungary who ran a hospital for the poor. There were other Secular Franciscan ministries such as hospices, schools for the poor, orphanages, missions. Among the five Franciscan martyrs there were Secular Franciscan missionaries. Martyrd with St. Paul Miki of Japan were Jesuits and Secular Franciscans.

St. Thomas More wrote his great work, Utopia, based on Franciscan spirituality. The Franciscan ideal of peace and justice is very clear through his writing. St. Louis King of France guided himself by the Gospel. He died defending the Catholic faith. Secular Franciscans were often leaders in culture. Among them are great men and women such as Dante, Columbus, Pasteur, Pius X, John XXIII, Giotto, Rafael, Michelangelo, Ampere and Palestrina.

Today, the Secular Franciscans seem to shy away from taking on leadership roles in government, art, science, and other positions of social and cultural leadership. They tend to have become part of the crowd. It was not St. Francis’ idea that the Secular Brothers and Sisters be anonymous. His idea was that they be holy, but remain involved in the secular sphere, without becoming secularized. Secular Franciscans need to become more vocal and more present in the affairs of the world around them, to bring the Gospel to the places that religious Franciscans cannot go.

Here we are, on the eve of an election, one has to ask, why has the largest secular order in the Church not made a statemet about resposible citizenship and responsible voting. Did they even discuss it? They should be at the forefront of the Gospel of Life. There are many Secular Franciscans involved in the fight for life, but there is lacking a Franciscan presence. They should be present at abortuaries as fraternities. They should be guiding their secular brothers and sisters in the service of the poor, the sick, the dying and so forth. This is what the great Secular Franciscan saints did. Everyone knew they were Franciscan.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think I am constantly mixing up penance with mortification.

I do, too, and now I’m not sure I know what either one of those words mean. I think I’ll do some poking around, with hints from the most erudite** iloveangels**. Perhaps BrJR will further enlighten us, also.

 

[Julia_Mae]

There’s a long history of penitents in the RC church, Julia Mae. Penance doesn’t mean the same as mortification in the ancient language of the Church. It means “turning towards God,” and the means for doing that. It can include mortification, when that’s warranted, but isn’t limited to it.

Thanks so much, I had a feeling I was pretty much in the dark. I keep thinking that what people understood simply in the early 12th century might be miles away from what can be understood through a translation to modern English, even 19th century modern English.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Not always. My fraternity gave just the plain wooden Tau with the knotted cord, like most of the members wear, along with a copy of the Gospels and a certificate which I have hanging on my bedroom wall. I believe that this is somewhat of a tradition for our fraternity.

Yes, same here. The rings can be super expensive, and it would certainly be traditional for someone the professed is close to in the fraternity to give it as a gift, but it would be far from automatic given the expense. Wooden taus are inexpensive, and there are many other forms like pins (which I was given by friends in the fraternity). I picked out my ring and saved up for it for months, and then someone approached me and asked if I had chosen one, because they wanted to get it as a gift.

 

[Marauder]

I do, too, and now I’m not sure I know what either one of those words mean. I think I’ll do some poking around, with hints from the most erudite** iloveangels**. Perhaps BrJR will further enlighten us, also.

Penance and mortification are two different things. Mortification usually involves doing something physical to punish yourself from your sins. An example is that St. Francis himself would throw his make body into the snow to help overcome what many believe was sexual temptation. People use anything from whips to wool shirts against the body as methods for doing this. None of this is required or even suggested for members of SFO. But there is no prohibition against it either.

Penance can involve methods for overcoming the sin that don’t involve physical pain. The best way I have heard it put is penance can be thought of as continual conversion. Continually trying to convert your ENTIRE life to be in accord with the life of Jesus. The methods for doing so vary person to person but should at least involve prayer. Within the Franciscan community it also involves frequent attendance at Mass and frequent reception of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. The Penance can either be imposed by your confessor/spiritual director or yourself depending on the situation. Every time you sin you should think of how you can bring yourself closer to Jesus and inline with Jesus’ teachings. Pain can be used by some people (physical or mental pain) but it isn’t required. Within the Franciscan community it is helpful to model yourself after St. Francis/ St. Clare and Lady Poverty.

 

[iloveangels]

I do, too, and now I’m not sure I know what either one of those words mean. I think I’ll do some poking around, with hints from the most erudite** iloveangels**. Perhaps BrJR will further enlighten us, also.

