Finding Saint Francis

[iloveangels]

That’s a good question for someone thinking of going to their first SFO meeting. SFOs come with all kinds of clothes, . It all depends on what’s going on, who they are, and what’s going on in their lives. There really is no law about that, except that clothes shouldn’t be running a person’s life or anything near it. Obviously, if a person is an SFO, right?

Clothes are stuff to put on, for privacy, modesty and health’s sake, and certain kinds are necessary for certain jobs you might have to do. I work in science, ergo khakis/jeans, short sleeved blouses and shoes with solid toes. The SFO has members who do everything from emergency room medicine to housework to sales and service occupations for a living and there are a lot of retired people and some mommies with babies & diaper bags in tow, so they all dress a bit different, which doesn’t really matter much. They come to enjoy the meeting with other members.

PS: You will tend not to see a lot of expensive jewelry–diamond boulders, etc, barring wedding rings and ordinary everyday stuff. You will see nice normal jewelry on occasion-nothing wrong with that-and you will see purses and things. People drive decent cars, etc.

PS, if you saw us in any other kind of diocesan weeknight gathering, like a class on a film etc, you probably wouldn’t notice anything different except the occasional Taus if you knew to look for them.

 

[TrueLight]

That’s a good question for someone thinking of going to their first SFO meeting. SFOs come with all kinds of clothes, . It all depends on what’s going on, who they are, and what’s going on in their lives. There really is no law about that, except that clothes shouldn’t be running a person’s life or anything near it. Obviously, if a person is an SFO, right?

Clothes are stuff to put on, for privacy, modesty and health’s sake, and certain kinds are necessary for certain jobs you might have to do. I work in science, ergo khakis/jeans, short sleeved blouses and shoes with solid toes. The SFO has members who do everything from emergency room medicine to housework to sales and service occupations for a living and there are a lot of retired people and some mommies with babies & diaper bags in tow, so they all dress a bit different, which doesn’t really matter much. They come to enjoy the meeting with other members.

PS: You will tend not to see a lot of expensive jewelry–diamond boulders, etc, barring wedding rings and ordinary everyday stuff.

PS, if you saw us in any other kind of diocesan weeknight gathering, like a class on a film etc, you probably wouldn’t notice anything different except the occasional Taus if you knew to look for them.

I really wanted to know the answer to this too. Thanks.+

 

[Julia_Mae]

For the record, my enamel Tau is still quite plain But wearing a wooden Tau with my nice Christmas dress would indeed attract attention, because my wooden one has been been through quite a bit of real life and no longer has a nice finish, shows some bite marks from a small child, etc.

Right! So it would be like the Pharisee wrenching his face into misery so everyone knows he is fasting, just a way to call attention to being righteous or something. My daughter used to have to go to these $10,000 a plate charity dinners her company would by tickets to and then none of the owners would wan to go so they’d send a few employees. If she was SFO, I could actually see a small diamond-encrusted Tau being the most appropriate thing.

Seriously, though, I think we each need to decide what is most appropriate/congruent given our secular lives.

Right! (I seem to be repeating myself) Anyway, so the thing is, I am thinking, not being a secular person who is Franciscan, but being a Franciscan living in the secular world. This secular world, the one where we spend enough to watch TV every year to support two families in Guatamala and send their children to school and give them basic medical care. We spend money on food that not only has no nutritional value, but is actually damaging our health, just for the physical pleasure of eating it.

How to be a penitent when just doing what’s good for you is actually considered sacrificial? What would true sacrifice look like?

Did you ever wonder what the point was for Francis to throw away his birthright and give away what he owned, which at the time, wasn’t much? He could’ve been a secular Francis, himself, made a lot of money, lived simply, and fed a lot more people. But then he wouldn’t have been transformed, no stigmata, no huge Order, no saving the Church.

I’m still trying to solve the red purse dilemma.

 

[iloveangels]

Right! So it would be like the Pharisee wrenching his face into misery so everyone knows he is fasting, just a way to call attention to being righteous or something. My daughter used to have to go to these $10,000 a plate charity dinners her company would by tickets to and then none of the owners would wan to go so they’d send a few employees. If she was SFO, I could actually see a small diamond-encrusted Tau being the most appropriate thing.

Right! (I seem to be repeating myself) Anyway, so the thing is, I am thinking, not being a secular person who is Franciscan, but being a Franciscan living in the secular world. This secular world, the one where we spend enough to watch TV every year to support two families in Guatamala and send their children to school and give them basic medical care. We spend money on food that not only has no nutritional value, but is actually damaging our health, just for the physical pleasure of eating it.

How to be a penitent when just doing what’s good for you is actually considered sacrificial? What would true sacrifice look like?

Did you ever wonder what the point was for Francis to throw away his birthright and give away what he owned, which at the time, wasn’t much? He could’ve been a secular Francis, himself, made a lot of money, lived simply, and fed a lot more people. But then he wouldn’t have been transformed, no stigmata, no huge Order, no saving the Church.

I’m still trying to solve the red purse dilemma.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for, Julia Mae.

If the SFO is what you’re interested in, then the best thing to do is to visit your local SFO chapter and see what they say when you ask them what they’re about. Then it’s up to you what you choose to do next.

If you’re not interested in the SFO but are interested in St. Francis, there are many books that you can read, and there are other groups and societies that also love St. Francis. And in this case, it’s up to you what you do with the information that you find.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for, Julia Mae.

.

Well I was looking to talk in a forum about things that interest me. So I started a thread. Now I am.

I have to admit I do find it interesting, considering how much people talk about vocation, and formation and being SFO, how little anyone actually has to say about their experience. In a Vocations forum where folks might be lurking around wondering about things, seems like a good opportunity to really speak about this. Like what difference it’s made in anyone’s life, what the fraternity means to them and why a Secular Order that has existed so long with both genders keeps talking about fraternity, but that’s a side issue.

I’m pretty sure if I came into this thread from a cold start I wouldn’t have much better idea after wading through it, who Saint Francis was or what it means to be SFO. If I wanted to call someone I would have. If I wanted to read another book, which I do, I will. What I wanted was to talk in a forum so I am.

I was never looking for answers.

 

[iloveangels]

Well I was looking to talk in a forum about things that interest me. So I started a thread. Now I am.

I have to admit I do find it interesting, considering how much people talk about vocation, and formation and being SFO, how little anyone actually has to say about their experience. In a Vocations forum where folks might be lurking around wondering about things, seems like a good opportunity to really speak about this. Like what difference it’s made in anyone’s life, what the fraternity means to them and why a Secular Order that has existed so long with both genders keeps talking about fraternity, but that’s a side issue.

I’m pretty sure if I came into this thread from a cold start I wouldn’t have much better idea after wading through it, who Saint Francis was or what it means to be SFO. If I wanted to call someone I would have. If I wanted to read another book, which I do, I will. What I wanted was to talk in a forum so I am.

I was never looking for answers.

Nevertheless, this has been a very informative thread for an online forum, with lots of good information, thanks to Br Jr, Jason, EvelynEVF, Marauder, TrueLight, Luigi and many others. I, too, enjoy reading these. Thanks for starting it.

 

[TrueLight]

Well I was looking to talk in a forum about things that interest me. So I started a thread. Now I am.

I have to admit I do find it interesting, considering how much people talk about vocation, and formation and being SFO, how little anyone actually has to say about their experience. In a Vocations forum where folks might be lurking around wondering about things, seems like a good opportunity to really speak about this. Like what difference it’s made in anyone’s life, what the fraternity means to them and why a Secular Order that has existed so long with both genders keeps talking about fraternity, but that’s a side issue.

I’m pretty sure if I came into this thread from a cold start I wouldn’t have much better idea after wading through it, who Saint Francis was or what it means to be SFO. If I wanted to call someone I would have. If I wanted to read another book, which I do, I will. What I wanted was to talk in a forum so I am.

I was never looking for answers.

Oh but you are looking for answers. Like what does it mean for a penitent to live in the secular word.

I know what you mean. I attended one Dominican meeting and I kept trying to find Dominic the mystic and the preacher. I kept on asking, “How about preaching? Do you all do a lot of evangelizing?” How about Lecio Divina?

What I found, and granted, I only attended one meeting, that the meeting involved more of “fraternity”. Here’s that word again. So there was a social aspect. They also had one person talk about a Saint and apparently different people take turns researching and discussing a topic with the group. So there was the emphasis on learning and teaching.

Maybe what I am seeking is more commonly found among Religious living in community.