Julia Mae,
There’s a lot that’s been written on third order spirituality, and even more being done because of the interest in the topic after V2. One of the best I’ve seen is “St. Francis and the Third Order,” by Raffaele Pazzelli. Books of this caliber are the ones SFOs should be requiring their candidates to read instead of the fluff pieces that are usually used, which are more suitable for the general population.

 

[iloveangels]

Penance and mortification are two different things. Mortification usually involves doing something physical to punish yourself from your sins. An example is that St. Francis himself would throw his make body into the snow to help overcome what many believe was sexual temptation. People use anything from whips to wool shirts against the body as methods for doing this. None of this is required or even suggested for members of SFO. But there is no prohibition against it either.

Penance can involve methods for overcoming the sin that don’t involve physical pain. The best way I have heard it put is penance can be thought of as continual conversion. Continually trying to convert your ENTIRE life to be in accord with the life of Jesus. The methods for doing so vary person to person but should at least involve prayer. Within the Franciscan community it also involves frequent attendance at Mass and frequent reception of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. The Penance can either be imposed by your confessor/spiritual director or yourself depending on the situation. Every time you sin you should think of how you can bring yourself closer to Jesus and inline with Jesus’ teachings. Pain can be used by some people (physical or mental pain) but it isn’t required. Within the Franciscan community it is helpful to model yourself after St. Francis/ St. Clare and Lady Poverty.

Marauder, before doing mortifications like the ones you describe, a person must talk to a spiritual advisor. Sometimes people are compelled to do these things for the wrong reasons. It can be a bit like “cutting yourself” for some people, which is not a religious act but a sign of some serious personal troubles. [Having taught school for several years, I’ve seen this self-punishing phenomenon before on several occasions, and it is anything but religious in nature. It’s solidly psychological in nature and cause, although often those who do it are at a loss to explain what they’re doing and may think it’s something else, or even that “it gets them someplace.” I repeat, cutting yourself or engaging in any other kind of pain-inducing action on purpose, can have a lot of different motives, most of them not religious, but psychological.]

The meaning of penance, in the time and place where St. Francis used it, is “turning towards God.” It means roughly the same thing as continual conversion. Many people are more than ready to do the flashy and fast thing, whereas few people are willing to continually apply the good kind of pressure on themselves to improve their prayer lives and live better more scriptural lives in union with the Church.

There were many penitents in the history of the church who went from their homes and gave away everything. That’s the part of the story of St. Francis that gets all the press, particularly in America, because giving up your money and your home is very, very contrary to American culture. It strikes us as fantastic and incredible and makes a great movie. It also keys into some political and cultural views that predate St. Francis by centuries and have absolutely nothing to do with him or his movement.

But that’s not why St. Francis is the most saintly or the most important of all the penitents. He’s important because of all the facets of his personality and movement which were 100% faithful to the church and the Gospel. He focused on Christ, not on himself, and in doing so, realized that the Church was the body of Christ and to be loved and obeyed, and that he was one brother among many. The man knew scripture. Recall that the church in 1100-1200 was undergoing great challenges and most of the penitents of that day were not very faithful to it. Father Francis was. The popular movies don’t say much about faithfulness to the Church. LOL.

In other times and places, his prayer life has been considered more important than it typically is for the American Franciscan. He prayed at least as much as he did anything else. He was the first to receive the stigmata, and the only one whose stigmata is given a feast day in the Roman calendar. He completely identified with Christ and sought in all his life to imitate him, whom he loved more than anyone or anything. Part of his personal penance was the order itself although he never ceased to love his brothers, just as Christ does.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

franciscanresources.com/store/large/13wat/FRANCISCAN_RINGS_-S_F_O_-TAU-_OTHERS/SILVER_RING_WITH_14K_GOLD_TAU.html

There’s my ring I also wear a wooden Tau pendant unless I’m really dresses up, in which case I swap it out for a nice enamel Tau pin.

That’s gorgeous!