I also went to a Carmelite meeting and I was impressed with the emphasis on prayer and meditation.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Well, let’s see. If you showed up at my fraternity, you would find mostly people in their 70s, though many of us are younger. Nearly all would still be in “church clothes” since it would be Sunday afternoon. Wide variety of Taus, but a majority have wooden ones. A significant number are pretty deaf and will interrupt at odd times with sides conversations or requests for louder clarifications. We have announcements, reports from the treasurer, minister, etc. Some time for coffee. And then the Spiritual Assistant speaks, which recently has been about the new translation. Then an hour of really fabulous ongoing formation usually split between three people, one of whom will give a personal testimony about finding Francis and living the charism. Then we have Evening Prayer together.

During the week, I know of members who run the food pantry, manage the thrift store, visit loads of shut-ins, serve Mass, work in healthcare, take care of children/grandchildren, work at a crisis pregnancy center, and teach. One is a fulltime deacon. One is a regular at a diner where there is always a crowd of folks who want to talk religion with her.

It has certainly been discussed at our meetings that everything we are called to do is appropriate for all the baptized, but the difference for us is our intention and our intensity. We talke about poverty and how it means holding with an open hand and constantly monitoring for the creep of stuff. We had a forthright discussion about chastity not too long ago We speak of penance as something very positive–clearing out the things that distract us from Jesus, and picking up those that do. The fraternity is far from being just social–it’s also a good chance to be with a whole crowd that doesn’t look at us weird for being “too religious” or a little crazy. The group often has good suggestions for specific issues that come up, where a Catholic in the pew just might not quite understand.

But honestly, and I’ve said this before, I didn’t really “get it” as a Franciscan until I was a Franciscan, after three years of intensive weekly formation.

 

[Marauder]

I have to admit I do find it interesting, considering how much people talk about vocation, and formation and being SFO, how little anyone actually has to say about their experience. In a Vocations forum where folks might be lurking around wondering about things, seems like a good opportunity to really speak about this.

People have been talking about what SFO meetings are like all over the board. The problem is that since so many people talk on this board things get lost in all the messages. That is one of the reasons that as soon as social groups were enabled in the forums I started the Franciscan Spirituality group so conversations like these can happen and not get lost. People specifically interested in the Franciscan charism can find information and ask questions about anything there. Eventually this thread will go inactive or get closed by the the moderators and will be hard to find.

As for dress at a SFO meeting as was already mentioned you will find people wearing lots of different things. Also what people wear may change depending on the meeting. Usually people will get more dressed up for the professions.

When our fraternity met on weeknights those people that were working age usually wore whatever they would wear to work (within reason.) Most of the retired people would usually wear whatever they wear to a normal Sunday Mass. As with at church that can vary person to person.

Now that our fraternity meets on Sundays most people just wear what they normally would wear to Sunday Mass since the first part of our meeting is Sunday Mass. People still get a little more dressing for profession and may dress down a little if the meeting has a service element to it.

Honestly there is no worries about what you wear to a SFO meeting as long as you wear something that you would feel comfortable wearing to church. There is no reason to overdress, that would probably be out of place.

As for the Tau cross. I wear my Tau cross with everything. Everything from T-shirts to suits. The only times I take my Tau cross off are in the shower, when I sleep and anytime I do things like painting and other home repair. I have several wooden Tau crosses of different sizes. I tend to wear the ones that are in better shape and smaller ones with the “finer” clothes, but that is just because I have more smaller ones. I only have one big one and it is pretty beaten up since I have two kids.

 

[TrueLight]

. That is one of the reasons that as soon as social groups were enabled in the forums I started the Franciscan Spirituality group so conversations like these can happen and not get lost. People specifically interested in the Franciscan charism can find information and ask questions about anything there.

Cool. Thank you.

 

[iloveangels]

Well I was looking to talk in a forum about things that interest me. So I started a thread. Now I am.

I have to admit I do find it interesting, considering how much people talk about vocation, and formation and being SFO, how little anyone actually has to say about their experience. In a Vocations forum where folks might be lurking around wondering about things, seems like a good opportunity to really speak about this. Like what difference it’s made in anyone’s life, what the fraternity means to them and why a Secular Order that has existed so long with both genders keeps talking about fraternity, but that’s a side issue.

I’m pretty sure if I came into this thread from a cold start I wouldn’t have much better idea after wading through it, who Saint Francis was or what it means to be SFO. If I wanted to call someone I would have. If I wanted to read another book, which I do, I will. What I wanted was to talk in a forum so I am.

I was never looking for answers.

So there are some answers, because you were asking for them. You wanted to know what living like a penitent was about.