 

[iloveangels]

Marauder, before doing mortifications like the ones you describe, a person must talk to a spiritual advisor. Sometimes people are compelled to do these things for the wrong reasons. It can be a bit like “cutting yourself” for some people, which is not a religious act but a sign of some serious personal troubles. [Having taught school for several years, I’ve seen this self-punishing phenomenon before on several occasions, and it is anything but religious in nature. It’s solidly psychological in nature and cause, although often those who do it are at a loss to explain what they’re doing and may think it’s something else, or even that “it gets them someplace.” I repeat, cutting yourself or engaging in any other kind of pain-inducing action on purpose, can have a lot of different motives, most of them not religious, but psychological.]

The meaning of penance, in the time and place where St. Francis used it, is “turning towards God.” It means roughly the same thing as continual conversion. Many people are more than ready to do the flashy and fast thing, whereas few people are willing to continually apply the good kind of pressure on themselves to improve their prayer lives and live better more scriptural lives in union with the Church.

There were many penitents in the history of the church who went from their homes and gave away everything. That’s the part of the story of St. Francis that gets all the press, particularly in America, because giving up your money and your home is very, very contrary to American culture. It strikes us as fantastic and incredible and makes a great movie. It also keys into some political and cultural views that predate St. Francis by centuries and have absolutely nothing to do with him or his movement.

But that’s not why St. Francis is the most saintly or the most important of all the penitents. He’s important because of all the facets of his personality and movement which were 100% faithful to the church and the Gospel. He focused on Christ, not on himself, and in doing so, realized that the Church was the body of Christ and to be loved and obeyed, and that he was one brother among many. The man knew scripture. Recall that the church in 1100-1200 was undergoing great challenges and most of the penitents of that day were not very faithful to it. Father Francis was. The popular movies don’t say much about faithfulness to the Church. LOL.

In other times and places, his prayer life has been considered more important than it typically is for the American Franciscan. He prayed at least as much as he did anything else. He was the first to receive the stigmata, and the only one whose stigmata is given a feast day in the Roman calendar. He completely identified with Christ and sought in all his life to imitate him, whom he loved more than anyone or anything. Part of his personal penance was the order itself although he never ceased to love his brothers, just as Christ does.

PS: “American Franciscan” in the last paragraph = American SFO; I don’t know anywhere near enough about the other Franciscan orders to say this regarding them. No opinion there.

 

[Marauder]

Marauder, before doing mortifications like the ones you describe, a person must talk to a spiritual advisor. Sometimes people are compelled to do these things for the wrong reasons. It can be a bit like “cutting yourself” for some people, which is not a religious act but a sign of some serious personal troubles.

Yes the more severe mortification should be talked over with a spiritual director, but you don’t really need to talk over the less severe ones. Throwing yourself in a snow bank because you feel sexual temptation doesn’t really need to be talked over with your spiritual director. The same goes for wearing a hair shirt or a wool shirt or something like that.

If you get into the items like whips and the chain thing for your leg (that I can’t remember the name right now) or anything that actually would cause any real damage you should talk that over with a spiritual director.

As I said nowhere is a member of SFO required to do this, but they are permitted to depending on the situation.

 

[iloveangels]

Yes the more severe mortification should be talked over with a spiritual director, but you don’t really need to talk over the less severe ones. Throwing yourself in a snow bank because you feel sexual temptation doesn’t really need to be talked over with your spiritual director. The same goes for wearing a hair shirt or a wool shirt or something like that.

If you get into the items like whips and the chain thing for your leg (that I can’t remember the name right now) or anything that actually would cause any real damage you should talk that over with a spiritual director.

As I said nowhere is a member of SFO required to do this, but they are permitted to depending on the situation.

Throwing yourself in a snowbank in January is faster than taking a cold shower, and if it works, hey. I agree. That’s pretty basic as long as you don’t make yourself sick over it or create a notoriety for yourself among the people you live with. Certainly taking a walk in the cold, postponing purchases or doing without that last cookie or extra serving are in the same category. I would say that surrepticiously giving away things that you don’t need, as long as they don’t take away from the rest of your family, would fit into that same category. As would going out of your way to help someone, avoid that bad movie, etc. or learn more about your faith, read scripture, spend more time in prayer, get to mass more often, etc.

However, wearing a rough hair shirt on bare skin is probably something you should talk over with a spiritual advisor who knows you, and anything past this point probably requires some scrutiny by another party. Whips and chains and all that stuff are used by a wide variety of people for a wide variety of purposes. You realize this, I hope. They should only be used in a well-thought out plan with a capable spiritual advisor. They can be quite dangerous if casually used.