Remember that we’re not OFMs or Poor Clares. We are the third order, the order of penance. Each of the three orders has a slightly different charism within the Franciscan whole.

What EvelynEVF says at the end is very important: about not getting it until after 3 years of intense weekly formation. That really happens to all of us. It’s easy to talk about Franciscans from outside-what we are, what we should be doing in someone’s opinion, etc etc-but once inside the order, it can take a long time to really think, feel and act like one. It’s very different from the prevailing culture.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Oh but you are looking for answers. Like what does it mean for a penitent to live in the secular word.

Fair enough. I don’t think of that as an “answer” as much as a discussion of perception and practice. I think of an answer as “here is a fact.” And we’re done.

I also went to a Carmelite meeting and I was impressed with the emphasis on prayer and meditation.

Are you looking at their Third order of Discalced Carmelites? I did at one time, it’s a very, to me, well-defined vocation to prayer. If you are called to prayer, I think it might be a very good fit.

 

[Julia_Mae]

But honestly, and I’ve said this before, I didn’t really “get it” as a Franciscan until I was a Franciscan, after three years of intensive weekly formation.

Wow, what a great great post! Thanks so much. Are you all from the same parish? Do you or do some people have a personal spiritual director?

 

[Julia_Mae]

…once inside the order, it can take a long time to really think, feel and act like one. It’s very different from the prevailing culture.

Can you say more about this? About how you feel you changed in your own thinking and feeling, especially as contrasted to the prevailing culture? Or to how you were before?

 

[iloveangels]

Can you say more about this? About how you feel you changed in your own thinking and feeling, especially as contrasted to the prevailing culture? Or to how you were before?

We’re not all from the same fraternity. We’re in an online forum, remember.

Julia Mae, regarding becoming a Franciscan because of the formation, I’m sure any member of any third order is going to say pretty much the same thing. A person doesn’t just walk in off the street and become a Carmelite or a Dominican just like that, or anything else. This is not a revelation of any sort.

I’m not going to go into this further, because there’s already a lot of information in these threads. You said you looked into the OCDS. That’s cool. Have you also looked into the Dominicans or the Benedictine Oblates or the Servites or any of the others? There are quite a few, and even more if you include associates to congregations.

 

[iloveangels]

Fair enough. I don’t think of that as an “answer” as much as a discussion of perception and practice. I think of an answer as “here is a fact.” And we’re done.

Are you looking at their Third order of Discalced Carmelites? I did at one time, it’s a very, to me, well-defined vocation to prayer. If you are called to prayer, I think it might be a very good fit.

All members of third orders are called to prayer, including Franciscans, and in fact all Catholics are. It’s true that the members of the OCDS pursue it intensely and with a particular method, but all are called to prayer and many use one or the other Catholic methods of prayer. I’m sure there are threads about prayer styles in here–liturgical prayer (LOH), lectio divina, charismatic prayer, Marian prayer, etc etc. Each of them even has substyles according to history and so on, ie. Benedictine liturgical prayer, for instance.

 

[iloveangels]

Wow, what a great great post! Thanks so much. Are you all from the same parish? Do you or do some people have a personal spiritual director?

I get the feeling that what you’re really interested in finding is some spiritual direction because of some questions that you have. You might try looking at some of the spiritual direction threads in this forum to find out more about that, or go to: rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/topics/mystical-experience

 

[Julia_Mae]

You said you looked into the OCDS. That’s cool. Have you also looked into the Dominicans or the Benedictine Oblates or the Servites or any of the others? There are quite a few, and even more if you include associates to congregations.

Check thread title.

 

[iloveangels]

Can you say more about this? About how you feel you changed in your own thinking and feeling, especially as contrasted to the prevailing culture? Or to how you were before?

And if you really are interested in more of an intensive 1st person understanding of the 3rd order Franciscan life, then you should contact your local fraternity.

I know I’m repeating, but no one can vicariously do this for you. If you’re interested, calling the fraternity is what you do so that you can talk to someone there and maybe experience it for yourself. If you’re just sharing, then there’s only so much you will be able to get online in a faceless forum like this. That’s about it.

Meanwhile these threads have been very informative and helpful for many of us, in determining some concrete things about third orders, like what rules and constitutions they use, and so on. Very good survey of the topic, explanatory and hard to find. Thank you for starting this thread.

 

[iloveangels]

Check thread title.

Check post above this one.